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Victimpool FC - Klopp leaving, grown men crying
- Thread starter southstand1882
- Start date
Re: O/T Mark Halsey
Seriously?!?! Why not take the screen shot a few seconds before when they were both flying in with two feet? They both deserved a red. Don't make out Shelvey was hard done by. It was Evans that got away with it.
I mean really?
Seriously?!?! Why not take the screen shot a few seconds before when they were both flying in with two feet? They both deserved a red. Don't make out Shelvey was hard done by. It was Evans that got away with it.
Ganter
Erik Edman
Re: O/T Mark Halsey
to be serious, that red card was a split second decision. Both raised their booths, maybe he was more focused on Shelvey since he did not have the ball.
The penalty decision was right
Liverpool need to go on, this is being blown out of the water just because it was United
to be serious, that red card was a split second decision. Both raised their booths, maybe he was more focused on Shelvey since he did not have the ball.
The penalty decision was right
Liverpool need to go on, this is being blown out of the water just because it was United
Kingdawson
Banned
Re: O/T Mark Halsey
He didn't want to give us that. The lino gave it not him.
Anyone who has that full match have a look at Halsey when terry goes up to him to question the pen. He shrugs his shoulders then looks at the linesman's direction as if to say "he gave the pen and i don't know why".
He didn't want to give us that. The lino gave it not him.
Anyone who has that full match have a look at Halsey when terry goes up to him to question the pen. He shrugs his shoulders then looks at the linesman's direction as if to say "he gave the pen and i don't know why".
jts1882
Dean Richards
Re: O/T Mark Halsey
Both are lunging in dangerously. Evans had both feet off the ground. Move Shelvey's right foot slightly forward and he catches the studs on Evans' right foot, move it back and he gets the left. Slightly different timing would have reversed who fouled who. Both were reckless so both should have been sent off for dangerous play, although such a double sending off would be unusual.
I mean really?
Both are lunging in dangerously. Evans had both feet off the ground. Move Shelvey's right foot slightly forward and he catches the studs on Evans' right foot, move it back and he gets the left. Slightly different timing would have reversed who fouled who. Both were reckless so both should have been sent off for dangerous play, although such a double sending off would be unusual.
braineclipse
Willie Hall
Re: O/T Mark Halsey
What you don't see from a still photo is how much force or momentum the players are going in with.
From what I could see Shelvey went in with a lot more force into his tackle than Evans did. That's the difference for me.
What you don't see from a still photo is how much force or momentum the players are going in with.
From what I could see Shelvey went in with a lot more force into his tackle than Evans did. That's the difference for me.
jts1882
Dean Richards
Re: O/T Mark Halsey
Fair enough, he deserved the red more. I don't think anyone can question that Shelvey deserved his red. But with the new interpretations for eliminating dangerous tackles, both have to be red card offences. Evans shouldn't get a reprieve because Shelvey's was worse. The Kompany red last January when he made a clean tackle is an example of a red for a less dangerous lunge than Evans' yesterday.
Fair enough, he deserved the red more. I don't think anyone can question that Shelvey deserved his red. But with the new interpretations for eliminating dangerous tackles, both have to be red card offences. Evans shouldn't get a reprieve because Shelvey's was worse. The Kompany red last January when he made a clean tackle is an example of a red for a less dangerous lunge than Evans' yesterday.
Baleforce
Martin Peters
Re: O/T Mark Halsey
I thought Evans should have been booked for showing his studs, but that's a straight red for Shelvey no question, he was airborne at speed, Evans had much more control of his body. Shelvey's lunge was wild, look how far away from the ball his leading leg is, also you can't tell from the pic but he rakes his studs all the way up in the inside of Evan's leg, it was nasty and intentional.
RVP did show his studs but he'd played the ball about 20 minutes before he got anywhere near the Liverpool player, not even a free kick for me.
As for the pen, well he clatters into Valencia from behind just as he is bringing his leg back to shoot, pretty stonewall.
Lastly, those twitter comments are a disgrace, on a day when they expect the world to show them respect they abuse someone for being racially abused and wish cancer on someone else, stay classy Liverpool.
I thought Evans should have been booked for showing his studs, but that's a straight red for Shelvey no question, he was airborne at speed, Evans had much more control of his body. Shelvey's lunge was wild, look how far away from the ball his leading leg is, also you can't tell from the pic but he rakes his studs all the way up in the inside of Evan's leg, it was nasty and intentional.
RVP did show his studs but he'd played the ball about 20 minutes before he got anywhere near the Liverpool player, not even a free kick for me.
As for the pen, well he clatters into Valencia from behind just as he is bringing his leg back to shoot, pretty stonewall.
Lastly, those twitter comments are a disgrace, on a day when they expect the world to show them respect they abuse someone for being racially abused and wish cancer on someone else, stay classy Liverpool.
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
Re: O/T Mark Halsey
Noticed yesterday Halsey was still wearing a Livestrong bracelet like a grade A macaron.
Noticed yesterday Halsey was still wearing a Livestrong bracelet like a grade A macaron.
Re: O/T Mark Halsey
I would have hated those decisions as a Spurs fan, but that's because when Spurs play I see all events through the "Spurs lens" that somewhat clouds ordinary decision making.
As a neutral I can quite happily say that he got everything major right. Evans probably should have had a yellow but his knees weren't locked, he didn't go in with excessive force and he was on the ground at the point of contact. The pikey was off the ground, went in with enough force to really hurt a player and looked to direct his studs at Evans's shin at the last moment. I would have given Evans a yellow, but the red was right.
As for the penalties, watch Suarez at full speed, it's ridiculous. He should have been booked for that as it was disgusting - maybe there was contact, but if you throw yourself to the ground like that then you should expect the referee to call a dive. For Valencia's one, just look at Johnson's reaction and it will tell you everything you need to know. Johnson knew when he made that tackle it was either a great one or a penalty - coming from that angle there's no other possibility. He know's it's a pen the moment he doesn't get the ball.
I would have hated those decisions as a Spurs fan, but that's because when Spurs play I see all events through the "Spurs lens" that somewhat clouds ordinary decision making.
As a neutral I can quite happily say that he got everything major right. Evans probably should have had a yellow but his knees weren't locked, he didn't go in with excessive force and he was on the ground at the point of contact. The pikey was off the ground, went in with enough force to really hurt a player and looked to direct his studs at Evans's shin at the last moment. I would have given Evans a yellow, but the red was right.
As for the penalties, watch Suarez at full speed, it's ridiculous. He should have been booked for that as it was disgusting - maybe there was contact, but if you throw yourself to the ground like that then you should expect the referee to call a dive. For Valencia's one, just look at Johnson's reaction and it will tell you everything you need to know. Johnson knew when he made that tackle it was either a great one or a penalty - coming from that angle there's no other possibility. He know's it's a pen the moment he doesn't get the ball.
braineclipse
Willie Hall
Re: O/T Mark Halsey
I agree that he shouldn't get a reprieve because Shelvey's was worse. I just don't think his tackle was that dangerous. I also agree that the Kompany red card last January wasn't bad enough to warrant a red card if we are talking about the same situation.
I agree that he shouldn't get a reprieve because Shelvey's was worse. I just don't think his tackle was that dangerous. I also agree that the Kompany red card last January wasn't bad enough to warrant a red card if we are talking about the same situation.
Naughton16
Clive Wilson
Re: O/T Mark Halsey
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdxYa603O8c
It looks like the impact of Shelvey's right foot on the ball (with the force of Evans foot behind it) changes the direction of Shelveys challenge. They both lunged into the challenge, they both kind of made contact with the ball. It's a tough one for the ref but if he has the benefit of the replay then a yellow each is the sensible decision IMO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdxYa603O8c
It looks like the impact of Shelvey's right foot on the ball (with the force of Evans foot behind it) changes the direction of Shelveys challenge. They both lunged into the challenge, they both kind of made contact with the ball. It's a tough one for the ref but if he has the benefit of the replay then a yellow each is the sensible decision IMO.
braineclipse
Willie Hall
Re: O/T Mark Halsey
You can see from that how Shelvey is coming in with quite a bit more force.
You can also see Evans coming in with the side of his (right) foot and his knee bent. It's not a great tackle and a yellow for him would have been alright I suppose, but it's not as bad as Shelvey's and didn't warrant a sending off in my opinion.
You can see from that how Shelvey is coming in with quite a bit more force.
You can also see Evans coming in with the side of his (right) foot and his knee bent. It's not a great tackle and a yellow for him would have been alright I suppose, but it's not as bad as Shelvey's and didn't warrant a sending off in my opinion.
southstand1882
Mitchell Thomas
Re: O/T Mark Halsey
I think that it's a 60/40 challenge in Evans favour, he is always going to get there first and as a result he is unlikely to cause Shelvey any injury. Shelvey is going in with more force than Evans and is never getting to the ball first which means it's always going to end up a dangerous tackle and with todays rules a red card.
I think that it's a 60/40 challenge in Evans favour, he is always going to get there first and as a result he is unlikely to cause Shelvey any injury. Shelvey is going in with more force than Evans and is never getting to the ball first which means it's always going to end up a dangerous tackle and with todays rules a red card.
tommysvr
Simon Davies
You have a weird standard for macarons
Re: O/T Mark Halsey
I like Halsey, very good referee who tries even in today's environment of assessors and all seeing eyes, to referee a fixture as you would ahve seen maybe 15-20 years ago. He has a laugh with the players and doesn't think he is the centre of attention. He did have a bit of a mare for us against West Brom in august I thought but generally I have enjoyed games he has reffed.
Shelvey was definitely deserving of the red, his challenge on Giggs just prior to the Evans challenge was clumsy and a bit over exuberant so to go wading into the next challenge like he did gave the referee a decision to make.
Evans being deserving of a red card is a seperate issue. The facts are Shelvey left the ground so by letter of the law he was out of control, he was reckless in his attempt to win the challenge and by almost scissoring his left leg round and connecting well above the ball with his right leg he was actually guilty of serious foul play on at least 2 counts. That is a straight red in anyone's language.
That said, Jonny Evans can consider himself probably a little fortunate to escape a Red card despite looking at the ball. What saved him probably was the fact that he was virtually on the ground at the time of the tackle with only one foot making impact on the ball.
The penalty to my mind was weak, pretty much really a dive from Valencia but from the angle that Halsey would have seen it you cannot blame him for giving the penalty. The linesman would have been kidded slightly by the touch from Johnson as well although he would have been more able to actually see Valencia falling before contact is made. The referee needs help on these occasions from the linesman but as much from the players who need stop going down at the slightest of touches at every given opportunity but that is obviously an entirely different argument.
I like Halsey, very good referee who tries even in today's environment of assessors and all seeing eyes, to referee a fixture as you would ahve seen maybe 15-20 years ago. He has a laugh with the players and doesn't think he is the centre of attention. He did have a bit of a mare for us against West Brom in august I thought but generally I have enjoyed games he has reffed.
Shelvey was definitely deserving of the red, his challenge on Giggs just prior to the Evans challenge was clumsy and a bit over exuberant so to go wading into the next challenge like he did gave the referee a decision to make.
Evans being deserving of a red card is a seperate issue. The facts are Shelvey left the ground so by letter of the law he was out of control, he was reckless in his attempt to win the challenge and by almost scissoring his left leg round and connecting well above the ball with his right leg he was actually guilty of serious foul play on at least 2 counts. That is a straight red in anyone's language.
That said, Jonny Evans can consider himself probably a little fortunate to escape a Red card despite looking at the ball. What saved him probably was the fact that he was virtually on the ground at the time of the tackle with only one foot making impact on the ball.
The penalty to my mind was weak, pretty much really a dive from Valencia but from the angle that Halsey would have seen it you cannot blame him for giving the penalty. The linesman would have been kidded slightly by the touch from Johnson as well although he would have been more able to actually see Valencia falling before contact is made. The referee needs help on these occasions from the linesman but as much from the players who need stop going down at the slightest of touches at every given opportunity but that is obviously an entirely different argument.