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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Gutter Boy said:
Removed from the control of all EU institutions, no more social dumping, phased reclaiming of fishing waters, new independent RoW trade deals and minimal new trade barriers. Win win win really. As a long term brexiteer (from the green/lexit wing, going back 20 years), its everything straight away which I thought would need to be eked out over decades.
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New independent RoW trade deals…. Where we we get a worse deal than the World’s largest trading block (after we’ve waited in line behind them to get to the negotiating table).
 
Gutter Boy said:
Removed from the control of all EU institutions, no more social dumping, phased reclaiming of fishing waters, new independent RoW trade deals and minimal new trade barriers. Win win win really. As a long term brexiteer (from the green/lexit wing, going back 20 years), its everything straight away which I thought would need to be eked out over decades.
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Had a bit of old toby tonight, have we?

Social dumping? What would that be?
 
Finney Is Back said:
New independent RoW trade deals…. Where we we get a worse deal than the World’s largest trading block (after we’ve waited in line behind them to get to the negotiating table).
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We're joining the CPTPP in a few months. Which is a much more balanced trading arrangement, as it contains developing countries where there's more to offer each other, as well as those with similar economies to ours.
 
Rorschach said:
Had a bit of old toby tonight, have we?
Social dumping?
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Social dumping, freedom of movement - however they badge it. Its a corner stone of the EU. Enabling their corporate masters to move masses of cheap labour close to the source of production/sale, driving down wages and conditions. The main reason the whole east of the country voted for leave.

Generally though I'm being positive about a move from an antagonistic to a conciliatory approach to the EU. The former has served its purpose, now it's time to calm things and settle into the new routine.
 
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Gutter Boy said:
Social dumping, freedom of movement - however they badge it. Its a corner stone of the EU. Enabling their corporate masters to move masses of cheap labour close to the source of production/sale, driving down wages and conditions. The main reason the whole east of the country voted for leave.
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Gotya. Keep the foriners out. I just hadn't heard that euphemism before.
 
Rorschach said:
Gotya. Keep the foriners out. I just hadn't heard that euphemism before.
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No - just ones coming for low paid jobs. High paid ones, refugees and those coming for study or personal relationships are all good. Like I said - lexit critique, which couldn't be further away from your insinuation.

Social dumping is a fairly well known term - even the EU use it (with an irony bypass) in their own documents: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/thinktank/en/document/EPRS_BRI(2017)599353
 
Gutter Boy said:
No - just ones coming for low paid jobs. High paid ones, refugees and those coming for study or personal relationships are all good. Like I said - lexit critique, which couldn't be further away from your insinuation.

Social dumping is a fairly well known term - even the EU use it (with an irony bypass) in their own documents: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/thinktank/en/document/EPRS_BRI(2017)599353
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So keep out the EU citizens that were doing the low-paid work that was needed and replace those with UK workers who don't want to do it. And then take in the EU's best to replace the higher paid jobs, so that these UK workers can now take the lower-paid jobs vacated by the exiting EU workers (?). And then let refugees in by methods that are not legal at the moment to not work and sit in barracks somewhere. And there are no students that can't come or go to the EU because all that student exchange brick is now over. As for the personal relationships bit, then I hope that is not with someone born in the EU as they are second-class citizens now and might get deported without warning.
 
Rorschach said:
So keep out the EU citizens that were doing the low-paid work that was needed and replace those with UK workers who don't want to do it. And then take in the EU's best to replace the higher paid jobs, so that these UK workers can now take the lower-paid jobs vacated by the exiting EU workers (?). And then let refugees in by methods that are not legal at the moment to not work and sit in barracks somewhere. And there are no students that can't come or go to the EU because all that student exchange brick is now over. As for the personal relationships bit, then I hope that is not with someone born in the EU as they are second-class citizens now and might get deported without warning.
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That's the situation created by 30 years of neo-liberalism. We've recently just taken the first step to repairing those structures . Hopefully the rest will come (with a more capable government) - e.g. investment in education and skills in ex-industrial areas, a society driven immigration system etc.
 
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Gutter Boy said:
That's the situation created by 30 years of neo-liberalism. We've recently just taken the first step to repairing those structures . Hopefully the rest will come (with a more capable government) - e.g. investment in education and skills in ex-industrial areas, a society driven immigration system etc.
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Well, good luck with that. I mean it.
 
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Gutter Boy said:
Social dumping, freedom of movement - however they badge it. Its a corner stone of the EU. Enabling their corporate masters to move masses of cheap labour close to the source of production/sale, driving down wages and conditions. The main reason the whole east of the country voted for leave.

Generally though I'm being positive about a move from an antagonistic to a conciliatory approach to the EU. The former has served its purpose, now it's time to calm things and settle into the new routine.
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The lack of freedom of movement will simply mean the country will instead bring in people from our former colonies to do the low paid work…. The difference here is that young EU people doing low paid work tend to return home when they’re older, those from the colonies are far less likely to do so. I find it a delicious irony that many of the racists who voted Brexit will have done huge amounts to diversify the ethnicity of the UK.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Social dumping, freedom of movement - however they badge it. Its a corner stone of the EU. Enabling their corporate masters to move masses of cheap labour close to the source of production/sale, driving down wages and conditions. The main reason the whole east of the country voted for leave.

Generally though I'm being positive about a move from an antagonistic to a conciliatory approach to the EU. The former has served its purpose, now it's time to calm things and settle into the new routine.
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I would not bother engaging with him gutterboy, he is another non Brit who likes to lecture us on how we should behave. Such an underlying hatred of England it makes you wonder why he supports an English football team.
 
Lilbaz said:
There is big differences. Socialism believes that the means of production, distribution and exchange should be owned by the community as a whole. Social democracy believes in a regulated capitalist mixed economy. While providing social welfare provisions.
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Labour are an avowed socialist party, but they have never made an aim of nationalizing all of the economy. Social democracy is just alternate label invented by the nervous nellies of the 'left' who wanted to avoid the socialist tag. It is a label, whilst socialism is an ideology.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Im a Labour voter but I don’t think they’re electable at the moment. I liked Keir Starmer at first, seemed to say all the right things, seems intelligent but people for some reason haven’t warmed to him. They’d rather vote for a loveable rogue like Boris even though he’s also an incorrigible womaniser and a blundering idiot. Likability trumps effectiveness it would appear. Labour have got too bogged down in indulging the 10% of people in this country who are so neurotic they complain and get offended about everything. Wokeism doesn’t play well to 85-90% of the population. I’d quite happily vote Lib Dem at the next general election if it increases the chances of finally getting rid of Boris and the tories.
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Please don't, because those opportunistic clams will then proceed to enter a coalition with their natural allies, the Tories.
 
parklane1 said:
Very telling for me, it just shows that labour are in as bigger mess as the Torys. The state of politics in this country has never been so fudged.
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North Shropshire is a deepest blue Tory seat. it has been for 200 hundred years straight. It was never voting for a Labour candidate. Labour voters did the wise and next best thing, they voted for a candidate who could win.
 
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