I am a little worried

[africanspurs]

Totally disagree.

Cup Squads - Redknapp got rightly slaughtered for playing his second string all the time. AVB played his strongest line up most of the time.

He rotated the CB's based on Ekotto and whether he needed Verts there or not.

agree with this

 

[africanspurs]

I didn't quite understand it either.

First of all I don't think Dembele played (much) deeper than Parker, I think they played more or less "at the same depth". To me it seemed that they swapped who had the attacking responsibility quite frequently in games. One player would hold, one would push forward. Where these roles were fixed with Parker and Modric they were a lot more fluid with Dembele and Parker.

The only reason I can think of to do this might be that Dembele didn't quite have the energy to continuously take on the most attacking role. It takes a lot of stamina to get forward to support the attack, but then get back to defend every single time. Modric had tremendous stamina and like Dembele he was very reliable and diligent. We had no other option for Dembele in our squad and he played most mid-week games as well and he was reportedly playing with some injury problems at times. Modric on the other hand was usually rested for EL games.

That's my take on it at least. AVB did sub Dembele quite a few times, I think that also supports that he might have been running out of energy in some games and that he couldn't quite play that high energy role pushing on to support the attack as much as Modric did and to some extent as much as Dembele did earlier in the season.

elltrev has evidence a bit to show parker as the primary defensive of the two...not the guy regularly going ahead and running things

i would like someone to show me enough to prove that this is not the case. That dembele was playing defensive midfield role covering for parker while parker ran our midfield.

parker had a ALOT more responsibility and more advanced positions than under harry who kept him as a DM...that much i agree , but the idea that it was main dembele or noticeable / significantly more dembele that covered the attackers is something i am finding very hard to swallow

 

[milo]

elltrev has evidence a bit to show parker as the primary defensive of the two...not the guy regularly going ahead and running things

i would like someone to show me enough to prove that this is not the case. That dembele was playing defensive midfield role covering for parker while parker ran our midfield.

parker had a ALOT more responsibility and more advanced positions than under harry who kept him as a DM...that much i agree , but the idea that it was main dembele or noticeable / significantly more dembele that covered the attackers is something i am finding very hard to swallow

I think that the onus is on you to show what you are saying is right not for you to ask people to prove otherwise

 

[braineclipse]

I think that the onus is on you to show what you are saying is right not for you to ask people to prove otherwise

If I read african right he's asking those that are claiming that Dembele was significantly more defensive than Parker last season to provide some evidence to support that. As african doesn't believe that himself the so it isn't on him to prove it. I might have misunderstood something though.

 

[spurs' magna carter]

I am a little worried too.

I remember the 2008 window pretty well and all seemed quite Rosie after the impressive signings of Modric, Bentley, Pavlyuchenko, Corluka, Giovani dos Santos and Gomes, all of which strengthened our squad with total outlay of roughly £75m if memory serves me well. And then the Berbatov nightmare began. I will never forget that night, watching that SSN reporter outside Old Trafford clutching a piece of paper whilst declaring with sheer joy that Berbatov had 'finally' completed his move to Manchester United as Utd fans danced around him celebrating. Despite all the club had done with it's impressive signings it made it feel like the worst transfer window I'd ever seen. On top of that we didn't sign Arshavin as everyone had hoped after his agent phoned up Talksport telling them that Spurs had agreed a fee with Zenit, his client wanted the move and all that was holding it up was the installments, we offered payments over four years whilst Zenit wanted it over 18 months.

After that window we missed Berbatov & Keane's goals and with Bale being the equivalent of them two combined then I get feeling that we'll miss his goals should he go. I find it strange that people talk about players as if they're already a done deal i.e Lamela and Coentrao, it's all speculation and I don't think people should get excited about our squad when adding a reported name to it.

 

[Jimmy-g]

I think that Huddlestone and Parker were two proven players who gave us a known influence factor, you could have eleven Pele`s playing for you and they would take half a season to gel and find the who does what factor, we will be better up front with Soldado but to be honest that area was easy to improve on, with all these new players the first ten games will interesting, I can see Ade or Defoe and possibly Lennon leaving before the window shuts, I wont fecking know who half of my team are but it will be exciting.

 

[Armchair Expert]

I didn't quite understand it either.

First of all I don't think Dembele played (much) deeper than Parker, I think they played more or less "at the same depth". To me it seemed that they swapped who had the attacking responsibility quite frequently in games. One player would hold, one would push forward. Where these roles were fixed with Parker and Modric they were a lot more fluid with Dembele and Parker.

The only reason I can think of to do this might be that Dembele didn't quite have the energy to continuously take on the most attacking role. It takes a lot of stamina to get forward to support the attack, but then get back to defend every single time. Modric had tremendous stamina and like Dembele he was very reliable and diligent. We had no other option for Dembele in our squad and he played most mid-week games as well and he was reportedly playing with some injury problems at times. Modric on the other hand was usually rested for EL games.

That's my take on it at least. AVB did sub Dembele quite a few times, I think that also supports that he might have been running out of energy in some games and that he couldn't quite play that high energy role pushing on to support the attack as much as Modric did and to some extent as much as Dembele did earlier in the season.

It made sense to me.

I hope i'm understanding the point being made correctly...

I think that Parker was relieved of some of his defensive duties because he was simply too crap. With the passing ability of Modric ripped from our team you couldn't have Parker being the one picking the ball up in front of the back four. Dembele isn't the best passer, but at least he could receive the ball from a defender and dribble ten yards up the pitch, giving us some sort of forward moment and avenue to move the ball up the pitch.

If Parker was the sole player receiving the ball from the back four we would have had fudge all chance of getting out of our own half. A spin here, a loose pass into touch there a straight 5 yard pass to Walker transferring the pressure onto team mates.

Whilst Parker had Modric next to him, who also played fairly deep, he could manage to pass it 6 yards to Modders and let him do the rest. That option wasn't there last season. I think Parker box to box was less of a risk for our team and why not have him doing his headless chicken attacking bit up top rather than in the defensive third? The only reason Parker got a start of any description was Sandro's injury and the subsequent absence of senior players capable of plying box to box: Hudd has the turning circle of the QE2, Livermore is brick, Carroll is also defensive or deep lying and thus more of a competitor for Dembele's spot.

In short: Parker was largely removed from playing deep because he's a fudging dire footballer who then kept his place in the starting line up by default. IMHO anyway.

 

[scaramanga]

I think that Huddlestone and Parker were two proven players who gave us a known influence factor, you could have eleven Pele`s playing for you and they would take half a season to gel and find the who does what factor, we will be better up front with Soldado but to be honest that area was easy to improve on, with all these new players the first ten games will interesting, I can see Ade or Defoe and possibly Lennon leaving before the window shuts, I wont fecking know who half of my team are but it will be exciting.

What makes you say that?

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

I think that Huddlestone and Parker were two proven players who gave us a known influence factor, you could have eleven Pele`s playing for you and they would take half a season to gel and find the who does what factor, we will be better up front with Soldado but to be honest that area was easy to improve on, with all these new players the first ten games will interesting, I can see Ade or Defoe and possibly Lennon leaving before the window shuts, I wont fecking know who half of my team are but it will be exciting.

I am quite astounded at how our fans just automatically assume players we have purchased are upgrades. Have they learned nothing over the years or are they so blinded by optimism that they've lost all common sense?

The chances are that one of our new players will be superb, one will be good and the rest will be meh. That is what usually happens (with any team) that purchases players. The actual success ratio isn't that great, and especially so the more competitive the team because it becomes harder to improve upon.

Parker/Huddlestone were known quantities. Not top drawer, but known. People are working under the illusion that AVB is infallible in the transfer market, that every new player is better than those we let go and all the new players will be a success.

 

[braineclipse]

I am quite astounded at how our fans just automatically assume players we have purchased are upgrades. Have they learned nothing over the years or are they so blinded by optimism that they've lost all common sense?

The chances are that one of our new players will be superb, one will be good and the rest will be meh. That is what usually happens (with any team) that purchases players. The actual success ratio isn't that great, and especially so the more competitive the team because it becomes harder to improve upon.

Parker/Huddlestone were known quantities. Not top drawer, but known. People are working under the illusion that AVB is infallible in the transfer market, that every new player is better than those we let go and all the new players will be a success.

How big is the difference in quality between 'meh' and 'known quantity'?

Yes people are optimistic about new signings. Come on man, we're football fans. What do you expect? For people not to be excited about the new signings, the new season and our prospects?

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

How big is the difference in quality between 'meh' and 'known quantity'?

Yes people are optimistic about new signings. Come on man, we're football fans. What do you expect? For people not to be excited about the new signings, the new season and our prospects?

By known quantities, I mean players we knew to be good enough squad players for a team challenging the top four.

I used to get excited about potential things to come. Then I stopped believing in Santa Claus. I don't deal in potentials. I deal in actuals.

 

[Jimmy-g]

What makes you say that?

New players playing with new players in a new league, the pace and physicality also finding out the best positions for our new players i.e. is Capoo better at DM or CB, I still regard Holtby and Sig as new players, what do they do I have not yet been convinced by either, can Dembele play the 10 role, where will Chadli play?

 

[Jimmy-g]

I am quite astounded at how our fans just automatically assume players we have purchased are upgrades. Have they learned nothing over the years or are they so blinded by optimism that they've lost all common sense?

The chances are that one of our new players will be superb, one will be good and the rest will be meh. That is what usually happens (with any team) that purchases players. The actual success ratio isn't that great, and especially so the more competitive the team because it becomes harder to improve upon.

Parker/Huddlestone were known quantities. Not top drawer, but known. People are working under the illusion that AVB is infallible in the transfer market, that every new player is better than those we let go and all the new players will be a success.

Agreed, it would not be a surprise if the likes of Holtby,Siggy,Chadli and Capoo do not come off, Soldado I think will.

 

[billyiddo]

By known quantities, I mean players we knew to be good enough squad players for a team challenging the top four.

I used to get excited about potential things to come. Then I stopped believing in Santa Claus. I don't deal in potentials. I deal in actuals.

well this is the sticking point, i disagree with that and think although good players at points in their careers neither are of the required quality, back up or not, for a side with the intentions we have in the coming season.

when we sign players, players that i am not too familiar with, i take the angle that the people in charge have done the scouting and decided they are of the required quality - if they are replacing outgoing squad players then i'd assume that the club believe that they are either instant improvements or have the potential to be, especially when the players being replaced are ones that i don't particularly rate.

 

[Spursalot]

I am quite astounded at how our fans just automatically assume players we have purchased are upgrades. Have they learned nothing over the years or are they so blinded by optimism that they've lost all common sense?

The chances are that one of our new players will be superb, one will be good and the rest will be meh. That is what usually happens (with any team) that purchases players. The actual success ratio isn't that great, and especially so the more competitive the team because it becomes harder to improve upon.

Parker/Huddlestone were known quantities. Not top drawer, but known. People are working under the illusion that AVB is infallible in the transfer market, that every new player is better than those we let go and all the new players will be a success.

Huh? You are astounded that some people here have watched the players we have signed and believe they are better then what we have sold?


It's hardly a baffling idea.

 

[milo]

If I read african right he's asking those that are claiming that Dembele was significantly more defensive than Parker last season to provide some evidence to support that. As african doesn't believe that himself the so it isn't on him to prove it. I might have misunderstood something though.

The point is that we didn't play with an out and out DM last season, so it is a bit of a futile argument.

 

[scaramanga]

New players playing with new players in a new league, the pace and physicality also finding out the best positions for our new players i.e. is Capoo better at DM or CB, I still regard Holtby and Sig as new players, what do they do I have not yet been convinced by either, can Dembele play the 10 role, where will Chadli play?

This belief that the football in the Premiership is somehow different, that it requires ability that most players don't have is a fallacy IMO. It's what we told ourselves when English football turned to brick and we wanted to make ourselves feel better. If they're good and they work at it, they'll do well. When players get off to a slow start it's usually a fitness issue more than anything.

As for your questions, those are your questions. I'm pretty sure AVB knows the answer to them already. Just in case, they're below in order:

DM
Not much
No
Inside forward

Problems solved.

 

[Jimmy-g]

Foreign players have said that the prem is a higher tempo and a lot tougher than what they have been used too, I am saying that to expect them to perform at the drop of a hat is not the sensible thing to do, integration is the answer over a period, we could possibly start on Sunday with four players that have never played in the prem, in my eyes not clever.

 

[ArnieArdiles]

Well then Jimmy , lets be thankful we're playing Crystal Palace in our opener as a few of their players are without premeirship experience.

As said already, we've signed Brazilian, French, Spanish and Belgium internationals , four national teams that could well make the semi-finals at next summers world cup . Add to these, Germanys U-21 captain.

I'm optimistic they will quickly adapt.

 

[billyiddo]

we're not making signings for the sake of it Jimmy - we are improving the team/squad, i can see the angle that it's *potentially* a lot of new faces this summer and it may take some time for them to gel fully - but id take that over continuing with the same squad as last season and only a couple of additions/replacements - in the hope that we have built a better more balanced squad.

that's the goal at the end of the day - to build the best squad possible, if we can do that in a small amount of time surely that's of benefit to us as in our position (outside the top 4) we can't really waste time