Let's accept it and move on

[parklane1]

We aren't in a position to replace players like Rafa and Modric like for like in terms of ability- that would have been the true no matter who was in charge

This, it makes me laugh that there are some who think players like Modric and VDV can be replaced like for like, they can not hence the replacements/ team have to be given time to adapt to a different system.

Too many FIFA players who think its easy to swop players around and get results/performances straight away.

 

[marcospur2]

What is the point of what you are saying? Spell it out to me.

I am not trying to twist your posts at all, I am trying to reflect how they appear. Perhaps that is a failing in how you present yourself, or a failing in how I am reading them. The point of discussion is to find out which.

If you would like me to substantiate any views, perhaps feel I havent done well enough to date, feel free top ask me a direct question - I will answer as well as I can.

I certainly hope my last point is factually untrue. I hope that it is untrue for all Spurs fans - I can only say what I see - and so far what I see is a lot of talk tinged with negativity from you.

I am sorry you feel the way you do. Am I confident right now? No not especially, but by contrast you may be you are excessively optimistic? In any case, it does not matter what I think, or you. What will matter is how things unfold over the next season. But considering the effort you have put into targeting my position, I will say that I was not involved in the divisions which revealed themselves on here re Harry/AVB. I absolutely do not want to open any up any old wounds (please look at other threads, this is no exclusive to me). Equally I think it is almost impossible not to discuss things, rightly or wrongly, in relation to what has gone before. But I shall be mindful of the divisions you reference so it is not of the nature which clearly irritates you. People are trying to make sense of the changes that have occured, and for me it is this instability which is most confusing. I genuinely do not know what AVB wants yet, and if this manifests itself in negativity after a pretty poor perfomance then I apologise for offending you. But aside from today's insipid performance - which has shocked me somewhat - I absolutely believe AVB needs time. Why is that so hard to believe? But I do want to see progression on his part as I do by the team, partly based I admit on how what I recall from last season. Is that so unfair? Finally, I absolutely want him to succeed and resent another fan using that line of argument in a debate. I fully support the idea of introducing what you describe as a more solid structure, indeed previously (maybe months ago?) I referenced the appoach at Barca/Utd etc for the way it allows them to stay more composed during difficult periods (hope that is clear?). Will this mean some rocky moments? Yes. But Levy needs to fully back this project and not get trigger happy becasue he was obviously convinced by AVB during the interviewing and planning phase. But ask me questions if you want to know anything more specific? (on strategy/tactics the match thread last few posts are clearer on what I think about how things are currently going)

Note: my original response timed out so had to retype it

 

[spitshine]

What about the second half of the last two seasons?

Granted. We have faded in the 2nd half, but testament to the fact our first half consistency was so good we still managed 5th and 4th.
Thing is, Harry will always we remembered by a section as the guy who could have given us 3rd and above Arsenal, not the guy who got the best out of the
players, got us 4,5,4 and regularly beat the traditional Top 4(ex Manu).

I dont like him as a person but I have total respect for what he achieved with us.

Hiddink, Ancelotti we should have broke the bank for not a manager who got lucky at Porto due to the fantastic strikers at his disposal.

 

[El Guepardo]

Wouldn't have mattered who we appointed as manager, any new manager will have time for transition and needs to be backed by the chairman.

Levy's failure to secure the seemingly straightforward signing of Moutinho, fee apparently agreed and agent at club, will contribute to any failure that AVB has. Levy is a penny pincher, not one to splash out and ultimately that may cost us more than it saves us.

 

[charlietheyid]

I wouldnt mind us having a transitionnal season if it wasnt for Bale. I really think hes up there with the best players in the world and the best player we've had since you name it.

I have no doubt a top team will come in for him next summer and i would be heartbroken if he wanted to leave.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Granted. We have faded in the 2nd half, but testament to the fact our first half consistency was so good we still managed 5th and 4th.
Thing is, Harry will always we remembered by a section as the guy who could have given us 3rd and above Arsenal, not the guy who got the best out of the
players, got us 4,5,4 and regularly beat the traditional Top 4(ex Manu).

I dont like him as a person but I have total respect for what he achieved with us.

Hiddink, Ancelotti we should have broke the bank for not a manager who got lucky at Porto due to the fantastic strikers at his disposal.

It doesn't matter IMHO. A season is over 38 games. But the same logic needs to apply now. We were fantastic last season and had a handful of brick games (I said at the time that even when the results weren't going out way we weren't playing badly, certainly not as badly as we are now!). Well who is to say that this season we won't have a handful of brick games in a row at the beginning of the season? We just don't know. AVB needs to be judged over the full course of a league season, not just a handful of matches. 10, 15 or even 20 matches is NOT a big enough sample size to judge a manager on IMO.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

I wouldnt mind us having a transitionnal season if it wasnt for Bale. I really think hes up there with the best players in the world and the best player we've had since you name it.

I have no doubt a top team will come in for him next summer and i would be heartbroken if he wanted to leave.

Same reason as to why buying the man in your picture is probably going to be nothing more than a money spinner for us. Lloris was reluctant to join due to us not being in the CL. If we don't make the CL next season he'll likely want to be off after just one season.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Wouldn't have mattered who we appointed as manager, any new manager will have time for transition and needs to be backed by the chairman.

Levy's failure to secure the seemingly straightforward signing of Moutinho, fee apparently agreed and agent at club, will contribute to any failure that AVB has. Levy is a penny pincher, not one to splash out and ultimately that may cost us more than it saves us.

Indeed. Hoddle, Jol (via Comolli's poor transfer strategy) and Redknapp all suffered the same problem too. AVB will no doubt carry the can, and the man at the top will still be worshipped by some but I sense more and more people are beginning to realise that the managers aren't always to blame.....

 

[NWND]

Its a transitional start to the season yes, partly due to not doing our business early in the summer and starting the season with an unsettled squad. We saw last season how bad that can be for the start. But the system and tactics and performances should be starting to come together by October otherwise I fear for the manager's future. As AVB said, when he took this job his mandate was to get Top 4. If we come close then he'll get another season. If we're far away I think he'll get the boot.

 

[charlietheyid]

Same reason as to why buying the man in your picture is probably going to be nothing more than a money spinner for us. Lloris was reluctant to join due to us not being in the CL. If we don't make the CL next season he'll likely want to be off after just one season.

Maybe after two seasons yes. But he is use to struggling with Lyon. If we have a good season without CL, then he'll stay on. If he enjoys it then he will give us a bit of time.

 

[AdamB]

there is no reason we cant finish 4th. The top 3 are enough better than us. No-one else in the league is over 38 games and our quality will begin to shine through

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I am sorry you feel the way you do. Am I confident right now? No not especially, but by contrast you may be you are excessively optimistic? In any case, it does not matter what I think, or you. What will matter is how things unfold over the next season. But considering the effort you have put into targeting my position, I will say that I was not involved in the divisions which revealed themselves on here re Harry/AVB. I absolutely do not want to open any up any old wounds (please look at other threads, this is no exclusive to me). Equally I think it is almost impossible not to discuss things, rightly or wrongly, in relation to what has gone before. But I shall be mindful of the divisions you reference so it is not of the nature which clearly irritates you. People are trying to make sense of the changes that have occured, and for me it is this instability which is most confusing. I genuinely do not know what AVB wants yet, and if this manifests itself in negativity after a pretty poor perfomance then I apologise for offending you. But aside from today's insipid performance - which has shocked me somewhat - I absolutely believe AVB needs time. Why is that so hard to believe? But I do want to see progression on his part as I do by the team, partly based I admit on how what I recall from last season. Is that so unfair? Finally, I absolutely want him to succeed and resent another fan using that line of argument in a debate. I fully support the idea of introducing what you describe as a more solid structure, indeed previously (maybe months ago?) I referenced the appoach at Barca/Utd etc for the way it allows them to stay more composed during difficult periods (hope that is clear?). Will this mean some rocky moments? Yes. But Levy needs to fully back this project and not get trigger happy becasue he was obviously convinced by AVB during the interviewing and planning phase. But ask me questions if you want to know anything more specific? (on strategy/tactics the match thread last few posts are clearer on what I think about how things are currently going)

Note: my original response timed out so had to retype it

How frustrating is that?!

I have to say you intruige me, a lot like Africanspurs - I feel we are broadly of a similar mind and yet find contrasting views in the detail.

I dont feel I am excessively optimistic at all. I do err on looking for a positive, but right now the only messages Im trying to preach are those of patience and clean slates.

After 3 games, a summer of interruption and rebuilding, and transition into a new playing style I just cannot see the need for all the negativity permeating this board.

Again I do agree, he should be supported - by us AND Levy.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Granted. We have faded in the 2nd half, but testament to the fact our first half consistency was so good we still managed 5th and 4th.
Thing is, Harry will always we remembered by a section as the guy who could have given us 3rd and above Arsenal, not the guy who got the best out of the
players, got us 4,5,4 and regularly beat the traditional Top 4(ex Manu).

I dont like him as a person but I have total respect for what he achieved with us.

Hiddink, Ancelotti we should have broke the bank for not a manager who got lucky at Porto due to the fantastic strikers at his disposal.

I do like him as a person, he makes me laugh and is very engaging.

I do not have "TOTAL" respect for him on the football front for the reasons you describe - he showed us what these players was capable of and then allowed the standard to slip. I do have a lot of respect for him though, he has certainly given us some great highs

 

[marcospur2]

How frustrating is that?!

I have to say you intruige me, a lot like Africanspurs - I feel we are broadly of a similar mind and yet find contrasting views in the detail.

I dont feel I am excessively optimistic at all. I do err on looking for a positive, but right now the only messages Im trying to preach are those of patience and clean slates.

After 3 games, a summer of interruption and rebuilding, and transition into a new playing style I just cannot see the need for all the negativity permeating this board.

Again I do agree, he should be supported - by us AND Levy.

I agree on your first point, and actually accept the point about detail. I don't find it especially straightforward to arrive at a firm position about some of these debates. I see some very good and positive things, but then can also see elements of contrast or comparison which have enough validity to qualify a point I might wish to make (if that makes sense). It may be a background of research which has taught me to analyze every dimension - the pivotal difference here, however, is that Spurs is a passion. In other words it does not always lend itself well to logic, reason and consistency. The paradox, though, at the heart of the debate we have been having is that if I was a manager I would be considerably more like AVB than I would Harry: more emphasis on detail, analysis, structures and innovating in methods and process.

But you are right to preach patience. Sure the game today was highly frustrating, and that certainly filtered into my subsequent responses. But thinking clearly it would very wrong not to back AVB, not to recognise the changes which are occuring and which need to occur. But I do know we will continue to debate as each game comes by, because my uncertainly was seemingly mirrored by the players on the pitch today.

 

[Spursalot]

:lol:


Is the thread title meant to be ironic?

 

[Ron The Shelf]

If anypne can show me how AVB is an upgade on Redknapp I am all ears. Likewise, if someone can explain what the tactics were today please explain. Two defensive midfielders and one forward at home to norwich!!!!!???? Thank you Daniel Levy, you have completely destroyed my club.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

If anypne can show me how AVB is an upgade on Redknapp I am all ears. Likewise, if someone can explain what the tactics were today please explain. Two defensive midfielders and one forward at home to norwich!!!!!???? Thank you Daniel Levy, you have completely destroyed my club.

Is Livermore a DM? I don't think he is?

 

[Spursalot]

If anypne can show me how AVB is an upgade on Redknapp I am all ears. Likewise, if someone can explain what the tactics were today please explain. Two defensive midfielders and one forward at home to norwich!!!!!???? Thank you Daniel Levy, you have completely destroyed my club.

Not sure if serious..

 

[Jordinho]

Redknapp wasn't sacked because the results weren't good enough, neither is AVB brought in to immediately do better than Redknapp did. Levy wants a long term strategy in place to keep us fighting for CL places without taking any chances financially. Buy low, sell high. Developing our own players will take time to implement, but we're getting there judging by some of those coming through now. I think it's also about having set way of playing that will be taught at all age groups to make transisition into the first team easier, like Ajax and Barcelona do, but they've been doing it for ages and we're just starting.

 

[Ron The Shelf]

Absolutely serious. Twice he has sacked a popular and succesful manager and replaced them with flavour of the month. Why should we accept chelseas sloppy seconds?