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George Galloway/Israel/Palestine

Re: George Galloway

AuroRaman said:
I wouldn't say they are to blame solely, our own government has certainly not covered itself in glory and there are other factors from both sides that need fingers pointing at them if we are to produce blame. However, it is quite a sinister relationship between the US and Israel.
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This was going to be my next question.... what is it exactly that Israel has over America and to a lesser extent our Governments. I can't believe that Obama and Cameron have been almost silent during the whole sorry mess. It just doesn't add up, it can't just be guilt which i read somewhere, really ?!£$@£%^ .

Like you say there's something quite sinister or just weird about the relationship. An educated guess might be it gives the West a foothold in the middle east and a base should there ever be a 3rd world war Muslims v The West but then we're all dumb right!
 
Re: George Galloway

scaramanga said:
Thanks - you're right that not everyone in Israel only want to hit military targets. I do believe though, that the general intent of the IDF is to aim for military targets but that their acceptable level of collateral damage is too high.

Whilst the perfect answer is that both sides simply put down their weapons, if forced to pick a right side and a wrong one I'd have to say that both are in the wrong but Hamas far more so because of their intention to hurt civilians rather than just not trying hard enough to stop them getting hurt.

As for the conditions in Palestine, I really don't know what Israel are supposed to do. They could loosen the restrictions on the borders but I don't think any sane person believes that wouldn't result in a massive increase in imported weapons (and therefore more dead Israeli women & children). Even more worryingly, weapons that can do more damage than the ones they have.
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They could give up the lands the stole and take down the wall and let everyone live happily in peace like they used to. Again thats just my own ignorant observation but seems so simple.
 
Thanks Scara for not attributing that as my post!

To answer some of your points from that point purely to my knowledge:

Firstly, why shouldn't a Palestinian army be allowed weapons? As much as we agree about Hamas, in war both sides have the right to bear arms. Israel controls the water, borders and airspace around Gaza/Palestine. There have been instances where they have stopped aid coming through and labeled aid ships as harbouring terrorists, which when investigated were shown to only have humanitarian goods.

When the quote talks about controlling electricity and water supplies, it simply isn't the same case as us with Russia's product. Not only this, Palestinian people's food calorie-intake is being controlled by the Israeli government. They are sustaining Gaza in a manner to stop it just short of being a complete third-world region. This is clearly a pro-Palestine article, but from my albeit limited knowledge there are verifiable truths in this:

http://www.trueactivist.com/11-images-showing-the-extent-of-israels-palestinian-apartheid/

I didn't even clock the 'Jewish' only road part of the quote. Absolutely correct, that is dangerously false and they should have been clear in that it is Israeli, not Jewish. I don't know the author so couldn't say if that was a mistake or not.

In terms of the treatment of Palestinians and 'arresting' people, they are not all criminals and the IDF has form for the mistreatment of CIVILIANS.

I hope I am not coming across as completely one-sided, I just like to bring another viewpoint when discussing these subjects. And again I like to feel I can gain knowledge from other posters as well, especially those that post on here who are living in the region.
 
Re: George Galloway

RomanzoCriminale said:
They could give up the lands the stole and take down the wall and let everyone live happily in peace like they used to. Again thats just my own ignorant observation but seems so simple.
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They didn't have a wall to begin with and they didn't steal any land. That didn't stop the entire region trying to wipe them off the map.

Israel were not the aggressors until forced to defend themselves.
 
Re: George Galloway

scaramanga said:
They didn't have a wall to begin with and they didn't steal any land. That didn't stop the entire region trying to wipe them off the map.

Israel were not the aggressors until forced to defend themselves.
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I don't wholly agree with this bit that's from my own search for some sort of truth. Can you elaborate please? Purely personal interest and to educate myself.
 
Re: George Galloway

scaramanga said:
They didn't have a wall to begin with and they didn't steal any land. That didn't stop the entire region trying to wipe them off the map.

Israel were not the aggressors until forced to defend themselves.
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Scara you seem to be quite clear that the Palestinians or Hamas started all of this..... so why did they start it, why were Israel forced to defend themselves, there must have been a trigger to all of this?

As for not stealing any land, come on you hear about it every few months, new settlements being built in the Strip. Everyones up in arms about Russia annexing off parts of Ukraine, yet turn a blind eye to what Israel have done..... i don't get it. So they took the land in a war, does that make it right?
 
Re: George Galloway

Very interesting reading all of your views....have any of you been to Israel? If so, have you been near the borders? The 'prison' that the palestinians are in, isn't hugely different to that of the israelis in fear of bus bombs etc

My simple answer to all of this, and I'd ask you all to think about this before you respond:

If Palestine laid down it's weapons today, there'd be no more war

If Israel laid down it's weapons today, there'd be no Israel tomorrow
 
Re: George Galloway

clownfoot said:
You are right about our government, but I was hinting more towards the fact Israel has committed numerous war crimes, but under the protection of the USA they have never been brought to trial.
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This for me as well, its amazing how quicky the USA jump in to become the world police when it suits them ( or there is something in it for them), but their near silence over this is disgusting, home of the brave land of the free my ****.
 
Re: George Galloway

dawaxman said:
Very interesting reading all of your views....have any of you been to Israel? If so, have you been near the borders? The 'prison' that the palestinians are in, isn't hugely different to that of the israelis in fear of bus bombs etc

My simple answer to all of this, and I'd ask you all to think about this before you respond:

If Palestine laid down it's weapons today, there'd be no more war



If Israel laid down it's weapons today, there'd be no Israel tomorrow
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Its to simple, The Irish would have said that about the UK 20 years ago.
 
I don't think this parallels with Irish history that closely

I agree with pretty much everything Scara has said but for me dawaxman has nailed it in 2 sentences

as for why Israel have this hold over us and the US, it's pretty obvious to me, guilt, we stood idly by for half a decade whilst a maniac waged genocide on them, one has to wonder how knowingly as well bearing in mind how early it all started
 
Diicks and arrseholes have been wrestling over that land for millenia, using religion as a mask for racism and general hatred

The trouble is when you get loads of diicks and arrseholes wrestling, someone always gets buggered

[VIMEO]50531435[/VIMEO]
 
Re: George Galloway

AuroRaman said:
I don't wholly agree with this bit that's from my own search for some sort of truth. Can you elaborate please? Purely personal interest and to educate myself.
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When I fact hunt this kind of topic, I usually find the best sources to be those the lean slightly towards the other perspective - it gives me a different view and ensures I'm not just solidifying a bias. Fortunately for me, there's always the BBC. They tend to be well respected, have a slightly "left" tilt to them and don't have much time for Israel.

According to their timeline (I've been trying to find the link, but it's years since I read it), there was previously fighting between British and Palestinian forces before Israel was created.

The day after Israel was declared independent, arab armies from 5 different countries all attacked Israel - pretty much every time there's been peace since it's been broken by a bomb or a rocket used to kill innocent Israeli civilians.
 
Re: George Galloway

RomanzoCriminale said:
Scara you seem to be quite clear that the Palestinians or Hamas started all of this..... so why did they start it, why were Israel forced to defend themselves, there must have been a trigger to all of this?

As for not stealing any land, come on you hear about it every few months, new settlements being built in the Strip. Everyones up in arms about Russia annexing off parts of Ukraine, yet turn a blind eye to what Israel have done..... i don't get it. So they took the land in a war, does that make it right?
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If you're talking about fighting between Jews and Muslims then it's been going on since history began and people who wanted to rape women/children and kill gays pretended to hear voices from a higher power.

If you're talking about the state of Israel then the day after the state began to exist, it was attacked by forces from 5 of the countries surrounding it. Some of them have gone on to agree to live in peace (not exactly doves and roses, but not killing each other) whilst some refuse to allow Israel to exist at all.

As for taking land in a war, if the other side started it why shouldn't they keep the land? If Israel had gone out on an empire building mission just to take land I'd think differently, but I have no issue in a needless aggressor losing something in a war it shouldn't have started.
 
Anyway, the answer to all this nonsense has been discovered by a man far cleverer and wittier than me so I'll leave it to him to explain the fix:

[video=youtube;3UO6YlkYNJQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UO6YlkYNJQ[/video]
 
f*ck galloway but surprised with so much anti-isreal rhetoric here.

This is a war going on, civilians regrettably die, its called collateral damage, Israel has done as much as any aggressor could do by robo-calling civillian's premises to alert them of imminent bombings, dropping thousands of leaflets etc
Hamas has only one aim : to drive Israel and its people into the sea , that's it.
People in the Gaza strip voted for Hamas over the more moderate Fatah, live by the sword, die by the sword ?
Every ceasefire has been broken by Hamas shooting rockets into israel, Hamas often launches rockets from or very near to schools, UN centres, hospitals.
Nobody wants to see civillains or kids die but I really dont think Israel has a lot of choice here in defending itself
 
Mr_B said:
f*ck galloway but surprised with so much anti-isreal rhetoric here.

This is a war going on, civilians regrettably die, its called collateral damage, Israel has done as much as any aggressor could do by robo-calling civillian's premises to alert them of imminent bombings, dropping thousands of leaflets etc
Hamas has only one aim : to drive Israel and its people into the sea , that's it.
People in the Gaza strip voted for Hamas over the more moderate Fatah, live by the sword, die by the sword ?
Every ceasefire has been broken by Hamas shooting rockets into israel, Hamas often launches rockets from or very near to schools, UN centres, hospitals.
Nobody wants to see civillains or kids die but I really dont think Israel has a lot of choice here in defending itself
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Not a peep about the wholesale slaughter being perpetrated elsewhere in the Middle East, because Israel isn't involved.
 
Interesting read about the Yazidis
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...idis-anicnet-tribe-Isalmist-never-wipe-H.html

They adhere to a 4,000-year-old faith passed down and adapted through the generations by word of mouth, and composed of elements of several religions.
Their reverence for fire and light derives from the ancient faith called Zoroastrianism, the religion of Persia long before Islam arrived. They combine such Christian practices as baptism with Jewish or Islamic circumcision. Like Buddhists they believe in perpetual reincarnation.
But it is the central tenet of their religion that has led others to brand them devil worshippers.
 
A little confused about the history of Israel, for around a thousand years there has been no Jewish state befor 1948? Then the most hiddus thing happend the the european jews so to say sorry we gave them a land that belonged to someone else?

So if the French for example had suffered the same hiddus crimes during the 30s and 40s we would have given them England? Because they last owned it a thousand years ago?.

Slightly hungover this morning but I am confused as to why israel is Jewish owned and to what right if any they had to that land.


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