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Eric Dier

Jurgen the German said:
Those two (and Lloris) made more than most though. You can’t bench the whole team but you can start with the players who are costing us the most goals/points and are putting pressure on the team with said mistakes.
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How do the number of mistakes they made compare to other players who are as exposed as them as often as them?

Or are we comparing apples with oranges?
 
Jurgen the German said:
Those two (and Lloris) made more than most though. You can’t bench the whole team but you can start with the players who are costing us the most goals/points and are putting pressure on the team with said mistakes.
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I guess we need to take credit in the bank into account, that was the argument for Son, who had a shocker of a season all things considered.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I get why the players took out their anger on Chelsea but I would have preferred if we hadn’t completely lost our heads that night and maybe stood a better chance of winning that game. Probably not a popular opinion but I don’t get why people look back so fondly on that game when we threw away a great chance to win at Stamford Bridge which we almost never do and would have kept the pressure on Leicester, at least for one more game.
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IMO it was because until then we'd been considered a soft touch. We lost the title chase when Dele was sent off after retaliating to a Jacob rabbit punch midweek against the Baggies. I think Stamford Bridge was the game where we learnt the pain of losing/being robbed yet fighting. It set us up for what in any other normal season would've been the title the following season. Nobody ever bullied us again when Poch was manager.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Let’s hope not. But will once again highlight how poorly run the club is at the moment if he does end up with a new contract.
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See, again, I have to question you here. What are you basing this on? Just some bricky games last season? There are many. Have you considered his potential value to the club in general? I don't think anyone is questioning his starting position i.e. no thanks, but as a squad member he could well be invaluable. Yet if he gets a contract, that is going to be your 'highlight of how poorly run the club is' right now? I'd say there are several other places to start personally, i.e. dingdonging around YET AGAIN with key position signings the manager wants and needs (ironically precisely where Dier is haha) but that does not mean keeping Dier as a squad member would be a bad move at all.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Those two (and Lloris) made more than most though. You can’t bench the whole team but you can start with the players who are costing us the most goals/points and are putting pressure on the team with said mistakes.
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We've done that. We parted with a manager who refused to play to strengths and instead seemed hellbent on setting up the team to take pressure in precisely it's most non-optimal areas. FWIW I think having a wreckless partner next to you like Romero would be tough work for anyone. He needs to be counseled through games sometimes.
 
thfcsteff said:
We've done that. We parted with a manager who refused to play to strengths and instead seemed hellbent on setting up the team to take pressure in precisely it's most non-optimal areas. FWIW I think having a wreckless partner next to you like Romero would be tough work for anyone. He needs to be counseled through games sometimes.
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We also only conceded 40 goals the season before so I think alot went wrong somewhere along the line last season to concede 25+ more which was alot more than just laying it at Diers or Sanchez (8 starts) door, although as a caveat I am not saying they were very good either. When I watched the City game for example, it was the WBs that were primarily to blame for conceding 4 in the second half, so whoever's idea it was to play a 33 year old in the PL as a WB may be complicit in the issues as they were in thinking Pedro Porro would make a great defensive WB on the right without any bedding in process. I don't think its anywhere near a stretch to suggest that with the lack of coverage from WB at times that any of the CBs were helped all the time. If anyone fancies a video nasty go back and watch that second half MC highlights or Leicester (note the lack of CM help). Collectively we were a defensive joke at times
 
scaramanga said:
How do the number of mistakes they made compare to other players who are as exposed as them as often as them?

Or are we comparing apples with oranges?
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Nature of playing CB is there isn’t much leniency for mistakes, same with goalkeepers. I liken it to the police department, yes every profession has “bad apples” but some jobs can’t have bad apples.
 
Baleforce said:
I don’t agree with that, not that long ago we were delighted that the club fought off United’s attempts to sign him.
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United also signed Harry Maguire, and made him captain :D they haven’t exactly made a lot of smart decisions since Fergie retired. Not sure id use them as a yardstick right now.
 
thfcsteff said:
See, again, I have to question you here. What are you basing this on? Just some bricky games last season? There are many. Have you considered his potential value to the club in general? I don't think anyone is questioning his starting position i.e. no thanks, but as a squad member he could well be invaluable. Yet if he gets a contract, that is going to be your 'highlight of how poorly run the club is' right now? I'd say there are several other places to start personally, i.e. dingdonging around YET AGAIN with key position signings the manager wants and needs (ironically precisely where Dier is haha) but that does not mean keeping Dier as a squad member would be a bad move at all.
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Steff, all that matters is he isn’t good enough. If he’s happy to stick around and be a part time player then fine but at this stage in his career I’d imagine he wants to start most of the games. If he wants to be a coach like Mason when his career is over and he turns out to be a good coach then great. He needs a clean break for his own good and for ours. Maguire is in a similar situation at United.
 
Grays_1890 said:
We also only conceded 40 goals the season before so I think alot went wrong somewhere along the line last season to concede 25+ more which was alot more than just laying it at Diers or Sanchez (8 starts) door, although as a caveat I am not saying they were very good either. When I watched the City game for example, it was the WBs that were primarily to blame for conceding 4 in the second half, so whoever's idea it was to play a 33 year old in the PL as a WB may be complicit in the issues as they were in thinking Pedro Porro would make a great defensive WB on the right without any bedding in process. I don't think its anywhere near a stretch to suggest that with the lack of coverage from WB at times that any of the CBs were helped all the time. If anyone fancies a video nasty go back and watch that second half MC highlights or Leicester (note the lack of CM help). Collectively we were a defensive joke at times
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Royal getting injured had a major impact on our season. We were a much better team with him on the pitch.

We were a car crash down the left until we moved Davies back out there, but we then missed him at LCB.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Given the statistics and overall output of our defensive unit in the last 3-4 years would suggest it’s an area they mostly got wrong and still needs to be corrected.
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The tactics were exactly why that was all wrong. I'm not saying performances were incredible, but it made little sense to repeatedly pressurize the area of our team which were weakest with tasks they were not amazing at.
 
Grays_1890 said:
We also only conceded 40 goals the season before so I think alot went wrong somewhere along the line last season to concede 25+ more which was alot more than just laying it at Diers or Sanchez (8 starts) door, although as a caveat I am not saying they were very good either. When I watched the City game for example, it was the WBs that were primarily to blame for conceding 4 in the second half, so whoever's idea it was to play a 33 year old in the PL as a WB may be complicit in the issues as they were in thinking Pedro Porro would make a great defensive WB on the right without any bedding in process. I don't think its anywhere near a stretch to suggest that with the lack of coverage from WB at times that any of the CBs were helped all the time. If anyone fancies a video nasty go back and watch that second half MC highlights or Leicester (note the lack of CM help). Collectively we were a defensive joke at times
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Bang on point. Time and time again the defence under pressure with no help...
 
Finney Is Back said:
Difference is that Son’s upside is a hell of a lot bigger than Dier’s.
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Come on mate. What sort of comparison is that? Systems are so important. I don't think we will truly gauge how awful it was under Conte last season for some time. I said at the time that grief over Ventrone was something we needed to watch carefully, and when he kept trying to come back against doc's orders it was lunacy, unsettling and destabilizing. Pretty much every single player suffered. Including Sonny.
 
Baleforce said:
Yep, and pressure couldn’t be eased because the front three kept coughing it up.
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...yup ,because the way the system has been sussed, the likes of Sonny were being forced to play back to goal and were unable to hold the ball up because, well, that isn't their top game...
 
thfcsteff said:
The tactics were exactly why that was all wrong. I'm not saying performances were incredible, but it made little sense to repeatedly pressurize the area of our team which were weakest with tasks they were not amazing at.
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I do agree poor tactics exacerbated things. Rubbish tactics and poor form just made things worse, vicious circle.
 
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