Carlyle takeover, was Cain Hoy takeover

[pakispur]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Under Levy's stewardship we hve had finncial stability and got to a level of around the 5th best club. Without greater investment in the 1st 11 we cannot go higher unless one f the others have a poor season. we are at risk from the clubs slightly lower than us getting a billionaire owner willing to invest as Joe Lewis has shown repeatedly that he wil short term finance but not invest seriously.

On the flip side of it under Ley we have had managerial instability with change every few seasonsand the inabilty to hang on to our best playersanytime a bigger club comes along with a decent offer, due to our player sseeing that we are not really investing but just turning around our money.

Maybe toprogress we need change, if so thanks would go to Levy and Lewis from stabalising the club when ee looked in troub;e

 

[Superhudd]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

An owner cannot just spend money these days on the first team. They can only spend money to significant amounts on infrastructure. What I would hope is that Cain Hoy come in and pay for the stadium and right of the bat we as a club start getting rewards straightaway once the stadium is completed. That really is the most that we can hope for.

 

[camspur]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Nope. As things stand, Levy has 30% of ENIC. They have 85% of Spurs. So he has 25% of Spurs, give or take.

That said, the £40m loan announced along with the most recent financial report will increase ENIC's share once converted into equity. By how much, I've no idea. There's been no indication as to what price will be set for the new shares.

Nope, Levy has a 30% share of ENIC he owns ZERO Spurs shares, they are owned by ENIC. Should Joe Lewis decide that ENIC are selling up, which as majority shareholder of ENIC he can do without Levy's permission, Levy will receive 30% of that sale. Levy's ownership of ENIC shares does not translate to ownership of Spurs shares.

 

[Rorschach]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

An owner cannot just spend money these days on the first team. They can only spend money to significant amounts on infrastructure. What I would hope is that Cain Hoy come in and pay for the stadium and right of the bat we as a club start getting rewards straightaway once the stadium is completed. That really is the most that we can hope for.

I'd live with that.

 

[milo]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

An owner cannot just spend money these days on the first team. They can only spend money to significant amounts on infrastructure. What I would hope is that Cain Hoy come in and pay for the stadium and right of the bat we as a club start getting rewards straightaway once the stadium is completed. That really is the most that we can hope for.

I cannot see any owner (other than a fossil fuel gazillionaire) paying for the stadium outright from their own pocket.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Nope, Levy has a 30% share of ENIC he owns ZERO Spurs shares, they are owned by ENIC. Should Joe Lewis decide that ENIC are selling up, which as majority shareholder of ENIC he can do without Levy's permission, Levy will receive 30% of that sale. Levy's ownership of ENIC shares does not translate to ownership of Spurs shares.

It's not that simple. Lewis (unless previously agreed by the pair) can't just do whatever he likes with ENIC, majority shareholder or not.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

I cannot see any owner (other than a fossil fuel gazillionaire) paying for the stadium outright from their own pocket.

And even if they did, they'd want a rate of return on that investment which is at least equal to bank interest. So in the short term we might be worse off than just with a simple bank loan for the stadium costs.

Either we want someone very rich to pay for the stadium and only expect their return to come from capital growth (very unlikely) or we want someone to underwrite the loan so that the interest rate we get is lower than it otherwise would be.

 

[jts1882]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

My guess is that the initial talks with Cain Hoy were about buying a share to help fund the stadium. It explains the talks that occurred and is consistent with the Spurs statement that they were not discussing a takeover. This seems consistent with a sports investment company strategy, which means we would likely be swapping one for another and leaving us pretty much where we are. A plus might be Cain Hoy can get a better financing package, the negative is uncertainty on what type of owner they would be. On balance they look like a Kroenke/Lerner/FSG type, but some of those involved have a history of leveraged buy-outs (e.g. like Hicks).

Overall, it looks like a takeover would probably be neutral, has some chance of improved investment, and a small chance of a rapacious owner. Is it worth the risk?

 

[El Guepardo]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

So, all the money saved up to finance the ground, and so not spent on the players that we needed is to be written off?!!

In theory our club has had a few poor, compared to what might have been achieved, seasons all so that Lewis could make more money...on that basis, I'm hoping for new owners who are willing to put up transfer funds.

 

[milo]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

So, all the money saved up to finance the ground, and so not spent on the players that we needed is to be written off?!!

In theory our club has had a few poor, compared to what might have been achieved, seasons all so that Lewis could make more money...on that basis, I'm hoping for new owners who are willing to put up transfer funds.

I don't think that any money has been saved up to pay for the ground. The ground will be paid for by loans and naming rights. Keeping wages under control and breaking even on transfer spend is just running the club efficiently and the most likely method of getting a decent price for the club when ENIC come to sell.

 

[camspur]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

It's not that simple. Lewis (unless previously agreed by the pair) can't just do whatever he likes with ENIC, majority shareholder or not.

He owns 70% of the shares that's more than plenty to have control of the com,pany, if Lewis says something the company does it.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

He owns 70% of the shares that's more than plenty to have control of the com,pany, if Lewis says something the company does it.

I don't know how many times you need me to say this, but I'll try once more:

That's not how it works. Majority ≠ control.

Without reading ENIC's Articles of Association you don't know what control is given to whom.

EDIT:

Even without an agreement of equity, there are still other ways in which minority shareholders can have more control. This may help a little - http://www.charlesrussell.co.uk/Use..._shareholders_and_their_rights_-_Jan_2009.pdf

 

[El Guepardo]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

I don't think that any money has been saved up to pay for the ground. The ground will be paid for by loans and naming rights. Keeping wages under control and breaking even on transfer spend is just running the club efficiently and the most likely method of getting a decent price for the club when ENIC come to sell.

My mind is on the Saha & Nelsen deals. We signed two washed up players at a time where, if we had spent real money, we would have very likely benefited from the expenditure. Instead, our season collapsed, and we are left to pay the cost later through missing out on the CL.

If that money had been put aside for the stadium, that might have made more sense, than trying to be financially astute at a time in which we were at our highest level for some time.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

i don't think you can blame Levy for being frugal at that point El Guepardo - we were miles out in front of 4th and even further ahead of 5th - the team was playing fantastic and we already had Defoe/Pav as bench options that rarely got a look in as it was. and then on top of that he was faced with the possibility of the manager leaving at the end of the season - meaning potentially any signing might not be wanted by his replacement - we saw what happened when we qualified for the CL before - the money got swallowed up by wage increases and bonuses, so every penny still counts. weighing everything up at that point short term deals made the most sense.

 

[milo]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

My mind is on the Saha & Nelsen deals. We signed two washed up players at a time where, if we had spent real money, we would have very likely benefited from the expenditure. Instead, our season collapsed, and we are left to pay the cost later through missing out on the CL.

If that money had been put aside for the stadium, that might have made more sense, than trying to be financially astute at a time in which we were at our highest level for some time.

It certainly wasn't our best bit of business ever. I think that the failure to invest then was partly down to uncertainty over our manager's future and isn't evidence of money being squirrelled away for the stadium.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

It certainly wasn't our best bit of business ever. I think that the failure to invest then was partly down to uncertainty over our manager's future and isn't evidence of money being squirrelled away for the stadium.

Let's not forget that the lack of investment came after a massive bump in the wage bill too.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Let's not forget that the lack of investment came after a massive bump in the wage bill too.

this is what everyone seems to forget - wages and transfers go hand in hand really - we used to outspend Arsenal a fair bit on transfers quite a bit but they always had a much higher wage bill, which kept them in front (able to pay a higher caliber of player more money) as our wages rose the money available for transfers went down

 

[LutonSpurs]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/club-announcement2-230914/

Earlier this month in accordance with the requirements of the City Code on Takeovers and Mergers (the “Code”), the Club was required to write to all shareholders to notify them of a possible offer for Tottenham Hotspur Limited (THFC). THFC confirmed at that time that it was not in takeover discussions with any party. We are further required by the Code to issue a statement, 10 business days following the initial announcement listing the shareholding interests of the main shareholders, which is set out in the link below. Both these actions are formalities.

FORM 8 (OPD)

 

[jimmyb]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/club-announcement2-230914/

Earlier this month in accordance with the requirements of the City Code on Takeovers and Mergers (the “Code”), the Club was required to write to all shareholders to notify them of a possible offer for Tottenham Hotspur Limited (THFC). THFC confirmed at that time that it was not in takeover discussions with any party. We are further required by the Code to issue a statement, 10 business days following the initial announcement listing the shareholding interests of the main shareholders, which is set out in the link below. Both these actions are formalities.

FORM 8 (OPD)

Ha!

Got me a bit excited when I saw the headline "Club Announcement" on the official site!

 

[jimmyb]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Nope, Levy has a 30% share of ENIC he owns ZERO Spurs shares, they are owned by ENIC. Should Joe Lewis decide that ENIC are selling up, which as majority shareholder of ENIC he can do without Levy's permission, Levy will receive 30% of that sale. Levy's ownership of ENIC shares does not translate to ownership of Spurs shares.

Pedantry!

To all intents and purposes, Levy owns some 25% of Spurs.

I'm not familiar with ENIC's Articles of Association. And I'm guessing that you aren't either. So we can't be absolutely certain what would happen if Lewis wanted to sell his shares but Levy didn't.