It Evens Itself Out Over A Season - The Ref's A ****

[DubaiSpur]

It'll even itself out. One day. Perhaps we're getting all the bad luck of the next one thousand years out of the way now, and it'll all be plain sailing from here on in.

 

[yiddo2786]

How can there be any debate? That ball is clearly not over the line.

 

[chicken_badge]

Thanks for your input chaps!
Here's the message I've just sent to the FA via their comments page, and also Mike Riley:

As a supporter of Tottenham Hotspur I have become increasingly frustrated by the exceptionally poor refereeing witnessed in games involving my team, the vast majority of which do not go in our favour. I'm not talking about 50/50 decisions which just don't go our way. I'm talking about big calls, in big games, which drastically change the balance within the match, and which are due to exceptionally poor judgement.

We're talking about things of the calibre of Clattenburg-at-Old-Trafford (you know, Mendes goals that that are a few feet over the line, that sort of thing). But specifically, situations that have arisen this year - I could delve into a rich history with Webb et al but to be honest, this season is more than enough to go on. Yesterday's appaling decision regarding Juan Mata's "goal" is not the only example.

Emirates Marketing Project (PL, away). The country's best referee, Howard Webb, fails to spot Mario Balotelli kick Scott Parker in the head. Right in front of him. Remains on the pitch, scores the winning goal with the last kick of the match. Balotelli later banned by the FA for 3 matches.

Stoke (PL, away). Quite possibly the worst officiating of an entire match this season by Chris Foy. I'm sure I don't need to go in to detail but the highlights would be: Adebayor wrongly adjudged to be offside after scoring (goal disallowed); Crouch handballs to set up Stoke goal (unpunished), Shawcross handballs Kaboul shot on the line (unpunished, no penalty, no red card). Kaboul challenges Foy about this decision who books him for his disrespectful behaviour. A shame, as Kaboul did have a valid question, even if his manner does contravene the "Respect" agenda. Since I cannot be booked, I would like to enquire whether or not Foy has yet purchased his clearly, desperately needed spectacles?

These three would probably be amongst THE most widely acknowledged examples of diabolical refereeing seen this season. But on top of that, there have been frequent big decisions that have been made incorrectly against Spurs:

* Wolverhapton Wanderers (PL, home). Adebayor wrongly judged offside again. He has had three legitimate goals ruled out this season in this manner.

* Chelsea (PL, home). Ashley Cole deliberately handballs in assist to Chelsea goal.

* Manchester United (PL, home). Adebayor scores but penalised for handball. The rules are not clear on this, but the lack of consistency from referees is, when Spurs are in the reverse position the following week but the goal scored against stands.

Of course, the usual cliche in response to this is: "well, its all swings and roundabouts, it all evens out in the end". Which leads me to thinking about the big, blatantly poor decisions that have gone in favour of Spurs this season.

And I'm struggling.

The worst decision to have gone in our favour was the sending off of Cahill by Attwell (Bolton, PL). Possibly not as crucial a decision as above, since Spurs were comfortably leading against a team who appeared to be significantly behind in terms of form and performance at the time. But, it is fair to say that it is an example of an incredibily bad piece of refereeing. (It's interesting to note that despite the equally bad decisions listed previously, Attwell was quickly depatched off to the Football League. No news yet on whether Foy, Webb, Clattenburg or Atkinson are due to be demoted but we live in hope).

Others? Van Der Vaart's "handball" against Arsenal (PL, 2-1 win for Spurs). But you could hardly say it was a glaring error from the ref. Same for the Walker handball against Fulham.

So I'll gladly stick those three decisions against the hat-trick of Adebayor "offisde" goals on your swing and roundabout any day of the week.

There are others, decisions that have gone for/against us but I would say these you could largely put down to the margin of human error. I doubt if there is any other incident that you could raise from any other game involving Tottenham Hotspur from this season which rank with those listed above.

Of course, I am frustrated with the current predicament my team are in. Cruising in a Champions League spot, we have lost a lead to our biggest rivals and are struggling to secure a place in the top 5. We've just crashed out of the FA Cup in embarassing fashion, to another local rival. The majority of the responsibility of this lies with the players and management who, quite frankly, have let their fans down big time. However, the sub-standard refereeing has not helped.

I can afford to attend about one home game a month, and including travel, match tickets and a subscription to Sky Sports I spend a fair amount of my disposable income watching Spurs. I pay to watch them in the FA Premier League, and the FA Cup, I pay to see them compete within the rules and regulations set out by the FA. Respect, Kick Racism Out Of Football, the whole lot. And in return I expect to see a fair contest. It's the hypocrasy that grates right now - you ask for Respect from players, yet why is the Manchester United captain allowed to flap his gums in the face of the referee at every big decision that might be going against his team? Where is the Respect from another England International who is seen on national television racially abusing a fellow professional, while he is not sleeping with the wife of a teammate? And where is the Respect from referees to fans, who maintain a wall of silence against people like me, when his disgraceful decisions mean that I have wasted my time and money watching a blatantly unfair contest.

In my job, if I made the consistent level of bad, big decisions in a year highlighted above...... well, I'd have lost my job by now. And probably would be unemployable for years to come.

So, what would I expect you to do about it? In short, sort it out because I don't want to endure any of this rubbish any longer from Atkinson, Clattenburg, Foy, Webb. How? To be honest, that's your problem and I really really hope you are dealing with it. But here's a few ideas.

Firstly, these people need to be allowed - no, instructed - to justify some of their decisions after a game. In the same way that you have finally managed to get Sir Alex to talk to the BBC again (bravo by the way) then the refs should have some clear and public voice after the game. It doesnt need to be an interview, but I expect people like Foy to watch the entire game, replays and all, within 24 hours and respond on anything controversial. To be honest, big decisions should be turned around within the hour after the game. It would help a lot to be able to see that these people are not the arrogant, self-rightous individuals they are percieved to be.

Secondly, greater honesty and profesionalism needs to be fostered from players. This would come from a campaign designed to raise respect amongst players. Sounds a good idea? Please don't confuse this with the "Respect" agenda, I'm suggesting a campaign that would actually mean something. Rather than just words. What use is it that Lampard and Terry come out after a game to say they knew a referee made a mistake? Just highlights their own dishonesty. Why can't players do this in-game? And please, please, abolish this ridiculous rule that if a referee books a player then you are powerless to act upon it. You make the rules for crying out loud. Bad tackles, dives, elbows - these need to be punished hard.

But back to the referees. If these people are not good enough, they should be demoted. And what's wrong with getting more of the Football League officals into the Premiership? Better training, a higher turn-over, and you will undoubtedly start to see more young refs coming through at grass-roots level. Finally, when you do get examples of severely poor decision making, please keep those people away from my club for the rest of the season. You have your own assessments, and I'm quite sure that all of the points I made above are written in someones little black book somewhere in the FA. Why should we have to run the risk of another shocking error from the likes of Foy or Atkinson this season? They have robbed us once, keep them away and give us another of your trained referees.

Goal mouth officials is another route available to the richest league in the world and it is baffling why this is not being utilised. I recall one instance in a Europa League match at White Hart Lane this winter when initially it appeared that Spurs were on the end of a bad decision. However, TV replays later showed that a goal-line offical made a brave, firm and crucial call. It was superb officiating, and a resource which can only help the referee. Of course, that assumes that the lead official is willing to consult his assistants, which is not always the case in the Premier League.

 

[chicken_badge]

So far, I haven't talked about goal-line technology. That discussion is currently above the FA - though it was great to hear your Media rep on the radio talk about how it came to your attention after the Lampard "goal" in the 2010 World Cup.... five years after Mendes, but still at least the FA seem to be catching up. Anyway, it's largely irrelevant to the points I'm making... to be honest I cannot see how a camera in the net would help Webb spot Balotelli boot Parker in the head from a yard away. Maybe you can get FIFA to allow you to use video playback, I don't know. Can only be a positive thing, so good luck with that. But in the mean time, I'd really appreciate it if you would get to work with the officals we have and train them just that little bit better, perhaps taking some steps to start to make them feel more human and less ego.

Mistakes happen, but there have been far, far too many this year and as far as I'm concerned the worst of which have directly ruined my enjoyment of this season. Any Spurs fan will tell you that disappointment is what we expect in life.... but for us this should come from our team and not a man in black who should be nothing but anonymous for 90 minutes.

Thank you for your time.

Will post any reply I get

 

[talljoe]

I just wonder if other team's supporters feel they get cheated too. I watch plenty of games on TV and haven't seen anything like as many stone bonker bad decisions as those against Spurs.

We 'beat' Stoke and should have another three points from that game. We 'drew' Emirates Marketing Project, one point. We 'won' against Wolves,two points.

That's six points we EARNED but were denied. Now look at how the league table should look.

Just too many bad decisions going back to Mendes goal, Gomes' foul on (?) Man U when he clearly got the ball. And so on. I'm fed up with it. Time for justice, video replay is easy and quick, and if we lose a few points along the way so be it. I want to win, lose or draw fairly. No excuses.

We pay plenty and we deserve accurate refereeing and a league table that reflects our teams ability, not some referees inability.

TJ

 

[Rorschach]

It'll even itself out. One day. Perhaps we're getting all the bad luck of the next one thousand years out of the way now, and it'll all be plain sailing from here on in.

I'd take some of that luck in the final 5 games this season if it means CL.

 

[Hootnow]

So did the decision cause Walker and King's terrible defending for their third goal? Or Cudicini's positioning for the 4th? Or Redknapp's terrible decision to take off VDV for Defoe?

 

[africanspurs]

So did the decision cause Walker and King's terrible defending for their third goal? Or Cudicini's positioning for the 4th? Or Redknapp's terrible decision to take off VDV for Defoe?

maybe

goals can deflae the fight and character of players

look at us against united that year when conceeded the penalty that never was....total break down afterwards.

n

 

[Robbo]

If we had lost 2:1 we could have maintained the moral high ground despite defeat, but loosing 5:1? WTF

Being 2-0 (then 2-1) down forced us to make tactical changes that we might not have made had the scoreline been 1-1. Taking off VDV for Defoe made us more vulnerable in midfield, which allowed Chelski more space, which was a deciding factor in the 3-1 goal, IMO. 4-1 and 5-1 came as a consequence of us giving up, which of course we shouldn't have done. If the 3-1 goal was the 2-1 goal (which it should have been as the third legitimate goal of the match), it wouldn't have been as much of a blow as a 3-1 goal.

Also, if the score had been 1-1 instead of 2-1 for Chelski, they wouldn't have been time wasting as much as they did.

Of course, had the non-goal not been allowed, Bale might not have scored what would have then been the equaliser. But after the first half, with us being on par (if not a little better) than Chelski, I don't see why we shouldn't have been able to put enough pressure on Chelski to equalize. After all, we had the best chances in the first half.

Instead Chelski get the 2-0 "goal", at a crucial time four minutes into the second half, which gave them breathing space and changed everything for us.

Had it been a legitimate goal, it would've been fine. But the fact is, Atkinsons fudged up big time, and his shocking decision changed the course of the game. That is undeniable.

We might still have lost the game. But a bad call from the referee changed the circumstances dramatically, and to say that decision didn't have an impact on the momentum of the game, shows a lack of understanding of the mechanisms of a game of football, IMO. (this not a dig at you, NaijaSpurs)

 

[Hootnow]

maybe

goals can deflae the fight and character of players

look at us against united that year when conceeded the penalty that never was....total break down afterwards.

n

But is it a coincidence that this exact thing happens to us so often?

I hate to use the example again but Norwich, away to a significantly better team, get denied a clear penalty when they're 1-0 up. Exactly 46 seconds later, its 1-1, a Defoe goal.

In that situation, do you think we would have gone on to win at OT, Stamford Bridge, Emirates, as Norwich did? Or would we have collapsed like we so often do? Then we'd all have been on here, fudging bent refs, give all the decisions to the bigger teams. Well, a couple of weeks ago, we got the decision, as the bigger team. And we stil lost.

At the Emirates, we get a penalty from a Bale dive. We're 2-0 up, with an injustice. Arsenal's confidence is shaken, if it stays like that, we're 13 points ahead of them. They've just been beaten 2-0 and 4-0 in the cups the week before. What do they do? Trounce us 5-2.

Its so easy to just blame the ref after decisions like that.

That game also had one of the worst tackles I've ever seen from Palacios btw, when it was 0-0. Ronaldo was lucky he managed to jump out of the way. I think you'll agree that playing with 10 men at OT probably wouldn't have allowed us to go 2-0 up in the first place. But Man utd got over it, went 2 goals down and then absolutely trounced us.

 

[Monkey boy]

But is it a coincidence that this exact thing happens to us so often?

I hate to use the example again but Norwich, away to a significantly better team, get denied a clear penalty when they're 1-0 up. Exactly 46 seconds later, its 1-1, a Defoe goal.

In that situation, do you think we would have gone on to win at OT, Stamford Bridge, Emirates, as Norwich did? Or would we have collapsed like we so often do? Then we'd all have been on here, fudging bent refs, give all the decisions to the bigger teams. Well, a couple of weeks ago, we got the decision, as the bigger team. And we stil lost.

At the Emirates, we get a penalty from a Bale dive. We're 2-0 up, with an injustice. Arsenal's confidence is shaken, if it stays like that, we're 13 points ahead of them. They've just been beaten 2-0 and 4-0 in the cups the week before. What do they do? Trounce us 5-2.

Its so easy to just blame the ref after decisions like that.

That game also had one of the worst tackles I've ever seen from Palacios btw, when it was 0-0. Ronaldo was lucky he managed to jump out of the way. I think you'll agree that playing with 10 men at OT probably wouldn't have allowed us to go 2-0 up in the first place. But Man utd got over it, went 2 goals down and then absolutely trounced us.

Exactly my point but put in a much better way. I hate this victim mentality we've developed. Only Stoke away this season should be sighted as a refereeing performance truly costing us.

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

I just wonder if other team's supporters feel they get cheated too. I watch plenty of games on TV and haven't seen anything like as many stone bonker bad decisions as those against Spurs.

We 'beat' Stoke and should have another three points from that game. We 'drew' Emirates Marketing Project, one point. We 'won' against Wolves,two points.

That's six points we EARNED but were denied. Now look at how the league table should look.

Just too many bad decisions going back to Mendes goal, Gomes' foul on (?) Man U when he clearly got the ball. And so on. I'm fed up with it. Time for justice, video replay is easy and quick, and if we lose a few points along the way so be it. I want to win, lose or draw fairly. No excuses.

We pay plenty and we deserve accurate refereeing and a league table that reflects our teams ability, not some referees inability.

TJ

Carrick.

left his leg in, not as bad but not unlike Ashley Young.

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

Will post any reply I get

Tell you what I'd like to see - the stills of the Mendes and Mata goals, the stills of Ade's onside goals that were given off... i don't know why - just to wind myself up i suppose.

 

[1882]

Tell you what I'd like to see - the stills of the Mendes and Mata goals, the stills of Ade's onside goals that were given off... i don't know why - just to wind myself up i suppose.

Careful what you wish for...

go on, knock yourself out;

 

[Icelander]

 

[Robbo]

The Mirror: Ten dodgy decisions that prove we need goal-line technology NOW!

Who's involved in three of them, not benefitting from either...? The plot thickens... :-k

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

Careful what you wish for...

go on, knock yourself out;

thank you.

i cannot believe that Ade was given off for that.

](*,)

 

[Rorschach]

The Mirror: Ten dodgy decisions that prove we need goal-line technology NOW!

Who's involved in three of them, not benefitting from either...? The plot thickens... :-k

When you think of all the teams in the football league, the chances that 3 of the worst refereeing blunders happening to the same team has to have monumental odds.

We're cursed I tell ya!!! Lets turn to Yahoo Answers -> How to break a gypsy curse

 

[1882]

thank you.

i cannot believe that Ade was given off for that.

](*,)

I can when Mendes was given 'no-goal' for THAT!!!

Either it's ALL bent, or Refs/linesmen are too brick to cope with the pressures of the modern game... either way, I want an overhaul of how games are judged/viewed...

As someone else said (on here) if it means we DON'T get some decisions that we otherwise might, then so be it... i'd rather lose points to decisions that are at least CORRECT than to be left feeling cheated and clutching at straws of corruption and conspiracy at decisions that fudging HELEN KELLER COULD'VE SEEN!

Unless the FA/FIFA really ARE corrupt to the core, and are under the wing of the Top 4 of each country, and obviously have TOO MUCH MONEY TO LOSE by tinkling them off if they actually give fair and correct decisions, then prove us all wrong and let TECHNOLOGY DECIDE...

anyways... I've got a fudging brick-hot theory that some of the - shall we say - curious results THIS season and Sky/ESPN's contribution to making sure the end of the season stays wide open for as long as possible to generate interest... but that's just my wild ranting theories that the whole of football's fudged and corrupt... I'm sure Wigan can beat Man Utd & ArseAnal at any given moment in their season... least of all when they actually NEED to and keep the title race wide open, (Emirates Marketing Project v Man Utd NEEDS TO MEAN SOMETHING by the time it's played on SKY) as well as the race for 3rd/4th interesting, and not forgetting the relegation scrap!!

 

[yiddo2786]

thank you.

i cannot believe that Ade was given off for that.

](*,)

Even worse; that's AFTER the ball has been played