Champions League 2016/17 - Group E: CSKA Moscow, Bayer Leverkusen, Monaco

[Rorschach]

I agree that getting into the CL is important but for me not to the detriment of everything else ( ie giving up the chasing of trophys), how long will it take us to be able to win the CL, lets be honest both the Arse and Chelski have thrown millions at it and apart from Chelski fluking it once the its not happened.

And those who think we should not bother or cope with the EL because of all the extra games we would have to play, well I have asked the question how many games will it take to win the CL if you have to qualify? it really is not that much difference. If we can not cope with that many games what happens next year for us, do we risk blowing the chance of a run at the Prem title by concentrating on the CL or do we blow our games in the CL and go for the Prem. Because according to some we can not do both.

No not to the detriment of everthing else but a couple of CL campaigns will help step us up the ladder. It will hopefully make us more compeditive across the board if it is managed correctly. We're not gonna win the CL anytime soon but the boost CL particpation would give the club is worth it for a few years. Even Arsenal have won a few trophies recently. Anyway as I say I still would prefer trophies but do see the point of CL qualification for a few seasons.

 

[glasgowspur]

For now getting CL is more important than any of the cups. Only CL will help us attract the quality of players to consistently challenge for trophies.
It's a road we need to travel.

 

[alekaras]

Can not agree with that, winning is all about winning things and puting trophys in the cabinet. Unfortuately in todays game so many think finishing among the runners up (top four) is what its all about.

Funny how most of us used to take the tinkle out of the Arse for getting top four but never actually winning anything for so many years. We are in the CL next season and it will be interesting to see what we do, will we lose out on challenging for the Prem by concentrating on the CL or will we give up on the CL to try and win the Prem. The reason I ask because according to some fans we can not do both ( what with all the extra games and the traveling.

I accept that my views are in the minority and it has nothing to do with the myths that surround playing in the EL.

It's not an either/or. Rather, it's a progression. Since we're not a billionaire-backed club, we need to finish among the runners up to secure the resources that will allow us to be able to become even more competitive and eventually win trophies. And be able to do that, while at the same time sustaining our elevated position, which will allow us to continue having the resources to build and maintain a deeper squad that can compete on multiple fronts with an equal chance of success. Baby steps, mate. We'll get there.

 

[Craig_J]

Can not agree with that, winning is all about winning things and puting trophys in the cabinet. Unfortuately in todays game so many think finishing among the runners up (top four) is what its all about.

Funny how most of us used to take the tinkle out of the Arse for getting top four but never actually winning anything for so many years. We are in the CL next season and it will be interesting to see what we do, will we lose out on challenging for the Prem by concentrating on the CL or will we give up on the CL to try and win the Prem. The reason I ask because according to some fans we can not do both ( what with all the extra games and the traveling.

I accept that my views are in the minority and it has nothing to do with the myths that surround playing in the EL.

PL, you lament this point over and over again. You even mentioned it when we went out to Dortmund but had a fantastically genuinely brilliant chance of winning the league. Will it ever stop?

I hope you won't mind me pointing out that your one of the older members of the forum. In the nicest way possible you remind me of one of my grandparents with rose tinted specs who rant on about how in the old days it was better, you could go down the pub and get hammered, pick up a couple of pints of milk, get your newspapers, all for under a quid and could leave your door unlocked all day knowing only kind old uncle Jimmy Savile might turn up!!!

No one is saying the FA Cup is unimportant, nor that being a runner up is more important. I'm a lad born in 93 and the fans I know both of this team and others respect the FA Cup massively. But the Champions League is a multi million pound competition. Last time I checked, FA Cup winners only pocket about £1.5m in cash.

Please be honest and answer me what is more likely to generate us a load of trophies? Finishing in the top 4 and picking up multi millions or having the odd good season every decade and wining a singular trophy?

All of us want to win trophies. None of us will be doing jumping jacks and wearing shirts saying "Tottenham Hotspur - 2nd - 15/16 season". But the game has moved on. Look at City/ Chelsea/ Arsenal who have all won FA Cup trophies because their squads have been regularly in the Champions League and they can afford the strength in depth to cope with the rigours or the modern game on multiple fronts.

A lot of United mates of mine are starting to get very frustrated with their failure to win a FA Cup in over a decade. That alone tells you that fans aren't happy with finishing amongst the runners up as opposed to winning trophies. But if you honestly think it's better to focus on winning a singular annual competition rather than getting the type of cash that can set us up to win singular annual competitions for years to come, than I sincerely hope you get the psychological help you deserve.

Because it's madness to suggest that a nice year or two is worth sacrificing a potential couple of decades worth of dominance for.

 

[Baleforce]

No one is saying the FA Cup is unimportant, nor that being a runner up is more important. I'm a lad born in 93 and the fans I know both of this team and others respect the FA Cup massively. But the Champions League is a multi million pound competition. Last time I checked, FA Cup winners only pocket about £1.5m in cash.

I am, to be honest.

 

[Craig_J]

I am, to be honest.

Yes. I remember you saying that. Personally I like the competition. Oldest one in the world and has a grand history. The game has evolved the way it was supposed to and now the Champions League has taken the throne as the biggest trophy at club level. But the FA Cup is still very much a major trophy IMO.

Out of genuine interest, before Arsenal bagged themselves a couple of FA Cups, would you still have the same opinion that you have today?

 

[King of Norway]

Being third seeded it will be extremely difficult to progress. It's not right for me that teams that finish 3rd and 4th get seeded ahead of the team that finishes second (of course, that might not be us). No logic in that at all. They did change the rule so that the team that wins the league is top seeded, but why not do the right thing all the way?

 

[AdamB]

Being third seeded it will be extremely difficult to progress. It's not right for me that teams that finish 3rd and 4th get seeded ahead of the team that finishes second (of course, that might not be us). No logic in that at all. They did change the rule so that the team that wins the league is top seeded, but why not do the right thing all the way?

Agreed - we'll have a difficult group so GB's comment earlier that we should easily be able to make the quarter finals is ridiculous

 

[Baleforce]

Yes. I remember you saying that. Personally I like the competition. Oldest one in the world and has a grand history. The game has evolved the way it was supposed to and now the Champions League has taken the throne as the biggest trophy at club level. But the FA Cup is still very much a major trophy IMO.

Out of genuine interest, before Arsenal bagged themselves a couple of FA Cups, would you still have the same opinion that you have today?

Yeah, my opinion has shifted over the last decade as the importance of CL participation and financial power has increased. The prestige of the FA Cup is based on what it was rather than what it is.

 

[P.D.]

Being third seeded it will be extremely difficult to progress. It's not right for me that teams that finish 3rd and 4th get seeded ahead of the team that finishes second (of course, that might not be us). No logic in that at all. They did change the rule so that the team that wins the league is top seeded, but why not do the right thing all the way?

I think the seeding is fair now, was ridiculous before when Arsenal never got beyond the last 16 but were always top seeds. There has to be some reward for performing well over prior seasons in Europe.

 

[parklane1]

It's not an either/or. Rather, it's a progression. Since we're not a billionaire-backed club, we need to finish among the runners up to secure the resources that will allow us to be able to become even more competitive and eventually win trophies. And be able to do that, while at the same time sustaining our elevated position, which will allow us to continue having the resources to build and maintain a deeper squad that can compete on multiple fronts with an equal chance of success. Baby steps, mate. We'll get there.

I understand that mate I really do, but I am not getting any younger and I would like to see a few more trophys won before I get too old to celebrate them.

 

[alekaras]

I understand that mate I really do, but I am not getting any younger and I would like to see a few more trophys won before I get too old to celebrate them.

I think you're young enough that you will. I fully expect us to win a trophy in the next couple of years.

 

[glorygloryeze]

I think it's quite clear that we are going to get a HORRID group...

 

[parklane1]

PL, you lament this point over and over again. You even mentioned it when we went out to Dortmund but had a fantastically genuinely brilliant chance of winning the league. Will it ever stop?

I hope you won't mind me pointing out that your one of the older members of the forum. In the nicest way possible you remind me of one of my grandparents with rose tinted specs who rant on about how in the old days it was better, you could go down the pub and get hammered, pick up a couple of pints of milk, get your newspapers, all for under a quid and could leave your door unlocked all day knowing only kind old uncle Jimmy Savile might turn up!!!

No one is saying the FA Cup is unimportant, nor that being a runner up is more important. I'm a lad born in 93 and the fans I know both of this team and others respect the FA Cup massively. But the Champions League is a multi million pound competition. Last time I checked, FA Cup winners only pocket about £1.5m in cash.

Please be honest and answer me what is more likely to generate us a load of trophies? Finishing in the top 4 and picking up multi millions or having the odd good season every decade and wining a singular trophy?

All of us want to win trophies. None of us will be doing jumping jacks and wearing shirts saying "Tottenham Hotspur - 2nd - 15/16 season". But the game has moved on. Look at City/ Chelsea/ Arsenal who have all won FA Cup trophies because their squads have been regularly in the Champions League and they can afford the strength in depth to cope with the rigours or the modern game on multiple fronts.

A lot of United mates of mine are starting to get very frustrated with their failure to win a FA Cup in over a decade. That alone tells you that fans aren't happy with finishing amongst the runners up as opposed to winning trophies. But if you honestly think it's better to focus on winning a singular annual competition rather than getting the type of cash that can set us up to win singular annual competitions for years to come, than I sincerely hope you get the psychological help you deserve.

Because it's madness to suggest that a nice year or two is worth sacrificing a potential couple of decades worth of dominance for.

You are right I am probably the oldest member of this forum and I accept the game has moved on, however I was brought up and played several sports ( at a high level) and the purpose was ( and still is) that you aim to win and collect winners medals. Now correct me if I am wrong but I do not think the Arse have any medals to show fot being able to qualify ( 19 times is it?) for the Champs Lge.

And I can assure you I do not wear rose tinted glasses just as I do not wear blue tinted ones when our club/players screw up ( see the thread about some of our player actions against Chelski), I call it as I see it and there are many fans who consider finishing among the runners up is better then winning things and all you have to do is look at the Arse to see that it does not work. And to pick up on another of your points I do not think I have said anywhere that we should focus on a singular annual competition ( but it seems like some are with finishing in the top four?) We should aim to win everything we enter for ( after all going back to my first point) because is that not why we compete in sport?.

As for your last point go and ask the Arse fans want their decade of qualifying for the top four has enabled them to do.

 

[parklane1]

I think you're young enough that you will. I fully expect us to win a trophy in the next couple of years.

I do not disagree that may be true, but I wish I had a pound for every time I have heard that from a Spurs supporter during my time supporting them.

 

[AdamB]

I think it's quite clear that we are going to get a HORRID group...

Who cares?!? We wont win the competition so have no problem having some massive games, going out in the group stages to Bayern, Real and Roma and then focussing on the league to get top 3 or 4 again next year

Its all a building process and establishing ourselves in the top 4. In fact, qualifying for the CL again for the following year is more important that doing well in the CL next year

 

[Jordinho]

Who cares?!? We wont win the competition so have no problem having some massive games, going out in the group stages to Bayern, Real and Roma and then focussing on the league to get top 3 or 4 again next year

Its all a building process and establishing ourselves in the top 4. In fact, qualifying for the CL again for the following year is more important that doing well in the CL next year

I hope and think we can progress beyond the group stage, even if we finish 3rd we still go into the EL, but we really can't let the league slide the way we did last time. Qualify again and solidify our position.

 

[Jordinho]

Yeah, my opinion has shifted over the last decade as the importance of CL participation and financial power has increased. The prestige of the FA Cup is based on what it was rather than what it is.

Get rid of the league cup and the FA cup instantly becomes a little bit more important. Maybe squeeze in a winter break. Right now it comes in at a time when the top clubs have had a full schedule for months and could use a rest.

 

[Baleforce]

Get rid of the league cup and the FA cup instantly becomes a little bit more important. Maybe squeeze in a winter break. Right now it comes in at a time when the top clubs have had a full schedule for months and could use a rest.

i'd rather keep the league cup, it's out of the way before the serious business begins

 

[elyid]

The final is good news for us, as means one of Real Madrid or Atletico Madrid will move to pot 1 as winners.

So based on Jordinho's predictions, we can only draw Dortmund, Porto, Napoli, Leverkusen (or whoever loses the final)

Considering Pot 2 is the team we need to beat to qualify, that's not too shabby - then hopefully a glamour tie from pot 1.