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*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur vs Everton ***

I remember a game earlier this season(not sure which one) where quite a few were saying that we should have brought on Townsend and it would have helped us hang on for the end. Everything is re-evaluted based on the final outcome.
 
kanoute16 said:
That so many on here seem content to lose to Everton is beyond me. I thought our approach to this game was awful.
See my earlier posts, I can't be arsed to say it all again!
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Save your energy mate it's wasted on here. Many of the posters have managed to convince themselves that AVB has a cunning masterplan up his sleeve which is eventually going to come good. This blind optimisim then means they don't feel so bad when we lose as pathetically as we did today. Every time we lose there is a justification it's not that we were just not good enough or that we have not been good enough on too many occasions this seaso.n AVB has a way to overcomplicate everything. Something is not right with the squad and the system of play. We can't do simple passing, we are so panicked at the back that we have lost the ability to play the ball out confidently from the back. Posters said AVB handled the Lloris/Friedel thing well I simply cannot agree when our defence is so shocking. The goalkeeper should have been a constant from the beginning.The argument about injured players and the loss of modric is just a weak. Swansea lost Joe Allen and Sigurdsonn but still manage to pass Arsenal off the park in their back yard. Liverpool were missing their only striker and arguably best player and they still won today. It seems to me that AVB is trying different things, today he put on an attacking substitution in Falque, but it is not working perhaps because basics are not right. We are 16 games into the season he needs to sort this otherwise this season will be mid table dissapointment.
 
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Jordinho said:
I remember a game earlier this season(not sure which one) where quite a few were saying that we should have brought on Townsend and it would have helped us hang on for the end. Everything is re-evaluted based on the final outcome.
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hindsight2.jpg
 
Robspur12 said:
Save your energy mate it's wasted on here. Many of the posters have managed to convince themselves that AVB has a cunning masterplan up his sleeve which is eventually going to come good. This blind optimisim then means they don't feel so bad when we lose as pathetically as we did today. Every time we lose there is a justification it's not that we were just not good enough or that we have not been good enough on too many occasions this season as AVB has a way to overcomplicate everything. Something is not right with the squad and the system of play. We can't do simple passing, we are so panicked at the back that we have lost the ability to play the ball out confidently from the back. Posters said AVB handled the Lloris/Friedel thing well I simply cannot agree when our defence is so shocking. The goalkeeper should have been a constant from the beginning.The argument about injured players and the loss of modric is just a weak. Swansea lost Joe Allen and Sigurdsonn but still manage to pass Arsenal off the park in their back yard. Liverpool were missing their only striker and arguably best player and they still won today. It seems to me that AVB is trying different things, today he put on an attacking substitution in Falque, but it is not working perhaps because basics are not right. We are 16 games into the season he needs to sort this otherwise this season will be mid table dissapointment.
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=D>
 
Robspur12 said:
Save your energy mate it's wasted on here. Many of the posters have managed to convince themselves that AVB has a cunning masterplan up his sleeve which is eventually going to come good. This blind optimisim then means they don't feel so bad when we lose as pathetically as we did today. Every time we lose there is a justification it's not that we were just not good enough or that we have not been good enough on too many occasions this seaso.n AVB has a way to overcomplicate everything. Something is not right with the squad and the system of play. We can't do simple passing, we are so panicked at the back that we have lost the ability to play the ball out confidently from the back. Posters said AVB handled the Lloris/Friedel thing well I simply cannot agree when our defence is so shocking. The goalkeeper should have been a constant from the beginning.The argument about injured players and the loss of modric is just a weak. Swansea lost Joe Allen and Sigurdsonn but still manage to pass Arsenal off the park in their back yard. Liverpool were missing their only striker and arguably best player and they still won today. It seems to me that AVB is trying different things, today he put on an attacking substitution in Falque, but it is not working perhaps because basics are not right. We are 16 games into the season he needs to sort this otherwise this season will be mid table dissapointment.
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Not sure if serious..


I haven't thought he has had a master plan up his sleeve, i have been watching games and seeing how we have been playing and the results we have been getting

Not being good enough is a fact not a justification. We lost, therefore we did not play well enough.

Thinking he handled the Lloris/Freidel thing well, doesn't mean i think our defence has been awesome.


Swansea managed to play them off the park because that is how a system works, AVB is trying to work us into a system, albeit a different system, which will mean it will affect us far less when a big player leaves.


Modric leaving not a big thing? The player that instigated a large majority of our play leaving and the team is supposed to be just as good?

Granted suarez is out, however Suarez doesn't keep Liverpool ticking. THe midfield keeps them ticking. Comparing suarez's contributions at Pool and Modric's in our team is such a waste of time.



Lastly, if the basics are not right is that entirely AVB's fault? These are premiership players, they should be able to do the basics before they even get to the stadium for training.


We are 16 games into the season. On the same points as fourth, challenging for fourth, I don't expect that to change from what i've seen this season.
 
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Robspur12 said:
Save your energy mate it's wasted on here. Many of the posters have managed to convince themselves that AVB has a cunning masterplan up his sleeve which is eventually going to come good. This blind optimisim then means they don't feel so bad when we lose as pathetically as we did today. Every time we lose there is a justification it's not that we were just not good enough or that we have not been good enough on too many occasions this seaso.n AVB has a way to overcomplicate everything. Something is not right with the squad and the system of play. We can't do simple passing, we are so panicked at the back that we have lost the ability to play the ball out confidently from the back. Posters said AVB handled the Lloris/Friedel thing well I simply cannot agree when our defence is so shocking. The goalkeeper should have been a constant from the beginning.The argument about injured players and the loss of modric is just a weak. Swansea lost Joe Allen and Sigurdsonn but still manage to pass Arsenal off the park in their back yard. Liverpool were missing their only striker and arguably best player and they still won today. It seems to me that AVB is trying different things, today he put on an attacking substitution in Falque, but it is not working perhaps because basics are not right. We are 16 games into the season he needs to sort this otherwise this season will be mid table dissapointment.
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Or those that weren't thrilled about AVB in the first place are highlighting every little thing that went wrong to create a feeling of impending disaster?

This mid table, is that the places the top 3 and the bottom 3?
 
Jurgen the German said:
A bit of both I think Jordinho.
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Well, I don't think this one loss have suddenly changed everything. Our performances have been slowly improving, though it's far from where we want it to be, and we're picking up points. Were' joint 4th, 3 points of 3rd, and we're through to the next round of the EL. We've just had a very tough run, both in terms of opponents and number of games.

We now have just two games before Christmas. This should give them a chance to rest a little and improve both fitness and tactics wise before our 3 games in one week over the holidays. Five games where we are more than capable of picking up wins. Then comes the transfer window.
 
Spursalot said:
Not sure if serious..


I haven't thought he has had a master plan up his sleeve, i have been watching games and seeing how we have been playing and the results we have been getting

Not being good enough is a fact not a justification. We lost, therefore we did not play well enough.

Thinking he handled the Lloris/Freidel thing well, doesn't mean i think our defence has been awesome.


Swansea managed to play them off the park because that is how a system works, AVB is trying to work us into a system, albeit a different system, which will mean it will affect us far less when a big player leaves.


Modric leaving not a big thing? The player that instigated a large majority of our play leaving and the team is supposed to be just as good?

Granted suarez is out, however Suarez doesn't keep Liverpool ticking. THe midfield keeps them ticking. Comparing suarez's contributions at Pool and Modric's in our team is such a waste of time.



Lastly, if the basics are not right is that entirely AVB's fault? These are premiership players, they should be able to do the basics before they even get to the stadium for training.


We are 16 games into the season. On the same points as fourth, challenging for fourth, I don't expect that to change from what i've seen this season.
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I'm glad you gave a more detailed response to RobSpurs post.

I wanted to ask a bit more about the bolded bits near the end. In a way it is true that PL players should get the basics right; but assuming they did get the basics right under the previous regime, then if they have started to not get the basics right under this regime doesn't the finger of blame or a least questions being asked have to come the way of the cureent regime?

You assume we can lost 6 games in every 16 games we play and still get fourth? I'm sure if the ratio of games won/lost continues we'll be more like 6th/7th. Remember our competitors for 3rd/4th have lost less games and don't seem to have a habit of being so jeckyll and hyde as we seem to
 
glorygloryeze said:
I'm glad you gave a more detailed response to RobSpurs post.

I wanted to ask a bit more about the bolded bits near the end. In a way it is true that PL players should get the basics right; but assuming they did get the basics right under the previous regime, then if they have started to not get the basics right under this regime doesn't the finger of blame or a least questions being asked have to come the way of the cureent regime?

You assume we can lost 6 games in every 16 games we play and still get fourth? I'm sure if the ratio of games won/lost continues we'll be more like 6th/7th. Remember our competitors for 3rd/4th have lost less games and don't seem to have a habit of being so jeckyll and hyde as we seem to
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For the first issue, it could be the regime, however it could also be because we have lost two of the three most technically proficient players in the same window, Modric especially. We don't have a Modric replacement. It wasn't his passing or his creativity that made the difference. It was his positioning. He would pass the ball, and then he would position himself to recieve an easy pass from whoever had the ball at the time. Thudd doesn't have the mobility for it, and Dembele is a far more direct type of player.


I didn't say anything about losing 6 in 16. I said the performances and the results. How many games this season have we lost by a large margin? Two. And that's if you count two goals as a large margin. We lost to city and Arsenal by two or more, they are good sides that you can't expect to draw with, let alone beat away from home. Every other game we have lost has only had one goal in it. Granted we lost, however i am assuming when we have our first choice back four back up and we will be far more defensively sound.

Bar two none of our results are that bad. We lost and drew once or twice against the 'worse' teams yes, but having trouble breaking down the worse teams isn't exactly a new thing for spurs.
 
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Spursalot said:
Not sure if serious..


I haven't thought he has had a master plan up his sleeve, i have been watching games and seeing how we have been playing and the results we have been getting

Not being good enough is a fact not a justification. We lost, therefore we did not play well enough.

Thinking he handled the Lloris/Freidel thing well, doesn't mean i think our defence has been awesome.


Swansea managed to play them off the park because that is how a system works, AVB is trying to work us into a system, albeit a different system, which will mean it will affect us far less when a big player leaves.


Modric leaving not a big thing? The player that instigated a large majority of our play leaving and the team is supposed to be just as good?

Granted suarez is out, however Suarez doesn't keep Liverpool ticking. THe midfield keeps them ticking. Comparing suarez's contributions at Pool and Modric's in our team is such a waste of time.



Lastly, if the basics are not right is that entirely AVB's fault? These are premiership players, they should be able to do the basics before they even get to the stadium for training.


We are 16 games into the season. On the same points as fourth, challenging for fourth, I don't expect that to change from what i've seen this season.
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I do...we have been slightly fortunate recently...luck will even itself out, we are NOT defending well enough and our distribution throughout the team when we are pressed is p**s poor! When we try and hold a high line there is always someone playing the opposition on side, the team play as if they are instructed to play "with the handbrake on" and invariably we always tire and concede late on in games...all of the mentioned will catch up on us when our luck runs out (like it did today)then the results will consistently turn for the worse...Never had a good feeling about AVB the moment I discovered that 20 players went up to Saudi Sportswashing Machine on the opening day and the week before naming him as his club captain he doesn't take Michael Dawson with him... for those of you on here who think that Steven Caulker and William Gallas at this stage of their careers are better then Daws...You are mad :ross:
 
they are all fair points but look at all the other teams fighting for 4th, they are all crap as well, you take the Manchester clubs, Reading and QPR out of this division and you can pretty much throw a hat over everyone else
 
Robspur12 said:
Save your energy mate it's wasted on here. Many of the posters have managed to convince themselves that AVB has a cunning masterplan up his sleeve which is eventually going to come good. This blind optimisim then means they don't feel so bad when we lose as pathetically as we did today. Every time we lose there is a justification it's not that we were just not good enough or that we have not been good enough on too many occasions this seaso.n AVB has a way to overcomplicate everything. Something is not right with the squad and the system of play. We can't do simple passing, we are so panicked at the back that we have lost the ability to play the ball out confidently from the back. Posters said AVB handled the Lloris/Friedel thing well I simply cannot agree when our defence is so shocking. The goalkeeper should have been a constant from the beginning.The argument about injured players and the loss of modric is just a weak. Swansea lost Joe Allen and Sigurdsonn but still manage to pass Arsenal off the park in their back yard. Liverpool were missing their only striker and arguably best player and they still won today. It seems to me that AVB is trying different things, today he put on an attacking substitution in Falque, but it is not working perhaps because basics are not right. We are 16 games into the season he needs to sort this otherwise this season will be mid table dissapointment.
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I agree with most of this but Its the players I am looking at, right now, not AVB. Take Bale away from the lot and there isnt much quality left in that team. And he wasnt playing today.
 
Spursalot said:
For the first issue, it could be the regime, however it could also be because we have lost two of the three most technically proficient players in the same window, Modric especially. We don't have a Modric replacement. It wasn't his passing or his creativity that made the difference. It was his positioning. He would pass the ball, and then he would position himself to recieve an easy pass from whoever had the ball at the time. Thudd doesn't have the mobility for it, and Dembele is a far more direct type of player.


I didn't say anything about losing 6 in 16. I said the performances and the results. How many games this season have we lost by a large margin? Two. And that's if you count two goals as a large margin. We lost to city and Arsenal by two or more, they are good sides that you can't expect to draw with, let alone beat away from home. Every other game we have lost has only had one goal in it. Granted we lost, however i am assuming when we have our first choice back four back up and we will be far more defensively sound.

Bar two none of our results are that bad. We lost and drew once or twice against the 'worse' teams yes, but having trouble breaking down the worse teams isn't exactly a new thing for spurs.
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Modric and his ilk make basic passing easier I agree, but basics are still basics. Not having Modric should make our elaborate passing become less good, not our basic passing.

I think you are right about the results, but the general trend of performamces could be argued to be being greatly papered over by the results. Over a season I don't think that can continue, especially with our penchat for late goals being conceded
 
Jimmy-g said:
lennon was doing a great job defensively, Dembele was giving us possesion and Defoe was a goal threat, when he changed it we lost shape and balance, imo if he had left the team alone we would have had a draw at least.
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Lennon's substitution lead to our best period of the match. Simple as that. We never looked as good in the entire game as we did from the period Lennon went off to the time Caulker decided to slice the ball clear.

The hysterical nonsense in this thread really is tiring to read through. It would be so easy to bat it all back but there isn't actually any point. Every team has issues. Every team can moan about something. We are 3 points off third. Yes other teams have lost key players, but the point is we have and are still right where we should be. We are 2 minutes from our 4th win in a row and everything being rosey. A bad clearance and a lucky bounce later and everyone is understandably annoyed. But the broad sweeping statements about the direction of our club/the preparation by the coaches or the quality of the players is just not right. We could have prepared exactly the same way today and been comfortable 2-0 winners had Sig's shot gone in. Sometimes the club and the coaches do all it can but the players have to go and do the job, and sometimes you need to have the bounce of the ball go your way. We didn't get that today, but we will get it in the future.
 
A majority of blind, delusional Spurs fans, judging by this thread. Accepting defeat and embarrassment from a clueless manager, stupidly quoting we are "blah" off third place (and when we lose again it then becomes "blah blah" off third place etc etc etc.). Making excuses for a spineless team and shocking management. And people wonder why we are a laughing stock.
 
shaney said:
A majority of blind, delusional Spurs fans, judging by this thread. Accepting defeat and embarrassment from a clueless manager, stupidly quoting we are "blah" off third place (and when we lose again it then becomes "blah blah" off third place etc etc etc.). Making excuses for a spineless team and shocking management. And people wonder why we are a laughing stock.
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Bringing the phrase laughing stock into the equation is a bit of irony IMO mate.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
Lennon's substitution lead to our best period of the match. Simple as that. We never looked as good in the entire game as we did from the period Lennon went off to the time Caulker decided to slice the ball clear.

The hysterical nonsense in this thread really is tiring to read through. It would be so easy to bat it all back but there isn't actually any point. Every team has issues. Every team can moan about something. We are 3 points off third. Yes other teams have lost key players, but the point is we have and are still right where we should be. We are 2 minutes from our 4th win in a row and everything being rosey. A bad clearance and a lucky bounce later and everyone is understandably annoyed. But the broad sweeping statements about the direction of our club/the preparation by the coaches or the quality of the players is just not right. We could have prepared exactly the same way today and been comfortable 2-0 winners had Sig's shot gone in. Sometimes the club and the coaches do all it can but the players have to go and do the job, and sometimes you need to have the bounce of the ball go your way. We didn't get that today, but we will get it in the future.
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I thought we played well today and deserved something from the game, until Lennon went off we looked balanced and in control, Dembele kept the ball well and retained possesion, its just frustration really, I would not deny that there were a lot of positives from our performance today.
 
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