Carlyle takeover, was Cain Hoy takeover

[Jordinho]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

has Levy always had a controlling share in the club? i thought that came later and initially Lewis had put him in charge - If this new group think he's the right man for the job then i could see him carry on

Levy always had 30% (if that's the correct number) in ENIC. ENIC had 29 or so % in Spurs for a while as anything higher would have meant a compulsory buyout offer would have to be made. When they first took over the running of the club they hired a guy named Buchler or something as a chief exec to allow Levy to get the hang of things before taking over.

Edit: this is the guy: www.dbuchler.com/profiles/davidbuchler.htm

 

[jimmyb]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Indeed but why would the new majority share holders want a minority share holder in the most key position in the club and why would Levy hand around when he will have lost a lot of the control that he has enjoyed until now? It just does not ring true to me.

There are a number of possible scenarios at play here - if the itk is true.

It may be that Cain Hoy will buy 100% of ENIC's shareholding but keep Levy on for a year or two to ensure a smooth transition. It's a common enough outcome and would make sense. It will mean that Pochettino is still dealing with the same man, after all - the man that hired him. And we know from Poch's time at Southampton and his relationship with Nicola Cortese that stability at the top might be important to him. If Cain Hoy don't keep Levy on, then they will need to appoint a new CEO who has equal experience of running a Premier League club. But even if there is such a person available and of sufficient quality, he / she wouldn't know Spurs as well as Levy does.

Alternatively, Levy simply might not want to sell. It may be that the only way that a deal can be done is if Levy retains his 25% of the club and continues as chairman (he owns 30% of ENIC, not Spurs). Perhaps Joe Lewis might have even made it a condition of sale? Who knows? But there's nothing that seems especially unlikely about it to me.

 

[LutonSpurs]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

I think that Levy is a 30% owner of ENIC and hence 30% owner of Spurs.

Milo. Yes I imagine a shrewd owner would want their own guy at the helm but the issue may be simply a case of Levy not wanting to give up his share. Not sure what happens if they just buy Lewis's share....


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[Finney Is Back]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

On Sunday a few of the ST holders who sit around me were also saying that they had heard this deal was very real. The gist of it was that Levy/the Banks wanted Lewis to pay for or at least underwrite the stadium financing but that Lewis wasn't/isn't prepared to do that and this has led to a souring of relations between the two majority owners of our club.

 

[milo]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

There are a number of possible scenarios at play here - if the itk is true.

It may be that Cain Hoy will buy 100% of ENIC's shareholding but keep Levy on for a year or two to ensure a smooth transition. It's a common enough outcome and would make sense. It will mean that Pochettino is still dealing with the same man, after all - the man that hired him. And we know from Poch's time at Southampton and his relationship with Nicola Cortese that stability at the top might be important to him. If Cain Hoy don't keep Levy on, then they will need to appoint a new CEO who has equal experience of running a Premier League club. But even if there is such a person available and of sufficient quality, he / she wouldn't know Spurs as well as Levy does.

Alternatively, Levy simply might not want to sell. It may be that the only way that a deal can be done is if Levy retains his 25% of the club and continues as chairman (he owns 30% of ENIC, not Spurs). Perhaps Joe Lewis might have even made it a condition of sale? Who knows? But there's nothing that seems especially unlikely about it to me.

I think that Levy staying on for a transitional period would make sense and I could see it happening. I cannot see Levy refusing to sell, it could put of potential purchasers and have a detrimental impact on the value of the club.

 

[LutonSpurs]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Interesting from a poster on SC:


Maybe I'm confused, but my understanding was that Levy & Lewis don't own shares in Tottenham directly. The shares are owned by ENIC and Levy & Lewis own all the shares in Enic.
Now, if Cain Hoy were only interested in Lewis' share (and retaining Levy) then it would make more sense for them to buy Lewis' shares in Enic as majority shareholder of the holding company. However, the 2.10 statement indicated that they were preparing a bid to take over THFC Ltd (rather than Enic), which to me indicates they are buying the shares off Enic directly, and would make it a lot more difficult for Levy to extract & retain his share of the club.........would he not need to effectively either buy them off Enic or dissolve the company and split the assets between shareholders (and possibly suffer a huge deemed profit subject to CG tax)?


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[Finney Is Back]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

I think ENIC set up a subsidiary company for their THFC ownership (was it called Kondar or something like that?)... I think this was because ENIC had a number of shareholders in addition to Lewis and Levy, whereas Kondar was Lewis and Levy only.

It would be perfectly feasible for another company/individual to purchase Joe Lewis' 60 odd percent in THFC.

 

[milo]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Interesting from a poster on SC:


Maybe I'm confused, but my understanding was that Levy & Lewis don't own shares in Tottenham directly. The shares are owned by ENIC and Levy & Lewis own all the shares in Enic.
Now, if Cain Hoy were only interested in Lewis' share (and retaining Levy) then it would make more sense for them to buy Lewis' shares in Enic as majority shareholder of the holding company. However, the 2.10 statement indicated that they were preparing a bid to take over THFC Ltd (rather than Enic), which to me indicates they are buying the shares off Enic directly, and would make it a lot more difficult for Levy to extract & retain his share of the club.........would he not need to effectively either buy them off Enic or dissolve the company and split the assets between shareholders (and possibly suffer a huge deemed profit subject to CG tax)?


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There is no reason why they could not form a new company and transfer Levy's share of ENIC's holding in Spurs to that and then Lewis sell up the remainder of ENIC's holding.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

I think that Levy is a 30% owner of ENIC and hence 30% owner of Spurs.

Milo. Yes I imagine a shrewd owner would want their own guy at the helm but the issue may be simply a case of Levy not wanting to give up his share. Not sure what happens if they just buy Lewis's share....


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Nope. As things stand, Levy has 30% of ENIC. They have 85% of Spurs. So he has 25% of Spurs, give or take.

That said, the £40m loan announced along with the most recent financial report will increase ENIC's share once converted into equity. By how much, I've no idea. There's been no indication as to what price will be set for the new shares.

 

[milo]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

On Sunday a few of the ST holders who sit around me were also saying that they had heard this deal was very real. The gist of it was that Levy/the Banks wanted Lewis to pay for or at least underwrite the stadium financing but that Lewis wasn't/isn't prepared to do that and this has led to a souring of relations between the two majority owners of our club.

I suppose in that scenario, it is always possible that Levy has found someone to buy out Lewis.

 

[milo]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

I think ENIC set up a subsidiary company for their THFC ownership (was it called Kondar or something like that?)... I think this was because ENIC had a number of shareholders in addition to Lewis and Levy, whereas Kondar was Lewis and Levy only.

It would be perfectly feasible for another company/individual to purchase Joe Lewis' 60 odd percent in THFC.

In 2003 Joe Lewis and Daniel Levy, who controlled 52% of ENIC shares, formed Kondar Ltd to buy out the remaining shareholders. A cash offer of £40m was made to take the company back into private ownership.[6] Following the buyout, Lewis and Levy controlled 70.6% and 29.4% respectively of shares in ENIC, which was delisted from AIM and renamed ENIC Group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIC_Group

 

[jimmyb]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

I think that Levy staying on for a transitional period would make sense and I could see it happening. I cannot see Levy refusing to sell, it could put of potential purchasers and have a detrimental impact on the value of the club.

I don't mean that he proposes to hang on to his shares for the remainder of his life, come what may!

It's just that he may still see great scope for growth in the value of the club and might, therefore, not wish to sell right now.

 

[LutonSpurs]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

The biggest question is whether both JL and DL are at odds or not. If JL wants to sell and DL doesn't is there anything DL can do to stop him?




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[billyiddo]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

I don't mean that he proposes to hang on to his shares for the remainder of his life, come what may!

It's just that he may still see great scope for growth in the value of the club and might, therefore, not wish to sell right now.

with the age gap between Lewis and Levy that could well be true i guess

 

[milo]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

I don't mean that he proposes to hang on to his shares for the remainder of his life, come what may!

It's just that he may still see great scope for growth in the value of the club and might, therefore, not wish to sell right now.

:lol:

 

[jimmyb]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

The biggest question is whether both JL and DL are at odds or not. If JL wants to sell and DL doesn't is there anything DL can do to stop him?




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Depends on ENIC's particular Articles of Association, I would have thought.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Indeed but why would the new majority share holders want a minority share holder in the most key position in the club and why would Levy hand around when he will have lost a lot of the control that he has enjoyed until now? It just does not ring true to me.

1) Because they don't know anything about football. They are traders.

2) Because he's not rich enough to own the club by himself. He could just be trading one silent partner for another

 

[milo]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

1) Because they don't know anything about football. They are traders.

2) Because he's not rich enough to own the club by himself. He could just be trading one silent partner for another

1) Like I said above, I could see it for an interim period whilst they find their feet/find their own chief exec or;

2) he is trading one silent partner for another.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

The biggest question is whether both JL and DL are at odds or not. If JL wants to sell and DL doesn't is there anything DL can do to stop him?

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Depends on ENIC's particular Articles of Association, I would have thought.

Pretty much this.

Can Levy stop Lewis selling Lewis's shares in ENIC? No - he can do whatever the hell he likes with them.

Can Levy stop Lewis selling Spurs from ENIC? Possibly. Different companies allow different voting rights - it's not as simple as 51% = control. At one end of the scale, Levy and Lewis could have equal voting rights and the share split is simply down to the level of investment/return. At the other end of the scale, Levy could have almost no voting rights at all. When you have only two shareholders, it can get very messy - could end up being dragged through arbitration if the two of them disagree.

In all likelihood they've at least got a good working relationship, if not full agreement.

 

[harr1984]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

For me the ideal scenario in simple terms would be richer owner or at least someone prepared to invest more in the team will come in, with Levy remaining to oversee things still...