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Carlyle takeover, was Cain Hoy takeover

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

I can give three reasons straightaway.

1 They don't suffer from the ticketing and pricing policies we suffer from.

2 They have better fans (the ones that go to the ground anyway)

3 The stewarding there doesn't seem to be as zealous as at the Lane.

You yourself allude to our ticketing strategy by suggesting less STs.

Under ENIC we have gathered a typical crowd that consists mainly of STs and tourists. It seems ENIC are happy as long as the cash comes rolling in, and care little about encouraging those of us who like to sing and shout at the games. After years of trying to help create an atmosphere by singing and shouting as loud as I can, and often getting tut tutted at by STs distrurbed from their sleep like state or constant whinging I've given up going. Doubt I'll be back till we get a new owner/stadium, preferably both.

An 1882 block in Park Lane might help turn the tide. Paxton was lost to the entitlement ****ers years ago, but I think there's enough latent passion in Park Lane/The Shelf to be awoken with a bit of a kick.

I'm not sure how new owners will help. Especially foreign ones who will want to commoditise and then asset strip us.

The poisonous atmosphere is something we need to take responsibility for and turn around.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

I can give three reasons straightaway.

1 They don't suffer from the ticketing and pricing policies we suffer from.

2 They have better fans (the ones that go to the ground anyway)

3 The stewarding there doesn't seem to be as zealous as at the Lane.

You yourself allude to our ticketing strategy by suggesting less STs.

Under ENIC we have gathered a typical crowd that consists mainly of STs and tourists. It seems ENIC are happy as long as the cash comes rolling in, and care little about encouraging those of us who like to sing and shout at the games. After years of trying to help create an atmosphere by singing and shouting as loud as I can, and often getting tut tutted at by STs distrurbed from their sleep like state or constant whinging I've given up going. Doubt I'll be back till we get a new owner/stadium, preferably both.

It's interesting that you seem to be aware that it is the fans themselves who are the problem and yet still you're trying to blame ENIC for the poor atmosphere.

Just blame the fans. Their excuses won't wash.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

An 1882 block in Park Lane might help turn the tide. Paxton was lost to the entitlement ****ers years ago, but I think there's enough latent passion in Park Lane/The Shelf to be awoken with a bit of a kick.

I'm not sure how new owners will help. Especially foreign ones who will want to commoditise and then asset strip us.

The poisonous atmosphere is something we need to take responsibility for and turn around.

We will not be asset stripped. The club is worth far more as an intact entity than it would be when broken into its constituent parts.

100% agreed with you about the fans having to take responsibility, though.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

As a lot of Guggenheim's other business is hotels -Travelodge, Days Inn and Ramada are some of their brands, I wonder if there will be a big rethink of the entire stadium site with an attempt to squeeze several of those in as well?

I don't think that's quite right.

I think it's just that one of the Cain Hoy founders (and former Guggenheim executive), Henry Silverman, was formerly CEO of Cendant Corporation - the spin off from which, Wyndham Worldwide, is the current holding company for Travelodge, Days Inn, Ramada and other hotel chains.

The hotels are nothing to do with Guggenheim, as far as I can tell.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

An 1882 block in Park Lane might help turn the tide. Paxton was lost to the entitlement ****ers years ago, but I think there's enough latent passion in Park Lane/The Shelf to be awoken with a bit of a kick.

I'm not sure how new owners will help. Especially foreign ones who will want to commoditise and then asset strip us.

The poisonous atmosphere is something we need to take responsibility for and turn around.

There are a few ways new owners could help. First and foremost get the new stadium built, this will allow the chance to have a bigger '1882 style' presence and more atmosphere friendly pricing strategies in general.

By upgrading the squad it might cheer up some of our fans, especially if we actually started winning things. But I agree with those who say it's about changing the fans primarily rather than the players, and as I say ENIC's policies, high prices, huge % of STs, have played a large part in giving us the type of non-singing, non-passionate fan that currently predominates at the Lane.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

There are a few ways new owners could help. First and foremost get the new stadium built, this will allow the chance to have a bigger '1882 style' presence and more atmosphere friendly pricing strategies in general.

By upgrading the squad it might cheer up some of our fans, especially if we actually started winning things. But I agree with those who say it's about changing the fans primarily rather than the players, and as I say ENIC's policies, high prices, huge % of STs, have played a large part in giving us the type of non-singing, non-passionate fan that currently predominates at the Lane.
Can you think of a single club where the atmosphere improved after moving to a new stadium?
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

There are a few ways new owners could help. First and foremost get the new stadium built, this will allow the chance to have a bigger '1882 style' presence and more atmosphere friendly pricing strategies in general.

By upgrading the squad it might cheer up some of our fans, especially if we actually started winning things. But I agree with those who say it's about changing the fans primarily rather than the players, and as I say ENIC's policies, high prices, huge % of STs, have played a large part in giving us the type of non-singing, non-passionate fan that currently predominates at the Lane.

Why do you think it's more likely that new owners will get the stadium built?

The comments coming out of the club now are essentially that although there has been no official announcement yet it's essentially just a question of time. Enough reason on it's own not to want to risk a takeover for me.

Can you think of a single club where the atmosphere improved after moving to a new stadium?

Juventus.

For reasons in no way shape or form related to our situation though.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Why do you think it's more likely that new owners will get the stadium built?

The comments coming out of the club now are essentially that although there has been no official announcement yet it's essentially just a question of time. Enough reason on it's own not to want to risk a takeover for me.

Certainly, there are a lot of people who seem to be convinced that the Cain Hoy bid can only be good for us. For what reason? Truth is that we have no idea yet what their plans for us would be, should their bid be successful. We can't assume that they will necessarily have the same strategy for Spurs that they had for LA Dodgers. So we can't assume that they will spend heavily on the team.

In fact, a quick google search revealed that Todd Boehly's speciality is leveraged credit. Which would make him more Glazer, Hicks and Gillette than Mansour or Abramovich. Gulp!

As it happens, my completely uninformed hunch is that Cain Hoy would be more likely to put money into the club rather than take it out. But, until we see the colour of their money, we should exercise some caution.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

When I die, I will leave behind (among other things of course) a wonderful set of Tottenham Hotspur memories. A sense that we always tried to do things the right way. And a pride in what our club is known for by people who know football; not the new crop of 'trophy hunters' but people who understand what this beautiful game is at it's best of hearts. I probably could've played the stock-market and got filthy rich too, but I elected to take another path there too, one which involved living life and placing time as the priority commodity in my life over money.

If we had been owned by Abramovich, I'm sure the chaffinch in me would accept the trophies which came. But it would be a lot emptier. One of the main reasons I got so angry at Redknapp was because he got so close to delivering 'the dream' for me. Trophies and entertainment.

It's coming. I know we're going to end up being bought by big money. I just hope it is someone like the Liverpool owner John Henry, whip have injected financial support yet managed to maintain the underlying club culture.

Abramovich? No thanks. Oligarch money? No thanks. Middle Eastern money? I don't think we need to worry about that. Far Eastern money? No thanks.

I don't know how old you are, steff, but as far as I'm concerned you're still far, far too young to talk about dying just yet. :)

In the end, I doubt Chelsea or City fans look at their trophies and get an 'empty' feeling, particularly in City's case where Mansour seems determined to make the club as fan-friendly as possible, even subsiding the cost of tickets if I remember correctly. I remember the joy on City forums and amongst City fans after they piped United to the title in 2011/2012. Real joy, real exhilaration, real bliss. From all of their fans, not just the new lads: from their entire fanbase, from young 'uns to the old crowd who'd been there and seen it all, from lower league football to beating us in that topsy-turvy FA cup game. And, looking back, I wonder: will we ever get a feeling like that? A feeling of real, tangible superiority to the c*nts down the road, or to Chelsea? A moment of triumph, of finally breaking the established footballing order, of finally being genuinely, tangibly capable of bringing sustained, absolute joy to our supporters, our players and the wider Tottenham Hotspur community?

City fans don't care where the money comes from: for them, the past few years have been the happiest of their City-supporting lives. I think Chelsea fans feel the same way. We can't take that feeling away from them, no matter how much we lecture them about doing things the right way or living within your goddamn means. And after thirteen long years of ENIC ownership, I just wonder if a lot of our fans are rationalising the hurt of seeing clubs like City and Chelsea zoom past us by assuring themselves that we're doing things 'the right way'. After all, unlike in your own personal life, where time and happiness took priority over money, in football every club seeks to give their fans happiness through winning trophies: it's the mechanism football has lived and breathed since its inception. For some clubs, that's impossible, and they're the ones focused on intangible things like tradition, community-building, supporter-satisfaction and the like. For us, stuck in a weird nether world as we usually are, caught between being a team able to win trophies and one forever paddling around in upper/lower mid-table being the epitome of under-achievement and flowing football without an end result....I wonder, is there an identity crisis at the club? We want to win trophies, but we want to do it 'the right way', i.e a triumphant Bill Nicholson-style sweep to the title, all flowing football and glory days, with the added bonus of sensible financial management on the way. The best of both worlds.

Unfortunately, I think that's an impossible ask. It isn't possible anymore, not in the Premier League. And I've been with this club for some fifteen or so years now, through the final days of the Sugar regime and the bold promises of change and hope that ENIC brought with them (knowingly or otherwise) when they took over. And, thirteen years after their take-over, here we are: one CL campaign, and one League Cup, with our stadium being held up by a one stubborn company and our manager under pressure with just five PL games gone. This has been one of the most barren periods in our history: that's fact. And a lot of it has to do with our chairman laughing at our managers' pleas for their first-choice players, his determination to balance the books at any cost and his aversion to taking any risks in pursuit of our dreams.

I repeat, a decade or two from now, City and Chelsea's titles will have become historical facts, with little to no argument about the manner in which those titles were won. And this period we're in now (The ENIC era) will correspondingly be marked as one of the most barren periods we've ever endured, with a drop down the rankings of the English clubs by trophies won and our consistent losses of our best players due to our lack of 'ambition' our only rewards for the owner putting none of his own money into the club and trying to do things 'the right way', which has apparently become a short-hand for 'on the cheap'. And if the owners that come persist in the same vein, I wonder if the old timers will still think it was worth it a decade down the line, by when we will almost certainly have sunk further in the football world's eyes with nought to show for it but perhaps another League Cup, if we're lucky and we don't sack the manager who wins it before he's able to due to underperformance brought on by our refusal to give him the players he wants.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

I know that some of the papers have talked about Levy staying on after a sale but I really cannot see this happening for anything more than a transition period.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Never heard of southstandupper before.

Does he have a track record?
He has 12000 posts but have no idea about his record. Alot of the usual ITKs like Hertyid and Noodles etc all seem to think it's happening also from my whoring on SC.

Maybe there is some fire with the smoke. Who knows.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

I know that some of the papers have talked about Levy staying on after a sale but I really cannot see this happening for anything more than a transition period.

If it's Lewis that's selling, Levy would still own a considerable share.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

If it's Lewis that's selling, Levy would still own a considerable share.

He still would hypotheticaly have 30%. And for new owners who have never run a football team before they would have an important partner who knows every inch of the club. It makes sense for any investor to keep someone in Levys position on.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

If it's Lewis that's selling, Levy would still own a considerable share.

Indeed but why would the new majority share holders want a minority share holder in the most key position in the club and why would Levy hand around when he will have lost a lot of the control that he has enjoyed until now? It just does not ring true to me.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

He still would hypotheticaly have 30%. And for new owners who have never run a football team before they would have an important partner who knows every inch of the club. It makes sense for any investor to keep someone in Levys position on.

I could see it for an interim period whilst they are finding their feet but I still think that it would be easier to buy the club outright and hire a chief exec.
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Indeed but why would the new majority share holders want a minority share holder in the most key position in the club and why would Levy hand around when he will have lost a lot of the control that he has enjoyed until now? It just does not ring true to me.


has Levy always had a controlling share in the club? i thought that came later and initially Lewis had put him in charge - If this new group think he's the right man for the job then i could see him carry on
 
Re: Cain Hoy takeover

has Levy always had a controlling share in the club? i thought that came later and initially Lewis had put him in charge - If this new group think he's the right man for the job then i could see him carry on

I think that he has been an ENIC shareholder all of the time that they have owned the club.

I just don't see what is in it for Levy in staying on when he could pocket hundreds of millions of pounds.
 
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