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The Longest Thread Of Football (The Other Teams)
- Thread starter NaijaSpurs
- Start date
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
Re: Uli Höness on Bayern Munich's season ticket prices
I struggled to buy into the 'our league is the strongest' hype even when English teams were routinely competing in all-English finals, to be honest. For me, the strength of the league is in the home-grown talent it produces, the strength of the supporter experiences and availability of tickets, the equity of distribution of talent across the participating clubs, and its unpredictability. The level of talent on the field, and the money in the league, is secondary to those preliminary factors.
If you evaluate the competing leagues (La Liga, Serie A, Ligue Un, The Premier League and the Bundesliga) using that approach, it quickly becomes apparent that Germany is searing ahead and leaving the rest far behind. Ranked from fifth to first, the state of the various leagues looks like this:
5) In Serie A, the decline of the supporter experience and the series of ongoing sporting scandals, coupled with its loss of a CL place and relative opacity when it comes to governance and accountability, have pushed the league into a state of near-continuous decline that will continue until a widespread revolution occurs that forces clubs to model themselves on the new Juve (club-owned stadium, smart commercial deals, etcetera). In addition, the Italian reluctance to give youth a chance (the clubs are notoriously focused on 'experience' to the relative detriment of ability) means a lot of home-grown talent is wasted, restricting the ability of the clubs to compete with the rest of the continent.
4)In La Liga, the massive inequality between the top two and everybody else is slowly killing the league, with more and more clubs going under and accruing grossly unsustainable debts in order to compete with Barca and Madrid. Home-grown talent is present, but is sold abroad to raise much-needed revenue, which hurts the league as a whole.
3)In the Premier League, the gross lack of homegrown talent emerging through the ranks has forced the clubs to look abroad, and once that happens you see a destructive spiral whereby foreign talents are accrued by the top clubs and used to further their own dominance, which forces the smaller clubs to look abroad to compete, which lessens the opportunities for home-grown players even further. Coupled with the lack of a coherent youth strategy on a national level, the end result is that clubs are forced into a spending game, unable to raise a team based mainly off local, home-grown players (due to the lack of ability among these boys when compared to better-developed products of foreign youth academies) , which automatically drastically restricts the ability to compete with the richest clubs. The only way they can hope to compete (without a sugar-daddy) is by raising ticket prices to ludicrous levels, which results in poorer supporter atmospheres as many people become unable to afford the cost of going to matches. Make no mistake: the one thing keeping the PL artificially afloat is its access to the massive emerging Asian fanbases. That alone is a huge revenue generator, which enables the PL to continue this spending-based competition in lieu of any proper youth generation, local support-building or genuine competition (witness the relative stability of the top four from 2002 to 2010, and the diversity of the winners of the last fifteen PL titles) by securing massive TV and sponsorship deals that dwarf their continental rivals.
2) In Ligue Un, a lot of the basic tools for a great league are present: they produce a lot of home-grown talent, their fan bases are vocal and generally supported by club efforts to keep ticket prices in line with economic realities, and there is a certain diversity among the recent title winners (Marseille, Lille, Montpellier and likely PSG this season, after a long period of OL domination) and European competitors. However, they are still hampered by the high tax rates imposed by the government and by their lack of TV/commercial clout when compared to the Bundesliga or the PL, which can be explained by poor marketing of the appeal of the league and by the continuing trend of the PL and other leagues seizing upon the French league's weakness and snatching away its best talents every year. However, if the taxation issues ease off, I can see the French league massively improving its status, as the money paid for the likes of Benzema, Hazard et al has been re-invested into their youth academies and stadiums (See OL and Lille for examples), which will improve the league's vitality in the long-run and enable it to hold on to its best players for longer periods, which can only be a good thing.
1) Bundesliga - It's provided low ticket prices, high commercial appeal, and fan-based ownership (Barring a few exceptions like Hoffenheim, Wolfsburg and Bayer Leverkusen). It continues to produce masses of youth talent to replace the increasingly fewer players that choose to depart overseas (Holtby's already been forgotten at Schalke as Draxler, Max Meyer et al step up to the plate, the likes of Bittencourt and Schieber are talents that look capable of replacing Gotze and Lewandowski at Dortmund, etcetera) and has fostered a strong national team as a result. It gives chances to local, German coaches (do you really think a club like Dortmund hiring then Mainz boss Klopp would have happened at, say Spurs? Would we have hired then Southampton-boss Adkins to replace Redknapp?). It invests in youth development and modern, fan-friendly stadiums. The clubs have great atmospheres and it is securing record TV deals and commercial sponsorships across the board despite its lack of an Asian market to appeal to (Bayern and Dortmund not withstanding).And it remains one of the most unpredictable leagues in Europe, with Wolfsburg, Dortmund, Werder Bremen, Stuttgart, FC Kaiserslautern and Bayern all winning it in the last decade and a half.
In the long run, its success feels sustainable, independent of a possible collapse of Asian interest, a sudden flight of sugar-daddies or an economic downturn that forces clubs with high ticket prices to witness increasingly empty stadiums. The abundance of youth talent has enabled clubs to spend less on recruiting expensive foreign players, which has allowed them to keep ticket prices low and invest in facilities. This has allowed fans to experience modern amenities at reasonable prices, and has led to incredibly vocal atmospheres at many German stadiums. This looks good on television, and additionally helps the young players perform. Quite possibly under a German coach. This also results in good TV and commercial deals. When a player leaves for big money, the club invests it back into the youth academies or on their good scouting networks. The result is that a lot of talent is spread across a lot of clubs, making the league more competitive and appealing to everyone: TV, commercial sponsors, fans and, in the end, players.
Uli Hoeness is somewhat wrong. The clubs have not kept prices low as a purely altruistic measure. They have done so because a chain of events, starting from an abundance of local talent and ending at ever-increasing TV and commercial deals, has enabled them to reap the rewards of low ticket prices without suffering the ill-effects that would accompany, say, English clubs suddenly lowering their gate revenues in the hyper-competitive, foreign-player based Premier League. The best part is that the German model looks like being a positive spiral: the new TV deals will increase commercial appeal even further, which will allow more investment into youth academies and infrastructure (as well as better foreign buys), which will better the league even further while still keeping ticket prices low, which will lead to great atmospheres, which results in better TV exposure, which leads to better deals, etcetera.
We, on the other hand, need to look at where this endless spending on foreign players, this neglect of our national youth production and this pricing out of the majority of fans amid the reliance on sugar-daddies will leave us. Nowhere good, is my guess. The Asian bubble will not last forever: other sports, other leagues and other entertainment ventures have wised up to the potential of these emerging masses of newly-enriched humanity. The era of PL domination of Asian interest will eventually end. And then, without our artificially inflated revenue streams, I wonder where we will be.
I struggled to buy into the 'our league is the strongest' hype even when English teams were routinely competing in all-English finals, to be honest. For me, the strength of the league is in the home-grown talent it produces, the strength of the supporter experiences and availability of tickets, the equity of distribution of talent across the participating clubs, and its unpredictability. The level of talent on the field, and the money in the league, is secondary to those preliminary factors.
If you evaluate the competing leagues (La Liga, Serie A, Ligue Un, The Premier League and the Bundesliga) using that approach, it quickly becomes apparent that Germany is searing ahead and leaving the rest far behind. Ranked from fifth to first, the state of the various leagues looks like this:
5) In Serie A, the decline of the supporter experience and the series of ongoing sporting scandals, coupled with its loss of a CL place and relative opacity when it comes to governance and accountability, have pushed the league into a state of near-continuous decline that will continue until a widespread revolution occurs that forces clubs to model themselves on the new Juve (club-owned stadium, smart commercial deals, etcetera). In addition, the Italian reluctance to give youth a chance (the clubs are notoriously focused on 'experience' to the relative detriment of ability) means a lot of home-grown talent is wasted, restricting the ability of the clubs to compete with the rest of the continent.
4)In La Liga, the massive inequality between the top two and everybody else is slowly killing the league, with more and more clubs going under and accruing grossly unsustainable debts in order to compete with Barca and Madrid. Home-grown talent is present, but is sold abroad to raise much-needed revenue, which hurts the league as a whole.
3)In the Premier League, the gross lack of homegrown talent emerging through the ranks has forced the clubs to look abroad, and once that happens you see a destructive spiral whereby foreign talents are accrued by the top clubs and used to further their own dominance, which forces the smaller clubs to look abroad to compete, which lessens the opportunities for home-grown players even further. Coupled with the lack of a coherent youth strategy on a national level, the end result is that clubs are forced into a spending game, unable to raise a team based mainly off local, home-grown players (due to the lack of ability among these boys when compared to better-developed products of foreign youth academies) , which automatically drastically restricts the ability to compete with the richest clubs. The only way they can hope to compete (without a sugar-daddy) is by raising ticket prices to ludicrous levels, which results in poorer supporter atmospheres as many people become unable to afford the cost of going to matches. Make no mistake: the one thing keeping the PL artificially afloat is its access to the massive emerging Asian fanbases. That alone is a huge revenue generator, which enables the PL to continue this spending-based competition in lieu of any proper youth generation, local support-building or genuine competition (witness the relative stability of the top four from 2002 to 2010, and the diversity of the winners of the last fifteen PL titles) by securing massive TV and sponsorship deals that dwarf their continental rivals.
2) In Ligue Un, a lot of the basic tools for a great league are present: they produce a lot of home-grown talent, their fan bases are vocal and generally supported by club efforts to keep ticket prices in line with economic realities, and there is a certain diversity among the recent title winners (Marseille, Lille, Montpellier and likely PSG this season, after a long period of OL domination) and European competitors. However, they are still hampered by the high tax rates imposed by the government and by their lack of TV/commercial clout when compared to the Bundesliga or the PL, which can be explained by poor marketing of the appeal of the league and by the continuing trend of the PL and other leagues seizing upon the French league's weakness and snatching away its best talents every year. However, if the taxation issues ease off, I can see the French league massively improving its status, as the money paid for the likes of Benzema, Hazard et al has been re-invested into their youth academies and stadiums (See OL and Lille for examples), which will improve the league's vitality in the long-run and enable it to hold on to its best players for longer periods, which can only be a good thing.
1) Bundesliga - It's provided low ticket prices, high commercial appeal, and fan-based ownership (Barring a few exceptions like Hoffenheim, Wolfsburg and Bayer Leverkusen). It continues to produce masses of youth talent to replace the increasingly fewer players that choose to depart overseas (Holtby's already been forgotten at Schalke as Draxler, Max Meyer et al step up to the plate, the likes of Bittencourt and Schieber are talents that look capable of replacing Gotze and Lewandowski at Dortmund, etcetera) and has fostered a strong national team as a result. It gives chances to local, German coaches (do you really think a club like Dortmund hiring then Mainz boss Klopp would have happened at, say Spurs? Would we have hired then Southampton-boss Adkins to replace Redknapp?). It invests in youth development and modern, fan-friendly stadiums. The clubs have great atmospheres and it is securing record TV deals and commercial sponsorships across the board despite its lack of an Asian market to appeal to (Bayern and Dortmund not withstanding).And it remains one of the most unpredictable leagues in Europe, with Wolfsburg, Dortmund, Werder Bremen, Stuttgart, FC Kaiserslautern and Bayern all winning it in the last decade and a half.
In the long run, its success feels sustainable, independent of a possible collapse of Asian interest, a sudden flight of sugar-daddies or an economic downturn that forces clubs with high ticket prices to witness increasingly empty stadiums. The abundance of youth talent has enabled clubs to spend less on recruiting expensive foreign players, which has allowed them to keep ticket prices low and invest in facilities. This has allowed fans to experience modern amenities at reasonable prices, and has led to incredibly vocal atmospheres at many German stadiums. This looks good on television, and additionally helps the young players perform. Quite possibly under a German coach. This also results in good TV and commercial deals. When a player leaves for big money, the club invests it back into the youth academies or on their good scouting networks. The result is that a lot of talent is spread across a lot of clubs, making the league more competitive and appealing to everyone: TV, commercial sponsors, fans and, in the end, players.
Uli Hoeness is somewhat wrong. The clubs have not kept prices low as a purely altruistic measure. They have done so because a chain of events, starting from an abundance of local talent and ending at ever-increasing TV and commercial deals, has enabled them to reap the rewards of low ticket prices without suffering the ill-effects that would accompany, say, English clubs suddenly lowering their gate revenues in the hyper-competitive, foreign-player based Premier League. The best part is that the German model looks like being a positive spiral: the new TV deals will increase commercial appeal even further, which will allow more investment into youth academies and infrastructure (as well as better foreign buys), which will better the league even further while still keeping ticket prices low, which will lead to great atmospheres, which results in better TV exposure, which leads to better deals, etcetera.
We, on the other hand, need to look at where this endless spending on foreign players, this neglect of our national youth production and this pricing out of the majority of fans amid the reliance on sugar-daddies will leave us. Nowhere good, is my guess. The Asian bubble will not last forever: other sports, other leagues and other entertainment ventures have wised up to the potential of these emerging masses of newly-enriched humanity. The era of PL domination of Asian interest will eventually end. And then, without our artificially inflated revenue streams, I wonder where we will be.
jts1882
Dean Richards
Re: Uli Höness on Bayern Munich's season ticket prices
Good analysis, although I'm not sure about the French. I'm also not so pessimistic on the sustainability of the PL model. Despite the economic crisis and ridiculous prices by historical standards attendances and matchday revenue has stayed high. It might hurt clubs like Wigan but they could be replaced by a bigger club like Leeds.
I wonder how this would relate to interest in a European superleague. I think the Spanish duo and Italian trio would be keen. The breakaway would hurt their domestic leagues, although possibly make them more interesting. German clubs may be less interested. They have a more competitive league and the cut-off for clubs joining the superleague is not so obvious - it would be Bayern and a varying cast. Even if Bayern left they would have a very strong league. The PL probably falls between the two categories. United and Liverpool might be keen on a breakaway, but I'm not so sure about the others.
Good analysis, although I'm not sure about the French. I'm also not so pessimistic on the sustainability of the PL model. Despite the economic crisis and ridiculous prices by historical standards attendances and matchday revenue has stayed high. It might hurt clubs like Wigan but they could be replaced by a bigger club like Leeds.
I wonder how this would relate to interest in a European superleague. I think the Spanish duo and Italian trio would be keen. The breakaway would hurt their domestic leagues, although possibly make them more interesting. German clubs may be less interested. They have a more competitive league and the cut-off for clubs joining the superleague is not so obvious - it would be Bayern and a varying cast. Even if Bayern left they would have a very strong league. The PL probably falls between the two categories. United and Liverpool might be keen on a breakaway, but I'm not so sure about the others.
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jts1882
Dean Richards
Re: Uli Höness on Bayern Munich's season ticket prices
http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-Azerbaijan/Local Assets/Documents/footballmoneyleague2013.pdf
Chart on p9, with club summaries on following pages.
Bayern just edge out Real and Barcelona on commercial (absolute and percentage). I'm surprised that United are so far behind that trio.
But the real difference can be seen when comparing us to Dortmund and Schalke. For that bracket (rank 11-20) the Germans are way ahead on commercial revenue, just as we are way ahead on matchday (despite much smaller stadium). Both have more than Arsenal and Chelsea as well.
http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-Azerbaijan/Local Assets/Documents/footballmoneyleague2013.pdf
Chart on p9, with club summaries on following pages.
Bayern just edge out Real and Barcelona on commercial (absolute and percentage). I'm surprised that United are so far behind that trio.
But the real difference can be seen when comparing us to Dortmund and Schalke. For that bracket (rank 11-20) the Germans are way ahead on commercial revenue, just as we are way ahead on matchday (despite much smaller stadium). Both have more than Arsenal and Chelsea as well.
Baleforce
Ron Henry
Re: Uli Höness on Bayern Munich's season ticket prices
interesting, United are bringing in far less than I would have expected from sponsorship, i'm sure these numbers are right but I had it in my head that they were making far more due to all the stories about official car providers in the far east and training ground naming deals
interesting, United are bringing in far less than I would have expected from sponsorship, i'm sure these numbers are right but I had it in my head that they were making far more due to all the stories about official car providers in the far east and training ground naming deals
monkeybarry
Ian Walker
Re: Uli Höness on Bayern Munich's season ticket prices
but people have choice, they don't have to (i no longer do)
and what of those that can't? quite simply, they can't consume live football at their club.
bottom line is, like it or not, football is a product. the best way affect price of a product and change the market equilibrium is to reduce the demand, forcing the supplier to either withdraw from the market or lower price.
i hate the high prices as much as anyone and i now get my live football fix from going to see St Albans (might also start watching Luton a bit), but i sick of fans moaning about high prices but then coughing up the money. if you want change, MAKE IT HAPPEN.
but people have choice, they don't have to (i no longer do)
and what of those that can't? quite simply, they can't consume live football at their club.
bottom line is, like it or not, football is a product. the best way affect price of a product and change the market equilibrium is to reduce the demand, forcing the supplier to either withdraw from the market or lower price.
i hate the high prices as much as anyone and i now get my live football fix from going to see St Albans (might also start watching Luton a bit), but i sick of fans moaning about high prices but then coughing up the money. if you want change, MAKE IT HAPPEN.
Re: Uli Höness on Bayern Munich's season ticket prices
Don't expect Indian money to come anywhere near football, the I-league has no sponsor, average crowds of under 4,000 and since it was formed in 2007 two clubs have folded due to financial issues. Now compare that with the IPL Cricket and you'll see India doesn't really give a s**t about football.
Don't expect Indian money to come anywhere near football, the I-league has no sponsor, average crowds of under 4,000 and since it was formed in 2007 two clubs have folded due to financial issues. Now compare that with the IPL Cricket and you'll see India doesn't really give a s**t about football.
jts1882
Dean Richards
Re: Uli Höness on Bayern Munich's season ticket prices
That surprised me, too. I knew Bayern topped the list but had assumed United would be right there with the Spanish duo.
United have been signing lots of small deals - Telecoms in Nigeria, Official Fish Sauce in Vietnam, etc - as well as the headline deals over the last few years. It's possible they hadn't started for the year of those numbers (2011-12). Or it could just be that the media oversensationalize the United deals.
That surprised me, too. I knew Bayern topped the list but had assumed United would be right there with the Spanish duo.
United have been signing lots of small deals - Telecoms in Nigeria, Official Fish Sauce in Vietnam, etc - as well as the headline deals over the last few years. It's possible they hadn't started for the year of those numbers (2011-12). Or it could just be that the media oversensationalize the United deals.
jts1882
Dean Richards
Re: Uli Höness on Bayern Munich's season ticket prices
I find it interesting/funny/deluded that many United supporters are praising the Glazers now for all the commercial success, while complaining that Fergie hasn't bought a central midfielder. Yet United were always the pioneers of the commercial drive - under Kenyon and Gill before the Glazers - so I don't see them doing anything that they probably wouldn't have done under Gill without the Glazers. You have to wonder what United could have done with a fraction of the £500 million they have spent on interest and fees; even after generous shareholder dividends that's useful money.
I find it interesting/funny/deluded that many United supporters are praising the Glazers now for all the commercial success, while complaining that Fergie hasn't bought a central midfielder. Yet United were always the pioneers of the commercial drive - under Kenyon and Gill before the Glazers - so I don't see them doing anything that they probably wouldn't have done under Gill without the Glazers. You have to wonder what United could have done with a fraction of the £500 million they have spent on interest and fees; even after generous shareholder dividends that's useful money.
Re: Uli Höness on Bayern Munich's season ticket prices
Remember that the figures are for 2011-12.
Many of Utd's commercial deals didn't start until the 2012-13 accounting year.
And the massive deals with Chevrolet (shirt sponsorship) and AON (training ground / gear) haven't kicked in yet. Wait a couple of years and Utd's commercial income will be right up there once again.
Remember that the figures are for 2011-12.
Many of Utd's commercial deals didn't start until the 2012-13 accounting year.
And the massive deals with Chevrolet (shirt sponsorship) and AON (training ground / gear) haven't kicked in yet. Wait a couple of years and Utd's commercial income will be right up there once again.
Re: Uli Höness on Bayern Munich's season ticket prices
That's a pretty decent analysis but there are a couple of caveats.
Firstly, you're right that English football has certainly produced very little by way of top quality players over the past ten years or more. But there is light at the end of the tunnel. Things are changing and we will start to see the results within the next 5-10 years.
i) Smaller sided games on smaller pitches will soon become compulsory for most youth age groups. This will encourage a greater emphasis on technique and understanding of space rather than physical attributes.
ii) St George's Park - the FA's new training base will primarily be a production line for coaches. England has long lacked the numbers of coaches enjoyed by countries such as Spain, Germany, France and Holland. St George's Park aims to redress that balance. Moreover, these coaches will be trained to a far higher standard than those currently operating at all levels in the English game.
iii) Elite Player Performance Plan - controversial as it may be (because of the implications for lower league clubs), it will have a positive impact on the coaching of the best young players - principally because they will receive far more hours of coaching per week, from higher quality coaches at academies whose budgets will be dramatically increased.
Secondly, we should not assume that the Asian market is fickle just because it is far away. Emirates Marketing Project, especially, have discovered that it isn't so easy to crack - despite their recent success. The original Sky 4 clubs - and especially Utd and Liverpool - have massive, well entrenched, loyal fan bases in Asian markets. They are not for turning easily, if at all. That's equally a barrier to ambitious Bundesliga clubs as it is to up and coming Premier League clubs. Rest assured, the thirst for Premier League broadcast rights will not be diminishing any time soon.
That's a pretty decent analysis but there are a couple of caveats.
Firstly, you're right that English football has certainly produced very little by way of top quality players over the past ten years or more. But there is light at the end of the tunnel. Things are changing and we will start to see the results within the next 5-10 years.
i) Smaller sided games on smaller pitches will soon become compulsory for most youth age groups. This will encourage a greater emphasis on technique and understanding of space rather than physical attributes.
ii) St George's Park - the FA's new training base will primarily be a production line for coaches. England has long lacked the numbers of coaches enjoyed by countries such as Spain, Germany, France and Holland. St George's Park aims to redress that balance. Moreover, these coaches will be trained to a far higher standard than those currently operating at all levels in the English game.
iii) Elite Player Performance Plan - controversial as it may be (because of the implications for lower league clubs), it will have a positive impact on the coaching of the best young players - principally because they will receive far more hours of coaching per week, from higher quality coaches at academies whose budgets will be dramatically increased.
Secondly, we should not assume that the Asian market is fickle just because it is far away. Emirates Marketing Project, especially, have discovered that it isn't so easy to crack - despite their recent success. The original Sky 4 clubs - and especially Utd and Liverpool - have massive, well entrenched, loyal fan bases in Asian markets. They are not for turning easily, if at all. That's equally a barrier to ambitious Bundesliga clubs as it is to up and coming Premier League clubs. Rest assured, the thirst for Premier League broadcast rights will not be diminishing any time soon.
Re: Uli Höness on Bayern Munich's season ticket prices
United are only just starting to follow the German model of having everything sponsored - the only thing they've said won't be is the stadium. If they sold the name they probably be the highest earner.
United are only just starting to follow the German model of having everything sponsored - the only thing they've said won't be is the stadium. If they sold the name they probably be the highest earner.
mudshark
Chris Armstrong
John Sitton: Player, Manager, Cabbie, Philosopher
What a breath of fresh air he is, and such a shame that he's no longer involved in the game. Absolutely laughed my arse off at the bit about Anton Ferdinand in Part 2.
[video=youtube;ZngrtVF583M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZngrtVF583M[/video]
[video=youtube;9hfGuzt2kPE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hfGuzt2kPE[/video]
[video=youtube;SqGKba7XyEk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqGKba7XyEk[/video]
There's a part 4 as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koKmbgsdwmY
What a breath of fresh air he is, and such a shame that he's no longer involved in the game. Absolutely laughed my arse off at the bit about Anton Ferdinand in Part 2.
[video=youtube;ZngrtVF583M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZngrtVF583M[/video]
[video=youtube;9hfGuzt2kPE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hfGuzt2kPE[/video]
[video=youtube;SqGKba7XyEk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqGKba7XyEk[/video]
There's a part 4 as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koKmbgsdwmY
Disco Benny
Wayne Routledge
Re: John Sitton: Player, Manager, Cabbie, Philosopher
Seen this before, and he wonders why he's no longer involved?! He's like a sweary, football loving David Brent
Seen this before, and he wonders why he's no longer involved?! He's like a sweary, football loving David Brent
OT - Kenwyne Jones
He's not messing around, Whelan left a pigs head in his locker so he bricked his car lol. Pigs head is a tad excessive for a prank really.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...yne-Joness-locker-leaving-striker-fuming.html
He's not messing around, Whelan left a pigs head in his locker so he bricked his car lol. Pigs head is a tad excessive for a prank really.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...yne-Joness-locker-leaving-striker-fuming.html
