thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
OK mate. Peace and out...
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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo
- Thread starter tommysvr
- Start date
OK mate. Peace and out...
Better for the fans maybe that didn't want to get stick from gooners. Not for the club.
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tommysvr
Simon Davies
There was a chance it would turn out better for the club. But the bigger chance is that we still ended up 5th.
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
I've still yet to see where he told anyone what to feel. I saw him say what he didn't feel and didn't 'get'. Positionally speaking, are you referring to VdV at LB? I'd say that is an anomaly. Shape-wise? Midfield was more of a box to oush City wide, but the intent of our play was exactly the same as he has wanted it all season, nothing different there at all. What I find interesting is to note the intent of those who were there in terms of fast progression and bravery versus that of some in previous defeats.
Winning we would have secured 5th place and el football. With a chance of getting cl football next season. Now we have to get at least a point just to secure 5th. If we lose we could end up in the conference league.
Being in the champions league is better for the club than conference. A difference of £100m in turnover lost from not being in the cl. Villa gain it.
That isn't opinion.
It also isn't the whole picture.
tommysvr
Simon Davies
The manager's opinion is very strongly that he is not bothered whether we qualified for the Champions League or not. I don't think you can criticise fans who feel the same way.
Where have i criticised them?
tommysvr
Simon Davies
What point are you making then?
The word support. Wanting your team to lose isn't support.
I can understand why the fans felt that way. I disagree. But i won't criticise them for it. But using the word support in that context is wrong. It isn't.
90291Spur
Paul Walsh
He definitely said that bragging rights weren't important. He didn't clarify that they weren't important to him and that he could understand that they could be important to some lifelong fans. He talked about fragility 'outside' the club, and didn't define that.
Positionally I am definitely referring to the 4-2-2-2 or whatever it was with Sarr often being the middle man at the front, and VdV as more of a trad LB rather than an inverted. I also mean that he finally stopped playing Royal as an inverted LB.
I don't doubt the intent, the bravery, the adherence to the build from the back philosophy, and the style of play. But those things aren't formation or personnel. They're feelings, emotions, application. But it's a bit rum, and human, that he loses his cool like he did post Emirates Marketing Project. Fram what I saw we played with bravery and passion. And some, including me, were happy with the result. I also think, as I've said before, the the EL is a better competition for where we are right now.
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
I'd implore you to read transcripts again. The pertinent quotes are below.
I understand that he has upset some people. However, between the recently revealed 'staff jokes' and numpties like the one who went on about throwing the match at him from behind the benches, I'd have been unhappy if found it all a bit of a giggle.
I personally think some of our support base is fragile; forget last night, the reactivity to short term issues has been immense for sometime from some corners. I equally understand our pain - I've felt it too. But the bloke has said he is trying to change things, so its a buy in IMO.
As for false 9 formation, I think he found himself in a corner with Richarlison's late injury. I think he only played VdV that way because he didn't want those kite strings to pop. I feel the overall intent and purpose was exactly the same as it has been all season. Just my take.
IMO, those priciples and styles are executed far more easily with a certain formation, and he has decided that he wants inverted FBs and wide wide men. His 6 is vital - has to be brave on the initial ball - and his 8s and 10s equally brave in looking to progress at all times. He gets furious when players hesitate, square ball each other, allow the opposition to re-settle, or when they're sitting deep, cause us to sit off. He feels that repeating over and over again will lead to perfect execution, and has decided against formation-tinkering. Again, that's my view.
IMO we should always be aiming for the best competition we can and aiming to win.
I think backing the manager is absolutely vital IF we believe in him. On and off the pitch. If we don't, then it won't work.
Here are those quotes mate...be well.
"The foundations are really fragile," he exclaimed. "The last 48 hours have shown me that.
"It's inside the club, outside the club. Outside, inside, everywhere. It's been an interesting exercise.
"It's just my observations, mate."
Asked whether the flat atmosphere inside the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium affected his players, Postecoglou replied: "Of course it does. It is what it is. I can't dictate what people do.
"They're allowed to express themselves any way they want. But yeah, when we've got late winners in games it's because the crowd's helped us."
On the Spurs fans' chants, which included anti-Arsenal songs and some supporters doing the Poznan, the 58-year-old added: "I'm not interested, mate. I just don't care. Maybe I'm out of step, but I just don't care, I just want to win.
"I want to be successful at this football club, it's why I was brought in. So what other people, how they want to feel, and what their priorities are, are of zero interest to me.
"I know what's important to build a winning team - that's what I need to concentrate on."
SteveAWOL
Colin Calderwood
FWIW…
‘I scored and thought: this could be the worst move of my career’
Les Ferdinand feared his goal had won the title for Tottenham’s bitter rivals Arsenal – 25 years on, the Spurs players and supporters face a similar dilemma against Emirates Marketing Project
www.thetimes.co.uk
Back in May 1999, Tottenham were in a similar predicament on the final day of the season: a win or draw at Old Trafford against Manchester United would open the door for Arsène Wenger’s Arsenal to retain the title if they beat Aston Villa at home. Sir Alex Ferguson’s side were bidding to complete the first part of a Treble, having missed out on a possible Quadruple when defeated by Tottenham in the Worthington Cup earlier in the campaign.
A bizarre few hours of warped loyalty was summed up by a banner outside Highbury which read: “C’mon you Tottenham scum”. In another twist of fate the Tottenham manager, George Graham, was a former Arsenal player and manager, and disliked by a section of the Spurs fan base for that reason. Graham teased everyone by saying he would name José Dominguez, a 5ft 3in winger, as substitute goalkeeper. “Nobody wants to win any game more than I do,” Graham said. “I hate losing a friendly match. We’ll be going to try to win — whatever that means to anybody else.”
Tottenham arrived at Old Trafford without a win in four matches, having already qualified for Europe by winning the Worthington Cup. David Ginola, their PFA player of the year, went off with a calf injury before Les Ferdinand stretched to meet Steffen Iversen’s flick and lobbed Peter Schmeichel to give them the lead after 24 minutes.
“I scored at Old Trafford, and not many did at that time, and thought, ‘Bloody hell what have I done here, this could go down in history as the worst move of my career,’ ’’ Ferdinand says. “The home fans went silent and the pocket of Tottenham fans half-celebrated; they didn’t want to celebrate. “From then on as a player, you are willing Man United to score, it was strange. In the week before, Spurs fans came up and said, ‘We don’t mind you losing this game.’ ”
Ferdinand, who was a boyhood Tottenham fan, turned around and was embraced by Iversen and Dominguez. The forward had struck for the first time in the calendar year after a season disrupted by injury. “My job was to score goals and my initial thought was to run away and celebrate. Then reality kicked in and I thought, ‘If Arsenal win, they win the title,’ ” he says. “You are professional and there was not one player in the team who did not want to win due to Arsenal. It will be the same when Tottenham play City and I don’t see Spurs players downing tools because they don’t want Arsenal to win the title.”
90291Spur
Paul Walsh
Thanks, Steff. I was referring to earlier in the season quotes about fan expectations. And I said it elsewhere, but he is a recent employee of this multi-million pound corporation and has his own requirements for his job. But many of us are multiple decades in, having to live day ind day out with Gooners. We can all choose our reactions to what happens on the pitch and in the league. And while we SHOULD support the team in person, seeing a loss against Emirates Marketing Project as a win-win is also, IMO, legit.
And I am solidly behind what Ange is trying to do, and understand that he is in need of players who suit his style, and getting proper, committed buy ins from those players he currently has. But his reaction in the post match presser - especially;
"The foundations are really fragile," he exclaimed. "The last 48 hours have shown me that.
"It's inside the club, outside the club. Outside, inside, everywhere. It's been an interesting exercise.
are a darn sight removed from his usual, no-nonsense, straight up statements.
thanks for the quotes.
What has remained after the game is the subtext and tone of what Ange said. He’s human, that is to be expected. If he’d talked about how well the team had played, the positives we could take, and that while some fans may want one result, his job is to win football matches, we’d be discussing other things.
Instead he went ‘a bit Conte’, didn’t keep the calm he’s kept all year, and here we are.
I hope he’s backed properly in the summer, and that next year is better (5th this year and some of the football have been amazing).
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
Haha - 34, so just a couple of years older than you, mate.How old are you yourself?
I’m 30 so was too young to remember the 99 win. All I have is 2008.
Did know it could be a rarity but am disappointed I’ve more than doubled in age and the only winner I’ve seen us get was a deflection of Woodys face
Likewise, I'm going to hit that mark myself in a couple of years - I was 18 when we won that Carling Cup, and will be 36 having seen us win absolutely f*ck all since.
Christ, that's a thought. Hadn't considered it that way. Yeesh.
metalgear
Nayim
angie losing his cool with fans mid game and a minor outburst (i feel) with the press. its not unlike our previous coaches and indicative of how stressful the job is being spurs manager with lofty expectations but without the funding to match.
i don't fault him for wanting to win, but, i would have saved our best players to ensure we win the final game. this is a really good Emirates Marketing Project side and we are in year #1 with ange, so unlikely to beat them home and away, especially given current form.
still, if its his way of getting a gauge of size of the challenge then i welcome it and i am glad to see him making noises for levy/board regarding the need for changes ( better players) and investments to match the lofty ambitions. afterall it was levy who said we still can't compete financially and is seeking to raise funds by selling a stake.
5th is still an improvement over last season and maybe 5th is as realistic a target until a new injection of funds come in, or we unearth a few gems from the academy or new recruits.
at this stage i think with a good man manager in ange and with so many positions that need strengthening/options, we need to incrementally up our game on the academny or through heavy player trading instead of getting betting a large part of funding on the next big thing. then relieve the pressure on ange by setting a reasonable target ( like 5th again, this time with europe tournament) so that he won't give up (like the previous two) but take the time to improve "the foundations" of the squad.
i don't fault him for wanting to win, but, i would have saved our best players to ensure we win the final game. this is a really good Emirates Marketing Project side and we are in year #1 with ange, so unlikely to beat them home and away, especially given current form.
still, if its his way of getting a gauge of size of the challenge then i welcome it and i am glad to see him making noises for levy/board regarding the need for changes ( better players) and investments to match the lofty ambitions. afterall it was levy who said we still can't compete financially and is seeking to raise funds by selling a stake.
5th is still an improvement over last season and maybe 5th is as realistic a target until a new injection of funds come in, or we unearth a few gems from the academy or new recruits.
at this stage i think with a good man manager in ange and with so many positions that need strengthening/options, we need to incrementally up our game on the academny or through heavy player trading instead of getting betting a large part of funding on the next big thing. then relieve the pressure on ange by setting a reasonable target ( like 5th again, this time with europe tournament) so that he won't give up (like the previous two) but take the time to improve "the foundations" of the squad.
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
Appreciate the response mate.
I don't agree with the 'a bit Conte' line, I have heard him as prickly several times before. Conte threw the players and everyone under the bus, Ange normally takes responsibility when a result has been poor. Against City we played well and were absolutely undone by details.
I think his reaction was an instant emotional response to having been barracked from behind the benches among other things.
I still have't really seen any direct 'you should not want us to lose football matches' quotes from him, more than him expressing his feelings that he doesn't get it but each to their own.
I think the 'fragile foundations' comment was absolutely in order, I think he's right personally.
As you said, we can all choose our reactions. I, like you, am decades in and know gooners. I am not unhappy that we have virtually denied them the title, but still wish we'd won the match because I always want us to win.
I appreciate that in some parts (seemingly these) it makes me a minority.
Like you mate, I hope he gets the chance to work.
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
FWIW…
‘I scored and thought: this could be the worst move of my career’
Les Ferdinand feared his goal had won the title for Tottenham’s bitter rivals Arsenal – 25 years on, the Spurs players and supporters face a similar dilemma against Emirates Marketing Project
Back in May 1999, Tottenham were in a similar predicament on the final day of the season: a win or draw at Old Trafford against Manchester United would open the door for Arsène Wenger’s Arsenal to retain the title if they beat Aston Villa at home. Sir Alex Ferguson’s side were bidding to complete the first part of a Treble, having missed out on a possible Quadruple when defeated by Tottenham in the Worthington Cup earlier in the campaign.
A bizarre few hours of warped loyalty was summed up by a banner outside Highbury which read: “C’mon you Tottenham scum”. In another twist of fate the Tottenham manager, George Graham, was a former Arsenal player and manager, and disliked by a section of the Spurs fan base for that reason. Graham teased everyone by saying he would name José Dominguez, a 5ft 3in winger, as substitute goalkeeper. “Nobody wants to win any game more than I do,” Graham said. “I hate losing a friendly match. We’ll be going to try to win — whatever that means to anybody else.”
Tottenham arrived at Old Trafford without a win in four matches, having already qualified for Europe by winning the Worthington Cup. David Ginola, their PFA player of the year, went off with a calf injury before Les Ferdinand stretched to meet Steffen Iversen’s flick and lobbed Peter Schmeichel to give them the lead after 24 minutes.
“I scored at Old Trafford, and not many did at that time, and thought, ‘Bloody hell what have I done here, this could go down in history as the worst move of my career,’ ’’ Ferdinand says. “The home fans went silent and the pocket of Tottenham fans half-celebrated; they didn’t want to celebrate. “From then on as a player, you are willing Man United to score, it was strange. In the week before, Spurs fans came up and said, ‘We don’t mind you losing this game.’ ”
Ferdinand, who was a boyhood Tottenham fan, turned around and was embraced by Iversen and Dominguez. The forward had struck for the first time in the calendar year after a season disrupted by injury. “My job was to score goals and my initial thought was to run away and celebrate. Then reality kicked in and I thought, ‘If Arsenal win, they win the title,’ ” he says. “You are professional and there was not one player in the team who did not want to win due to Arsenal. It will be the same when Tottenham play City and I don’t see Spurs players downing tools because they don’t want Arsenal to win the title.”
Interesting times indeed, I remember this well.
The difference IMO is that social media didn't spread such divisive views, we had little to play for and no actual set plan or path as to what we were trying to do as a football club. Our manager at the time was a disgraceful appointment and someone I despised.
Jurgen the German
Tommy Harmer
You’re missing the point. Even if we had won on Tuesday it wasn’t in our hands. I think many of the fanbase could have lived with Arsenal winning the league if we had secured the top 4 but what good would it have done if we had won on Tuesday and then Villa won on Sunday anyway?