But he did also specifically mention the PL title.
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AVB Press Conference
- Thread starter Leeds Spur
- Start date
But he did also specifically mention the PL title.
Timeframes are unimportant and a bit of a red herring, IMO.
AVB hasn't made any predictions. That would have been foolish and, for those who are prone to it, embarrassing.
He's simply stated that winning the title should be our aim. It's a mindset that he's trying to get into the players; into the fans; into the very fabric of the club itself. It's something that we've lacked for far too long. As such, he's not specifically talking about this season, next season or the season after. He's talking about what a club like ours should be aiming for every season.
A man after Billy Nick's heart.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Don't disagree with you there - just wanted to be fair to MK since I definitely want to be able to celebrate any time I got proven 'right'.
But yes, it really does seem like AVB is the perfect fit for us. Everything about him just seems to work. What he said yesterday pretty much exactly ties in with Billy Nick's echo of glory statement, and it's just brilliant that he had that bad season at Chelsea otherwise we wouldn't have had a chance of getting him.
Don't disagree with you there - just wanted to be fair to MK since I definitely want to be able to celebrate any time I got proven 'right'.
But yes, it really does seem like AVB is the perfect fit for us. Everything about him just seems to work. What he said yesterday pretty much exactly ties in with Billy Nick's echo of glory statement, and it's just brilliant that he had that bad season at Chelsea otherwise we wouldn't have had a chance of getting him.
Precisely.
Don't disagree with you there - just wanted to be fair to MK since I definitely want to be able to celebrate any time I got proven 'right'.
But yes, it really does seem like AVB is the perfect fit for us. Everything about him just seems to work. What he said yesterday pretty much exactly ties in with Billy Nick's echo of glory statement, and it's just brilliant that he had that bad season at Chelsea otherwise we wouldn't have had a chance of getting him.
Yes it is always a brilliant idea to employ someone who completely failed in his previous job. Not just slightly under performed, but made a complete mess of the job from tactics to man management.
Now unlike the Harry hating retards, I'm fully happy to give AVB a chance, but if it goes horribly wrong - the signs were there to begin with. I hope we have players that fit his system, as he proved at Chelsea he lacked tactical awareness to change the system to suit his players v opposition.
When Bill said it, our club had every chance of being the top club.
Now, the difference is drumming it into the players and fans will only lead to failure when we have little chance of competing with the Manchester teams. Harry lost his job because he talked us up and then finished on par. Setting expectation we are unlikely to achieve will only mean we see moderate success as failure.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Some managers play adaptive tactics and don't focus on a system, some managers focus on a system and a way of playing. I don't think one is necessarily better than the other but the different types can be suitable for different clubs.
Harry was great for us because before him we had talented players but a totally unbalanced squad and therefore no chance of fitting them into a system. He simply got them performing but once he reached a certain level, our talent was against the talent of richer clubs, they will beat us over the course of a league season IMO. We saw with our striker situation, we had good strikers but to compete at the top we needed great strikers, and wasn't able to buy one because they all cost too much. But if we were looking for one that was not necessarily proven to be great, but that could fit into a system, we may be far more able to find and secure a target.
I'm fully confident that if AVB gets players to suit his way of playing, he will do well for us. I don't really care that he failed at Chelsea, except than I am happy it meant we could get him. So many managers fail at clubs - often for the reason that the players they had didn't suit their system and they weren't able to get ones that would - that it really becomes quite pointless and doesn't actually mean anything. What was Rodgers doing before Swansea? What was Pardew doing before Saudi Sportswashing Machine? What was Klopp doing before Dortmund? Too many examples to mention, and it just shows that failure at one club doesn't really mean that a manager won't be the right one for another. Just as hiring a manager that has so far only had success in his previous job - Ramos for example - means he is the right one for us either.
Get the right man in for where we are and where we are looking to go.
Problem? I can justify that comment with ease.
The fact Harry has haters is retarded in itself. The job he did for us compared to what others have done. Even if you thought it was time for a change, there is no reason to hate the man.
But the behaviour and comments of these people on this forum is something else. Lies, twisted truths and complete irrationality is all I have read from this group of people. So, I see no reason why I can't label these people as retards.
And for people who thought Harry did ok but wanted a change, you are not who I am talking about.
Harry lost his job for a number of reasons. Talking the club up wasn't one of them.
You're quite wrong to say that Spurs have little chance of winning the title these days. We had a chance last season, after all. Money isn't everything, as has been proved in Germany and France for the past few seasons. Good management and getting the balance right can be the difference so long as we have good players. And we DO have good players.
The only certainty is that we will never have a chance of winning the title if we never aim for it or if we never believe that we are capable of winning it.
So AVB raising expectations in a consistent and serious manner can only be a good thing.
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However good your intentions, it was still a poor way of making your point.
But let's move on from Harry, eh?
Lost Mango
Allan Nielsen
I see what you are saying, but how many managers can say "if i had got the players i would have done well" (all of them?) ... it doesnt always go to plan and you have to adapt. AVB had a massively talented squad and made a mess of it, not the thing id look for in a manager that has only had 1 previous job in the PL. He had time in the summer to get some players and he did. I know one failure doesnt mean you will fail again, but AVB is a lucky guy considering most managers that performed like he did never had another job again.
If it goes completely wrong, a lot of people will look at us and say "what did you expect ?" Very rare a manager who gets sacked for such poor performances gets another job at a team that finished higher.
And jimmyb - it was a perfect way of making my point. My point was that I find the decision to sack Harry and replace with AVB as a little strange, but I wont be acting like a retread and blaming AVB for everything that happens or use 1 bad thing against him if he has done 100 good things.
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Then I can congratulate you on not being a Harry hating retread. Although this assumes that you recognised his performance as manager and didnt irrationally twist everything he did just because you dont like him.
Although that said, surely the important thing here is what is best for the club... if I dislike AVB as a person but he does well for Spurs, no way will I want him leaving. And not to mention I cant think of anything Harry has ever done for him to be disliked as a person, I've met him, very kind man and called one of our players who was about to leave the ground back to meet a disabled fan after he asked who his fav player was. I've never heard a story about the man that makes me think badly of him.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
I think that's the key for success and failure in football management though, most managers IMO are good, know what they are talking about, have good leadership and organisational skills etc etc but because the club has so many different elements, that's what makes success or failure. Often there's reasons why you can't move on certain players, couldn't get the right player in etc, like the club simply not having the money, or egos in the dressing room, or because one player is a club legend and you can't really move them on too soon so have to try and make them fit. So many different things could affect whether a manager gets the players he needs or not. With us, I don't even think Ramos would have failed as badly as he did had we not sold Keane and Berbatov, or at least replaced them with players other than Pav or Frazier Campbell.
IMO AVB has as much chance of being a perfect success as he does of being a complete failure. His time at Chelsea - and AVB talks about this with the broken promises he alludes to yesterday - seemed to be defined by the fact that Roman brought him in to do a specific job, to clear out certain players and to implement a style of football that would satisfy him. It seems that the players that needed to be moved out weren't, which is what AVB alludes to, and he also didn't get the time to shape the squad as he wanted. He did adapt slightly in certain games, it was noticeable that Chelsea played a slightly different way, but broadly, he was brought in to play a certain way. If he got results playing the way RDM got them playing, Roman would be saying to him 'this is not what I hired you for, I may as well have kept Carlo', so there were all these competing elements that were either going to lead to success or failure.
Good managers fail all the time before finding the right club for them. Klopp, Rodgers, Pardew. Jogi Loew has a couple of relegations on his CV. Wenger has one. Moyes had no outright record of unqualified success before Everton. Jol got sacked from us...I could go right down the PL and find examples of good managers that have failure somewhere in their career. Paul Lambert was sacked from his first job but is now a hot managerial talent. Clubs need to create the right environment for their managers to be successful. If it's a Harry type manager, they need to be given money and they will make the talent perform. If it's manager that has a certain style of play, then they need to try and provide him with the players that suit it. I think that's what Levy has realised, and I think he has constantly learnt from his time with us. I think he thought initially that management was simply about getting the 'best', or the biggest name, but through failures he has realised there is no such thing. He is getting the right man for our club and our capabilities, and donig his best to make him thrive. AVB has talked about it being the right environment too, so I think it will be an excellent match.
Hyperbole much??
Chelsea were 5th when he was sacked. Only a couple of points off 4th. They were also still in the Champions League and FA Cup.
As disasters go, it's hardly up there.
Yes, things went wrong at Chelsea. Yes, he made mistakes. Yes, he failed.
And that's not all bad for us. Because someone who has experienced and learnt from failure is a much surer bet than someone who hasn't.
And let's not take AVB's failure out of context.
He was given a very specific brief to overhaul the Chelsea squad and radically to change their style of play. He was assured that he would have the full backing of the owner in realising those twin aims. And he was further assured that he would be given the time it would take for the changes to work.
He met with stubborn resistance from a squad of players that was set in its ways; that was, in large part, as old as or older than him; that already knew him and thought of him as a junior minion of their guru; that was unsuited to the style of play that he had been employed to introduce; and that, as a consequence of years of winning medals, thought they knew better.
A toxic mix.
And when results and performances consequently suffered, instead of backing AVB and giving him time to fulfill the aims of the long term brief, as had been promised, the owner caved in and sacked him.
Thankfully, there are few, if any, similarities between the situation that AVB inherited at Chelsea and that which he has inherited at Spurs.
I must say that, for someone who claims that you are "fully happy to give AVB a chance", you're not going about it in a very convincing manner!
The Moonlit Knight
Banned
What was it? 4 wins in 14? Regardless of that, context needs to be applied. Chelsea IMO had the best team last year, and certainly had one of the top two teams. Whilst I think Chelsea's sacking of AVB was premature (a Manager deserves at least 3 years, and if he proves himself in those 3 years deserves a couple more at least - something we haven't followed ourselves for years sadly) let's not try and be revisionist and say that being 5th whilst being sack was acceptable. Being 5th and that far off the title pace with arguably the best side in the Premiership isn't exactly something to crow about.
I'm concerned about AVB's appointment and I'll freely admit it. I'll give him every chance and certainly won't be on his back for the first season at least (unless its an absolute disaster, e.g. we're less than 5 points off of the bottom 3 by Xmas) but I have to admit, this blind faith being shown in him already is somewhat nauseating. Especially considering much of it is coming from posters so hungry to get rid of the last Manager. I genuinely hope they got what they wished for. Because if they didn't, we're all going to suffer.