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Toby Alderweireld

Spur of the moment said:
What people also failed to recognise is Verts consistently passed it across the back to Dawson for him to get it up field rather than take on that responsibility himself. He continues to do that with Toby as well.
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Have you ever thought that was because Jan does not deliver a long ball ( he is better at bringing the ball out) as well as Toby or Dawson?. Rather then look at it as a case of " passing the buck" it more to do with playing to the teams strengths, just a thought.
 
parklane1 said:
Have you ever thought that was because Jan does not deliver a long ball ( he is better at bringing the ball out) as well as Toby or Dawson? Rather then look at it as a case of " passing the buck" it more to do with playing to the teams strengths, just a thought.
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You're right, Verts can be awesome bringing the ball out, which only begs the question, if Dawson's outballs were really so awful (as people suggested) why didn't Verts attempt to do that more often instead?

I know I'll get hammered for suggesting this but in my more cynical moments, when watching him persist in passing the ball across the back the way he sometimes does, I find myself wondering whether Vertonghen isn't more thinking about his passing stats here. ;)
 
Spur of the moment said:
No question Toby is a couple of notches up from Dawson but it always annoyed me the way the latter was slated for his long diagonal outballs. Of course a fair number came back at us, just the same as they did from a goalkick or whatever. But likewise a fair percentage also either found their target or resulted in us winning possession one way or another much higher up the field. Chances are anyway that with the likes Crouch to aim for Dawson was actually under orders to do precisely what he did.

What people also failed to recognise is Verts consistently passed it across the back to Dawson for him to get it up field rather than take on that responsibility himself. He continues to do that with Toby as well.
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Another way of seeing that is Vertonghen balancing out shorter passes with longer passes as he's very capble of building from the back being trained at Ajax. Dawson on the other hand had a much smaller reportoire and weas much easier to force into playing the long ball. And it was not always aimed at Crouch or another target man. Thus it looked like Verts was passing the responsibility, when it could just as easily just be a result of Dawson's limitations.

Alderweireld does seem to have a better long pass than Verts, so he uses that more. While Verts seemingly carries the ball out from the back more as he's perhaps the better dribbler. Knowing and playing to your limitations and strengths is a key part of being a good footballer. Either way they're both very much ball playing centre backs, and that's a huge bonus for us. Something Dawson clearly was not, though he did have a good long pass.
 
Spur of the moment said:
You're right, Verts can be awesome bringing the ball out, which only begs the question, if Dawson's outballs were really so awful (as people suggested) why didn't Verts attempt to do that more often instead?

I know I'll get hammered for suggesting this but in my more cynical moments, when watching him persist in passing the ball across the back the way he sometimes does, I find myself wondering whether Vertonghen isn't more thinking about his passing stats here. ;)
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It's a pretty standard approach for the defending team to target opposing players based on their strengths and weaknesses. Leave Dawson in space as he can easily be closed down and forced into the long ball if he receives it. Get close to Vertonghen and don't give him space to advance with the ball, try to cut off his passing options to the more creative midfielders and full backs. Just asking Vertonghen to bring the ball out from the back "more often" is potentially a complete catastrophe as the only times a centre back should dribble the ball forward is when he can do so being almost certain that he won't lose the ball.

Dawson's limitations were pointed out, thought people unfairly labelled his long passes as just poor when it was more an issue of how often he played them imo. The difference with two ball playing centre backs is clear to see and a great benefit.
 
Spur of the moment said:
You're right, Verts can be awesome bringing the ball out, which only begs the question, if Dawson's outballs were really so awful (as people suggested) why didn't Verts attempt to do that more often instead?

I know I'll get hammered for suggesting this but in my more cynical moments, when watching him persist in passing the ball across the back the way he sometimes does, I find myself wondering whether Vertonghen isn't more thinking about his passing stats here. ;)
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Could be its because he had a brain that told him doing something so often that is not one of his strengths and which would be giving the ball away more often the not was not the best thing to do. As for his short passing its all down to the way he was taught at Ajax, I was lucky enough to spend some time there and they always taught players ( from being kids) that possession is the king.

Before you say something about Toby being at Ajax so why does he use the long ball its because he is good at it ( unlike Jan but you will notice he only does it on occasions and t rest of the time he passes the ball to feet and builds from there.
 
Knew I'd get hammered! However, I remain to be totally convinced by all these more worthy explanations. For sure there is something in what you both say but at the same time Vertonghen does seem to 'pass the buck' (your words parklane not mine) an extraordinary amount even when under no pressure whatsoever. I'd expect with his undoubted level of skill on the ball for him to be at least a tad more adventurous than he currently is.
 
Spur of the moment said:
Knew I'd get hammered! However, I remain to be totally convinced by all these more worthy explanations. For sure there is something in what you both say but at the same time Vertonghen does seem to 'pass the buck' (your words parklane not mine) an extraordinary amount even when under no pressure whatsoever. I'd expect with his undoubted level of skill on the ball for him to be at least a tad more adventurous than he currently is.
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How many CB's in the Prem have you seen carry a ball out of defence as well as he does?
 
His movement in the box on corners is amazing. Defenders can't keep tabs on him and at the front post he's proving to be a serious goal threat. Most under praised member of the team this season and all for 8m. Great signing.
 
awesome dawson said:
His movement in the box on corners is amazing. Defenders can't keep tabs on him and at the front post he's proving to be a serious goal threat. Most under praised member of the team this season and all for 8m. Great signing.
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Right now I would go a step further. You might consider a name change because I think he is beginning to look like an 'Awesome' signing
 
I know his last name is hard to spell and pronounce but we sound like Gooners calling him 'Toby' - as those Twunts are always going on about 'Theo' and 'Alex' and 'Jack'.
 
90291Spur said:
I know his last name is hard to spell and pronounce but we sound like Gooners calling him 'Toby' - as those Twunts are always going on about 'Theo' and 'Alex' and 'Jack'.
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Personally I'd rather get one name right than consistently get the harder one wrong and I'm one of the worse for spelling on here
 
Bedfordspurs said:
You wouldn't believe that my spelling is impeccable but when i use apple products the spell check fairy kicks in...
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