AVB out or not?

[scaramanga]

The only thing more embarrassing than today's result is the large chunk of our fan base that wants instant success and will ignore any related factors.

If this thread were on any other team's forum we'd be linking it here and laughing at how dumb that team's fans are.

 

[Mulletperm]

So this is CL that we've got 2 seasons out of the last 131? Whatever will we do without it?

I really don't get this sense of entitlement. Two bad results and all these Chelsea-esque attitudes come out of the woodwork.

What the hell are you talking about?

I'm sure you appreciate the pull being in the CL brings. Both in terms of finance and the players you can attract/keep.

There's nothing 'Chelsea-esque' about wanting far better performances and wanting to win things. Especially with the ****-load of cash we've spent. If you're happy with mid-table mediocrity then I'm happy for you. Personally I want us to win and to win well, and have done since I started supporting Spurs many, many years ago.

And this isn't just about two bad 'results', it's about far too many inept and blunt performances.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Don't think any of us feel entitled to CL football but feel that with the talent in this squad we should at least be challenging for it. Not only that but we know from years and years of experience that our top players will leave if they want to challenge for major honours, and right now there are 2-3 of them who will be speaking to their agents about the possibility. If you as a supporter want to ever see the club push on and challenge for the top prizes then you know that keeping our best players is a neccessity and as such CL is too.

UNLESS we get a sugar daddy to buy in the best talent from around the world all on £250k a week. Then ECL doesnt mean too much.

There's something much bigger at stake than just this season though. AVB is a man with a vision, who will build a dynasty. Like Nicholson, Burkinshaw, Ferguson and Wenger. The first three of those took three seasons to really shape their sides.

I couldn't cope with throwing all the serious structural reform out the window again and going for a short-termist populist appointment.

 

[scaramanga]

There's something much bigger at stake than just this season though. AVB is a man with a vision, who will build a dynasty. Like Nicholson, Burkinshaw, Ferguson and Wenger. The first three of those took three seasons to really shape their sides.

I couldn't cope with throwing all the serious structural reform out the window again and going for a short-termist populist appointment.

Especially as a short-term 'thinker' will only ever get us clinging onto the coat tails of the big boys, and that's only when we've been incredibly lucky and a good run in transfer windows all comes together.

 

[Mulletperm]

The only thing more embarrassing than today's result is the large chunk of our fan base that wants instant success and will ignore any related factors.

If this thread were on any other team's forum we'd be linking it here and laughing at how dumb that team's fans are.

What are these related factors that contribute to:

- Being beaten 3-0 at home to West Ham
- Scoring 6 goals from open play in 12 matches
- Only scoring more goals than Crystal Palace and Sunderland (the bottom 2)
- Getting smashed and humiliated 6-0

Don't tell me, don't tell me....

It's the players needing time to gel....
It's part of the plan....

 

[El Guepardo]

The only thing more embarrassing than today's result is the large chunk of our fan base that wants instant success and will ignore any related factors.

If this thread were on any other team's forum we'd be linking it here and laughing at how dumb that team's fans are.

After our poor performances this year, including a very embarrassing 3-0 loss at home to West Ham and now, a performance and result which indicates that there is something seriously wrong with our team at the moment. Is it any wonder that fans are pointing fingers?

We've scored 6 goals from open play, look clueless in attack, and pourous at the back if any team dare attack us. And this is what £100m buys, no wonder City had to spend £500m.

 

[scaramanga]

After our poor performances this year, including a very embarrassing 3-0 loss at home to West Ham and now, a performance and result which indicates that there is something seriously wrong with our team at the moment. Is it any wonder that fans are pointing fingers?

We've scored 6 goals from open play, look clueless in attack, and pourous at the back if any team dare attack us. And this is what £100m buys, no wonder City had to spend £500m.

Actually, yes. I thought our fans were more intelligent than West Ham 's and less ****y than Chelsea' s - it seems I was mistaken.

 

[Mulletperm]

There's something much bigger at stake than just this season though. AVB is a man with a vision, who will build a dynasty. Like Nicholson, Burkinshaw, Ferguson and Wenger. The first three of those took three seasons to really shape their sides.

I couldn't cope with throwing all the serious structural reform out the window again and going for a short-termist populist appointment.

Times have changed since Nicholson, Burkinshaw and Ferguson started. Success needs to come quicker, or you lose your best players to teams with seemingly endless supplies of cash.

 

[scaramanga]

Times have changed since Nicholson, Burkinshaw and Ferguson started. Success needs to come quicker, or you lose your best players to teams with seemingly endless supplies of cash.

We don't have a sugar daddy so that's impossible.

 

[Mulletperm]

Actually, yes. I thought our fans were more intelligent than West Ham 's and less ****y than Chelsea' s - it seems I was mistaken.

Scara, you continuously question the intelligence of fans who question AVB's ability. I could question the intelligence of those who seem to think he's the messiah regardless of the fact that our football is currently (and has been for most of his time at WHL) dire.

 

[Mulletperm]

We don't have a sugar daddy so that's impossible.

We had a windfall with the money from Bale. We wouldn't normally have that money, so should be doing everything in our power to push on now.

 

[El Guepardo]

Actually, yes. I thought our fans were more intelligent than West Ham 's and less ****y than Chelsea' s - it seems I was mistaken.

How can you tolerate the garbage that we've been churning out this season? I'd think intelligence had little to do with the reactions that have been witnessed. The facts are as I have spelled them out.

All other sides made transfers, a lot of other sides lost key players and yet, few are playing as laboured as we are. Excuses can be laid out about needing time to gel, injuries and luck but, in the end that's all they are, excuses.

As a good workman doesn't blame his tools. So a good manager should be able to create a team which is able to function successively and which will provide opportunities for the new players to bed in.

Far from laughing at the West Ham and Chelsea fans, I'm far more concerned about how much more of a laughing stock we'll be if we continue along our current path.

What elements of our play have you seen which give merit to AVB's managerial skills this season? Why do you think the decision would be so wrong to let him go? Do you really believe all will suddenly go right, contrary to all evidence which appears to suggest otherwise?

 

[DeanoAustin]

Actually, yes. I thought our fans were more intelligent than West Ham 's and less ****y than Chelsea' s - it seems I was mistaken.

Think that's a bit unfair.

Personally, I want AVB gone. Our performances this season have been dire. Last season was a very similar story. This guy is a busted flush.

I'm not one for just calling for a manager's head. There are a lot of managers over the years I didn't want to go (Jol and Harry the most recent examples) but this guy is wrong for the job. Giving him time won't change that, it'll just make the problem worse. Today we were shambolic, absolutely shambolic. The space City got was unbelievable and how disorganised we were was very worrying. If it was a one off, I'd dismiss it but that result was coming.

We've been impotent all season and for much of last too. If AVB is the wrong man, and I sincerely believe he is a bad fit for the job, then he should be cut loose. Sticking our heads in the sand and quoting "Well Fergie had 4 years..." just doesn't cut it and isn't a valid argument.

 

[Seedy Ron]

There's something much bigger at stake than just this season though. AVB is a man with a vision, who will build a dynasty. Like Nicholson, Burkinshaw, Ferguson and Wenger. The first three of those took three seasons to really shape their sides.

I couldn't cope with throwing all the serious structural reform out the window again and going for a short-termist populist appointment.

Isn't that Baldi's raison d'etre GB?

 

[NWND]

Especially as a short-term 'thinker' will only ever get us clinging onto the coat tails of the big boys, and that's only when we've been incredibly lucky and a good run in transfer windows all comes together.

But surely AVB doesn't look capable of fashioning a successful side long-term? I mean I'm all for developing a long-term vision, but not when the person is incapable of improving the side and we are being dragged backwards.

How long do you give him? If we get battered 3-0 at home to Man U and then lose away to Sunderland and draw with Fulham will you stick with him waiting for 'his plan' to appear?

 

[chancer]

Voted no.

It bugs me a bit that pretty much 100% of people said at the start of the season "It'll take time", only for many now to bale out after 12 games. "It'll take time" either means something or it doesn't, so for me we need balls bigger than 12 games.

I'm as freaked out as anyone by today's fiasco, and even moreso by the horrible body language of the players, but since we are where we are we might as well go the course for this season.

 

[thfcsteff]

Voted no.

It bugs me a bit that pretty much 100% of people said at the start of the season "It'll take time", only for many now to bale out after 12 games. "It'll take time" either means something or it doesn't, so for me we need balls bigger than 12 games.

I'm as freaked out as anyone by today's fiasco, and even moreso by the horrible body language of the players, but since we are where we are we might as well go the course for this season.

Great post...the only thing that changes it is if he has lost the players, which will become apparent if agents start leaking **** to the rags over the coming days...

 

[Modric THFC]

There's something much bigger at stake than just this season though. AVB is a man with a vision, who will build a dynasty. Like Nicholson, Burkinshaw, Ferguson and Wenger. The first three of those took three seasons to really shape their sides.

I couldn't cope with throwing all the serious structural reform out the window again and going for a short-termist populist appointment.

There's no evidence of that at all. This is the first time he's in his second season at a club.
He's a manager with an agent who was touting his name round Napoli and PSG last summer.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Voted no.

It bugs me a bit that pretty much 100% of people said at the start of the season "It'll take time", only for many now to bale out after 12 games. "It'll take time" either means something or it doesn't, so for me we need balls bigger than 12 games.

I'm as freaked out as anyone by today's fiasco, and even moreso by the horrible body language of the players, but since we are where we are we might as well go the course for this season.

People expected narrow losses, and they could just about stomach bad performances.

The two of them together (Saudi Sportswashing Machine) unnerved some:despite what they said, I'm not sure they imagined we would be that bad given our enormous spending.

And when bad performances accompany scorelines like yesterday's utterly shameful disgrace, people's patience starts to snap.

I imagine most people assumed we would scrape draws and narrow victories while looking like we were improving every game.

The reality is that we look like we are going backwards at speed while getting worse and worse with every passing week. No one expected us to lose 3-0 at home against West Ham, or 6-0 (SIX!) against City away. Those results would shake even the sternest of hearts. And combined with our awful performances in those games, I can see why people are beginning to want AVB out with a passion.

Me, I'll give him till the end of the season. But forgive me if I don't go into matches expecting much from this point on: a sort of weary hope will now inform my viewing.

 

[Daisuk]

Voted no.

It bugs me a bit that pretty much 100% of people said at the start of the season "It'll take time", only for many now to bale out after 12 games. "It'll take time" either means something or it doesn't, so for me we need balls bigger than 12 games.

I'm as freaked out as anyone by today's fiasco, and even moreso by the horrible body language of the players, but since we are where we are we might as well go the course for this season.

If there were any signs of improvements to our game, or signs to tell us that we were gradually getting there, then "taking the time" would be the obvious thing to do. I still think he should be given more time to turn things around, but if there are still no signs of us improving after say another 10 games (if we're for instance still averaging 0.5 goals from open play a game), and the players looking as lost as yesterday, then there will come a point where there will be nothing to do but to sack him. I think the main thing for a lot of people are how incredibly dull we look in front of goal. If we just start playing a more aggressive attacking football soon, we can score a few goals, things can turn around quickly. But we need to at least see signs of us consistently trying to attack more aggressively (we did against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, for instance).

But it doesn't really matter what we as fans think if he has lost the dressing room. If it ever comes to that, then there's not going to be a point of return.