Official Benoit Thread

[mick cooper]

Here's a summary

- Mata goes past Parker and is now free to advance forward and do some damage.

- King realises that and goes forward to close him down (basics)

- The very moment Mata was free, BAE should have dropped back to split Ramires and Bosingwa, imv


The zonal marking bible is merely textbook writings which are hardly context-specific. He should be more pro-active than reactive and attempt to read the movement patterns better.

Its a funny place GG.

If I call anyone a c**t, for starting a thread hammering a Spurs player, I would get a ban.

But someone with little or no apparent understanding of how to defend, can slag a player off for something that wasn't his fault, and then justify the slating with an explanation that holds as much water as the average square of toilet paper - and nothing happens.

Why is that I wonder.

I am all for healthy debate, when it makes sense to debate something, but why, oh why, oh why was this stupid thread allowed to exist?

I do understand that this board is for all supporters of Spurs, even people who have never been to WHL, or that you don't have to have a EUFA coaching badge to contribute - but surely there must be some mechanism for deleting threads with absolutely no value whatsoever?

Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could all vote on threads, and if a reasonable percentage of the board though the thread was bollox, it could be simply erased.

Particularly when the thread is slating the defender who probably did more to keep the score down, than the rest put together.

Sad times indeed

 

[diego_maradona]

I honestly believe if Ekotto played for United he would be regarded as a top left back. (And he probably would be a lot better than he is now.)

 

[mick cooper]

I honestly believe if Ekotto played for United he would be regarded as a top left back. (And he probably would be a lot better than he is now.)

what, playing alongside a defence that was capable of defending? That would make anyone play better, as they would only have their own job to do.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

what, playing alongside a defence that was capable of defending? That would make anyone play better, as they would only have their own job to do.

I reckon ekotto looked at the keepr and the 2 in central defence and he did not fancy it yesterday, well that was my reaction sat in the crowd so i can not blame him if he thought the same thing.

Said it so many times, he needs to be rested from time to time to get the best out of him.

 

[Finney Is Back]

IMO it was terrible, terrible defending from Ledley King.

He had no reason to go and push for the ball like that. As Mata receives that ball in space we actually have a reasonably good defensive position.... Ekotto has positioned himself to cover the potential ball to Bosingwa, Walker has pulled inside to help cover the centre forward as a fullback is coached to do when the ball is on the other side of the pitch and King and Gallas have Ramierez and Drogba marshalled pretty well in the central areas. Parker is also coming across to get goalside of Mata and marshall him out wide so his only option is to go back to Lampard or out wide to Bosingwa. It would take something special for Chelsea to have scored from that position. Only for King to suddenly decide to leave his player and chase down an opponent that he is never going to get to. This leaves the attacking player that King was picking up in acres of space and gives Mata the option of a simple ball for a goalscoring opportunity to an unmarked Ramierez.

Had Mata been 10 yards further forward then I could understand King chasing Mata down - as from there the shot from Mata becomes more dangerous, while the ball in behind the defence to a forward becomes much more difficult. But King choosing to go and press the ball in that situation was a terrible decision from him. I don't see how any fullback could've anticipated that decision and got back to cover. You can see how bad a decision it was from King in the last picture Mullet posted. We have 4 defenders back against Chelsea's two attacking players and a midfielder getting back to cover Mata's path to our goal. If King stays with his player Chelsea have a choice of going sideways/backwards or playing a ball into a forwards feet with a centre half tight in behind them and no players supporting them in close proximity.

 

[ArcspacE]

What do you mean split? what youL're saying isn't what coaches teach players at grass roots level (or any level for that matter). You're saying he should be inbetween both players so you're basically saying in that split second he should have a look at Bosingwa, then have a look at Ramires, then calculate where exactly 50% is between the players and stand there. That's near enough an impossible task and something i've never heard of.

You either stick or go. You comit to tracking Ramires' run OR stick with Bosingwa. BAE made the correct choice staying with his man (Bosingwa) and still was smart enough to read that Ledley was wondering into no mans land. King pushed forward for whatever reason (he didn't even commit to pushing forawrd and was half arsed about it) and BAE noticed that and could see Ramires' run so decided to chase him and leave Bosingwa but it was too late. Utter crap from Ledley King on that occasion and BAE made NO mistake.

I've played upfront (and still do) most of the time. Splitting players means exactly whg you ve descibed above - finding the mean point and discourage a pass to 2 players at the same time while maximising your chances of catching either if a pass is indeed played. Strikers do it all the time when throw ins are taken in the opponents half - watch closlely next game, any game. We are told to do it every time.
Simply feel BAE could have read the situation better

 

[Finney Is Back]

I've played upfront (and still do) most of the time. Splitting players means exactly whg you ve descibed above - finding the mean point and discourage a pass to 2 players at the same time while maximising your chances of catching either if a pass is indeed played. Strikers do it all the time when throw ins are taken in the opponents half - watch closlely next game, any game. We are told to do it every time.
Simply feel BAE could have read the situation better

Had BAE got in between his two players and King still made his crazy run pressing Mata then the pass that Mata played into Ramierez would still have been on. King's position when Mata received the ball was quite good. BAE's position when Mata received the ball was quite good. Walker and Gallas' position when Mata received the ball were quite good. Parker is coming across to cover Mata's run. It is clear that Mata is not going to get a free run to our penalty area. King then negates our good defensive position by charging out giving Mata time to pick and execute a pass in behind us to the unmarked Ramierez. Suicidal defensing from one of our most experienced defenders. How you can try to shift the blame from King to BAE is beyond me.

 

[WookieD]

I've played upfront (and still do) most of the time. Splitting players means exactly whg you ve descibed above - finding the mean point and discourage a pass to 2 players at the same time while maximising your chances of catching either if a pass is indeed played. Strikers do it all the time when throw ins are taken in the opponents half - watch closlely next game, any game. We are told to do it every time.
Simply feel BAE could have read the situation better

Not being funny mate, but Modric was offering no support on the left, Bale was nowhere to be seen. The whole team was out of shape but essentially, I don't see how Benny can be at fault. He's out hugging the wing with Bosingwa, King is marking Ramires and Gallas is free at that point (in fact, Gallas is free during the entire debacle but he and King are too far apart).

We had lost shape massively, but Parker was picking up Mata and King was marking Ramires without anyone close enough to pick up his position.

Positionally, we were out of shape, but Benny was where he was because he had the whole wing to pick up on his own as he had nobody in front of him. Gallas was spare and didn't take up a position to help, but that was probably because he didn't want to leave Walker with the entire right side to himself. King shouldn't have stepped, Mata was marked, he shouldn't have stepped.

I get on BAE's back about this type of thing all the time, but asking him to take up a position inside the 18yd box and monitor two attackers, so that King can charge out of the box and close down a player on the edge of our own third and being picked up by a midfielder already is, at best, being unkind mate.

 

[markysimmo]

Its a funny place GG.

If I call anyone a c**t, for starting a thread hammering a Spurs player, I would get a ban.

But someone with little or no apparent understanding of how to defend, can slag a player off for something that wasn't his fault, and then justify the slating with an explanation that holds as much water as the average square of toilet paper - and nothing happens.

Why is that I wonder.

I am all for healthy debate, when it makes sense to debate something, but why, oh why, oh why was this stupid thread allowed to exist?

I do understand that this board is for all supporters of Spurs, even people who have never been to WHL, or that you don't have to have a EUFA coaching badge to contribute - but surely there must be some mechanism for deleting threads with absolutely no value whatsoever?

Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could all vote on threads, and if a reasonable percentage of the board though the thread was bollox, it could be simply erased.

Particularly when the thread is slating the defender who probably did more to keep the score down, than the rest put together.

Sad times indeed

IMO its posting for increasing post count, pure and simple...

 

[Moby]

For me, blatantly Kings fault. You don't just rush out leaving a gaping hole and expect your other defender to telepathically know what your going to do, then cover your own man as well as his! You hold and try to cover for a second until the midfield races back. Key thing is, don't sell yourself. Surprised to see ledders do this.

Changing the keeper and the selection we had to make in the back four were for me the key factors yesterday. Ledley is struggling and with the two old Chelsea boys in, it just didn't click.

However, no bloody excuse why we didn't attack in the manner we used to this season.

Clearly the lads heads have gone since arsenal. Their heads are down and they need to snap out of it quick or were going to fall even further.

Decision time; is this Spurs of old, or the New Tottenham we were all proudly talking of for the first two thirds of the season?...

 

[Moby]

IMO its posting for increasing post count, pure and simple...

Hahahaha, you cheeky bugger you!!!

 

[ArcspacE]

I get on BAE's back about this type of thing all the time, but asking him to take up a position inside the 18yd box and monitor two attackers, so that King can charge out of the box and close down a player on the edge of our own third and being picked up by a midfielder already is, at best, being unkind mate.

In my very first post on this subject I stated BAE was at fault for the goal. Never said he was solely to blame which is what virtually all subsequent replies have assumed. I'd say he was 50% at fault.

Again - in my opinion he could have read the situation better and drop a few yards to split the two the moment King stepped up to close down Mata. Instead he waited for the pass and by then it was too late.

 

[COYS]

My mate that's a Gooner thinks Benny is the best LB in the league, and has been our best player of the season.

 

[Fuego]

I suggested a few names couple of weeks back.

Here's just a few

Maxwell
Baines (the obvious choice, please Levy)
Bastos (top player)
Taiwo (hard to persuade)
Perrreira
Coentrao (most likely impossible)

Didn't say Santos is the solution - attempt to read / comprehend before deciding what I've written

It's BAE's fault for X, for X, for X, for X. His covering of King's ass was not good enough... What sort of insanity is that? It's BAE's fault because he has too many vowels in his name... There, I made it easier for you.


Andre Santos, the Arsenal LB cannot defend. RVP can defend better than him. (Proof I'm not just saying it because he's an Arsenal player.) He is more like a winger than a left back, he is one of the worst LBs in the entire league. It is insane to claim Andre Santos is better than any remotely decent LB. I honestly would feel safer with Rose.

Santos is best going forward but VDV would put in a better attempt at playing LB... Santos doesn't track back, he never plays without someone's shirt in his hand, he is the liability of all liabilities. With the exception of the CL game he got injured in, I've watched all his games. He's taller than Defoe, but even Defoe isn't as brick at defending as Santos.

Enrique turned to brick lately, but was one of the best LBs in the league... Evra started off badly but has picked up. Cole started brick but wasn't helped by the lack of help in front of him. He had to do a Walker and mark 2 men for a few games, but he's a good LB. It's an incredible insult to say any top 6 starter is worse than Andre Santos... In fairness to you, Wenger prefers Gibbs, even though he plays one game and gets injured for a month. BAE is better than Gibbs, but at least Gibbs has some right to play as a left back.


Ok, so now to your actual list...


Maxwell - Is this the Maxwell that used to play for Barca? I don't know him well enough to judge honestly, but the few times I saw him, he didn't seem like an OMGWTFBBQ LB.

Baines (the obvious choice, please Levy) He has been really bad defensively this season most of the time when I've seen him. But he can take penalties, free kicks and can cross well, he's great going forward. He was better defensively

Bastos (top player) I don't know him well enough.

Taiwo (hard to persuade) I don't know him well enough either.

Perrreira I don't even know this guy.

Coentrao (most likely impossible) This is the Real Madrid LB for away matches? The better defensively out of him and Marcelo.



I agree that Baines is the obvious choice, before this season began, I actually half expected that to happen. But because of that I've looked at them both and I think Baines this season would have got a lot of flak from people here if he'd put those performances in for us. He has hard workers in front of him that track back, Harry likes leaving Bale up to counter with.

Coentrao is the only one I know well enough to judge other than Baines and Coentrao is an amazing LB, but he plays for Real Madrid. If we could replace our entire squad with Real Madrid players (even ones that only play half of games for Real Madrid), we'd be challenging for the title.



I haven't totally condemned your list or anything, so I'm not saying BAE is the best LB ever, because I know some people love him and some hate him. (Not just due to his personality, Arsenal Mania is divided, some think he's the best LB in the top 5/6 and some think he's the worst.)

I just strongly disagree with the Andre Santos comment. BAE would get into the Arsenal team for sure. Man United, Chelsea and even Liverpool have good/great LBs (if you consider previous seasons especially), but Andre Santos would struggle to get into any other team in the PL. The ones at the bottom of the league need full backs that can defend. He'd probably get in as a winger.

 

[WookieD]

In my very first post on this subject I stated BAE was at fault for the goal. Never said he was solely to blame which is what virtually all subsequent replies have assumed. I'd say he was 50% at fault.

Again - in my opinion he could have read the situation better and drop a few yards to split the two the moment King stepped up to close down Mata. Instead he waited for the pass and by then it was too late.

100% disagree for all the reasons said above. How in the name of GHod can you split attackers in that position? if he goes between the two he isn't marking anyone, they're so far apart with Ramires 10yds up field. If he's goalside of Ramires, Bosingwa is completely free on the wing. There was no fault for Benoit, the entire team was out of shape. Look at the midfield, it was in complete disarray.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Meh. Decent player. Good player, even. Could potentially be a really good one with proper coaching. Not the old boys' club that currently guffaws its way around the training ground, but a cadre of good coaches who could ease the deficiencies in his game out of him. but he is a bit of a spacegoat, isn't he? Just because he appears shaky sometimes doesn't mean he's automatically at fault for any goal scored from his side of the pitch. It was a brilliant ball from Mata; it was a piece of slack defending from Ledley. That's all, nothing more.

Oh, GHod, how I miss Kaboul and Daws. Sigh.

 

[africanspurs]

just had a look at santos tonight, cause some people said he was that much better than BAE

.......imagine my surprise when i didnt get the second coming of an adrea brehme / roberto carlos / young paolo maldini hybrid

i felt like santa clause didnt exist all over again. (as if santa ever made his way to west africa)

 

[zin]

In my very first post on this subject I stated BAE was at fault for the goal. Never said he was solely to blame which is what virtually all subsequent replies have assumed. I'd say he was 50% at fault.

Again - in my opinion he could have read the situation better and drop a few yards to split the two the moment King stepped up to close down Mata. Instead he waited for the pass and by then it was too late.

Is this as close as we're going to get to you admitting your wrong, pal? Basically ripping into BAE throughout the whole thread and then casually now assigning 50% of the blame to him only? King got a free pass throughout the whole time, why's that? What's the matter? Realised nobody agrees with you so you had to reign your wrong opinion slightly in but not totally as you are too proud to do that?

This is why noone takes you seriously. Even your suggestions as to who could replace BAE were not well-received. It's a fudging shame though you will never realise your opinions are rarely shared. I wish this board had a like/dislike system so you would MAYBE realise how poorly your opinions are received.

 

[zin]

Its a funny place GG.

If I call anyone a c**t, for starting a thread hammering a Spurs player, I would get a ban.

But someone with little or no apparent understanding of how to defend, can slag a player off for something that wasn't his fault, and then justify the slating with an explanation that holds as much water as the average square of toilet paper - and nothing happens.

Why is that I wonder.

I am all for healthy debate, when it makes sense to debate something, but why, oh why, oh why was this stupid thread allowed to exist?

I do understand that this board is for all supporters of Spurs, even people who have never been to WHL, or that you don't have to have a EUFA coaching badge to contribute - but surely there must be some mechanism for deleting threads with absolutely no value whatsoever?

Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could all vote on threads, and if a reasonable percentage of the board though the thread was bollox, it could be simply erased.

Particularly when the thread is slating the defender who probably did more to keep the score down, than the rest put together.

Sad times indeed

A like/dislike function on this board would be perfect, the current infraction system serves little purpose for what you described. Let people like or dislike your posts and maybe people will actually realise that their opinion is either not shared, badly received or well received. Right no we're all sitting here wondering whether what certain people say are what most of us think and that we're the odd ones out in our thinking.

 

[ArcspacE]

I couldn't possibly describe to you how 'much' your opinion means to me

The fact you have reading / compehensive issues is by no means by problem but do refrain from blatant accusations and derrigatory posts or else take time to familiriase yourself with the forum's rules and guidelines. You haven't discussed anything of note in this thread in turn making this personal from your very first post simply because I took a swipe at your favourite team a few weeks ago and you've been unable to recover from that ever since.