George Galloway/Israel/Palestine

[RomanzoCriminale]

How vile is this man.........

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/george-galloway-declares-bradford-an-israelfree-zone-9653894.html?origin=internalSearch


How do people like this get anywhere in life “We have declared Bradford an Israel-free zone.” He said: “We don’t want any Israeli goods. We don’t want any Israeli services. We don’t want any Israeli academics, coming to the university or the college.

Now i have my own thoughts on the situation in Israel/Palestine Hamas are cnuts for bombing Israel, Israel are even bigger cnuts for bombing them like they have done. As usual though its the innocent that have suffered, any innocent life lost is one too many on either side.

One question i'd like to ask anyone who's Israeli or supports them and this is a genuine question, no motive intended......

How would you feel if the government invited someone to come and live in a Bedroom in your house, you didn't have a say in the matter, but anyway they were allowed to do so because apparently a long time ago one of their relatives lived in that house. Then that someone decided they were no longer happy with just having one bedroom, their family was getting bigger they needed more space. Rather than ask you for another room, they thought well i'm bigger and tougher than you, i'll just take another room and then another one and another one....... How would you react to this?

edit *** I should add that this was put to me by a muslim friend and it certainly made me sit and think a little differently. ***

Thats a genuine question, i'm not on anyone's side btw only the innocents. I keep reading that Palestine (Hamas) only have themselves to blame and started this. Yet no one seems to actually talk about the reason why Hamas/Palestinians had to resort to this. From what i can gather before Israel decided to start taking land, there was no Hamas. It might be my ignorance that i don't know enough about this, but i would really like to know more.

Please if you are going to reply do so in an adult way and without accusing me of taking sides, its a genuine question. I realise this is probably going to upset some people but tough, you can't keep ducking the answer.


I do though however feel really sorry for Muslims in Bradford that they actually believe anything Galloway says, self servile ****er.

 

[AuroRaman]

Re: George Galloway

What truly annoys me about Galloway is that the guy actually knows his beans. He's won numerous duels in an informed and knowledgeable manner. But then he comes out with crap like this and has form for it. And that Big Brother moment....

I've been reading up quite heavily on this situation, I have close friends in Tel Aviv, two of my friends in London are ex-Israeli Army and and my sisters other half is a military man who has been drafted in as part of a neutral envoy in Egypt, which will involve going into Palestine. I've really tried to come into this with an open mind, but I can't help but lean towards Palestine the more I try to inform myself of the history of the region up to what is happening now.

You are correct about Hamas, they were not formed until the late eighties I believe? They are not by any means a retaliatory presence in this, they are a terrorist organisation and have used means and continue to attempt to use means to target innocent civilians in Israel. However it says something about the desperation of the Palestinians that they have accepted them as the ruling party in the region. I'm at work at the moment but I'm happy to give more of my take on this situation when I have more time to do so. There are also some very interesting articles and videos that try to remain impartial explaining the history. I'll try to find links to those.

One thing is for sure, when you start killing kids, you lose any sort of ground to call it 'defence'. All this is doing is breeding the next generation of what some call freedom fighters and others would call terrorists.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: George Galloway

How would you feel if the government invited someone to come and live in a Bedroom in your house, you didn't have a say in the matter, but anyway they were allowed to do so because apparently a long time ago one of their relatives lived in that house. Then that someone decided they were no longer happy with just having one bedroom, their family was getting bigger they needed more space. Rather than ask you for another room, they thought well i'm bigger and tougher than you, i'll just take another room and then another one and another one....... How would you react to this?

I agree Galloway is the lowest kind of self-serving hideous cretin.

But, I need to make your (friend's) analogy a little more accurate:

How would you feel if the government invited someone to come and live in the house next door, you didn't have a say in the matter, but anyway they were allowed to do so because apparently a long time ago one of their relatives lived in that house. You are particularly unhappy about this, because your imaginary friend told you not to like them.

You then try to physically stop them moving in and fail. As you're pretty close with the rest of the street you get all the lads together with their knives and bats and go and get ready to force them out. Your new neighbours are wary though as they've had some fairly nasty landlords in the past and they see it coming. They win the fight and keep your house so as to keep you further from their family.

That's OK though, because you're so close to the rest of the street, you just bunk in with them. Then you start acting the d1ck and have a fight with all your friends on the street so they kick you out and you go and ask for your house back.

Your new neighbours give it back in return for you promising to stop throwing bricks through their windows (aimed at their children). They have built a fence between you and made sure you weren't having your mates (career criminals) hand you any more knives/bat/rocks.

You then invite your daughter's new boyfriend to live in the house. His imaginary friend not only tells him to hate your neighbours (who just voluntarily gave back your house in return for you not acting like cvnts any more) but that they shouldn't exist and should all be killed. He starts throwing bricks through their windows again, but this time he's clever about it. He does it wearing your daughter's dress and a wig and throws the rocks from your childrens' playhouse. When your neighbours throw the rocks back at him (aimed very accurately at his face) he picks up your granddaughter and holds her in front of his face. He then runs up and down the street shouting that your neighbours are throwing rocks at your granddaughter.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Re: George Galloway

Israel is massively in the wrong at the moment but what it is doing is giving the chance to a lot of anti Jewes to be really disgusting and racist and dress it up as concerns for Palestine. Had a chap this week sing a song about circumcision to me when he found out I was a spurs fan.

What he does not know is that I am also a cnut who prides himself on never letting go and being a vicious nasty piece of work when he wants to, he will get his in a years time. I always leave it a year so the police do not think it is me and of course I never make threats to these people because I do not want them to know what is coming and yes he was a Chelsea fan.

Israel needs to stop bombing because even though they are targeting teriosts to many civilans are being hurt in the process, they need to find another way.

 

[RomanzoCriminale]

Re: George Galloway

What truly annoys me about Galloway is that the guy actually knows his beans. He's won numerous duels in an informed and knowledgeable manner. But then he comes out with crap like this and has form for it. And that Big Brother moment....

I've been reading up quite heavily on this situation, I have close friends in Tel Aviv, two of my friends in London are ex-Israeli Army and and my sisters other half is a military man who has been drafted in as part of a neutral envoy in Egypt, which will involve going into Palestine. I've really tried to come into this with an open mind, but I can't help but lean towards Palestine the more I try to inform myself of the history of the region up to what is happening now.

You are correct about Hamas, they were not formed until the late eighties I believe? They are not by any means a retaliatory presence in this, they are a terrorist organisation and have used means and continue to attempt to use means to target innocent civilians in Israel. However it says something about the desperation of the Palestinians that they have accepted them as the ruling party in the region. I'm at work at the moment but I'm happy to give more of my take on this situation when I have more time to do so. There are also some very interesting articles and videos that try to remain impartial explaining the history. I'll try to find links to those.

One thing is for sure, when you start killing kids, you lose any sort of ground to call it 'defence'. All this is doing is breeding the next generation of what some call freedom fighters and others would call terrorists.

I'm glad you got in before anyone else misconstrued what i was trying to say and thanks for opening up a bit more about whats going on there, i'd love to read more on whats going on there but googling always seems to lead you to someone else's opinion and not FACT.

The thing that is most sad about all of this is that the majority of Israelis and Palastinians would quite happily live side by side, it's the Governments and those in power as always that seem to think people want war and terror.... Crazy

 

[RomanzoCriminale]

Re: George Galloway

I agree Galloway is the lowest kind of self-serving hideous cretin.

But, I need to make your (friend's) analogy a little more accurate:

How would you feel if the government invited someone to come and live in the house next door, you didn't have a say in the matter, but anyway they were allowed to do so because apparently a long time ago one of their relatives lived in that house. You are particularly unhappy about this, because your imaginary friend told you not to like them.

You then try to physically stop them moving in and fail. As you're pretty close with the rest of the street you get all the lads together with their knives and bats and go and get ready to force them out. Your new neighbours are wary though as they've had some fairly nasty landlords in the past and they see it coming. They win the fight and keep your house so as to keep you further from their family.

That's OK though, because you're so close to the rest of the street, you just bunk in with them. Then you start acting the d1ck and have a fight with all your friends on the street so they kick you out and you go and ask for your house back.

Your new neighbours give it back in return for you promising to stop throwing bricks through their windows (aimed at their children). They have built a fence between you and made sure you weren't having your mates (career criminals) hand you any more knives/bat/rocks.

You then invite your daughter's new boyfriend to live in the house. His imaginary friend not only tells him to hate your neighbours (who just voluntarily gave back your house in return for you not acting like cvnts any more) but that they shouldn't exist and should all be killed. He starts throwing bricks through their windows again, but this time he's clever about it. He does it wearing your daughter's dress and a wig and throws the rocks from your childrens' playhouse. When your neighbours throw the rocks back at him (aimed very accurately at his face) he picks up your granddaughter and holds her in front of his face. He then runs up and down the street shouting that your neighbours are throwing rocks at your granddaughter.

That there is genius i'm sure..... but i'm going to have to read it another 10 times to make sure i understand :lol:

 

[clownfoot]

Re: George Galloway

I know you have asked for a response for anyone that is Israeli, or an Israeli sympathiser, but I thought I'd join in. Firstly, Galloway is making a lot of presumptions to talk on behalf of a whole city.

This video can help explain things if you don't know the background. (And ignore the condescending title about toddlers)
[video=youtube;_4KBz8R2hN4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4KBz8R2hN4[/video]

Hamas, like a lot of militant groups across the globe, was borne out of frustration. I can't condone what they are doing, but the Palestinian people have my complete sympathy. People may be right in saying they are attacking Israel, but if you compare what each has at their disposal, then it seems very one sided. There will never be a correct way to decide who drew the first blow, and that argument adds fuel to fire.

America is to blame for this. Conveniently they have pre-occupied themselves with Iraq as this conflict escalates though.

 

[AuroRaman]

Re: George Galloway

I'm glad you got in before anyone else misconstrued what i was trying to say and thanks for opening up a bit more about whats going on there, i'd love to read more on whats going on there but googling always seems to lead you to someone else's opinion and not FACT.

The thing that is most sad about all of this is that the majority of Israelis and Palastinians would quite happily live side by side, it's the Governments and those in power as always that seem to think people want war and terror.... Crazy

It wasn't hard to see where you were coming from with your post. And you're right, so much of what you read is in fact opinion and propaganda. The bit I bolded in your post is pretty much spot on from what I have heard from my friends in the region and also from Palestinian accounts I've read/viewed.

Chich - you are right, you only have to see what is happening in Syria and with ISIS at the moment to witness how Islamists are using the situation in Palestine/Israel as a means to justify their heinous actions. The worrying trend with these militants is that they are mostly US/CIA trained and were deployed originally to overthrow governments/cause unrest in regions.

Scara - I have to say that your description is spot on in many ways. However there is a lot more to what has happened and is happening currently in the region that isn't simply Israel defending itself etc. The conditions innocent Palestinians have been placed under is akin to apartheid. Also, reporters, peacekeepers and aid workers have pretty much to a man and woman stated that they have seen absolutely no evidence of Hamas using civilians as 'human shields'. On the flipside, quotes from Hamas leaders in the past have been recorded where they state that the Palestinian civilians should be willing to use their bodies to intercept artillery from opposing forces.

 

[AuroRaman]

Re: George Galloway

America is to blame for this. Conveniently they have pre-occupied themselves with Iraq as this conflict escalates though.

I wouldn't say they are to blame solely, our own government has certainly not covered itself in glory and there are other factors from both sides that need fingers pointing at them if we are to produce blame. However, it is quite a sinister relationship between the US and Israel.

 

[clownfoot]

Re: George Galloway

I wouldn't say they are to blame solely, our own government has certainly not covered itself in glory and there are other factors from both sides that need fingers pointing at them if we are to produce blame. However, it is quite a sinister relationship between the US and Israel.

You are right about our government, but I was hinting more towards the fact Israel has committed numerous war crimes, but under the protection of the USA they have never been brought to trial.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: George Galloway

That there is genius i'm sure..... but i'm going to have to read it another 10 times to make sure i understand :lol:

It's a little bit genius, but quite one-sided.

The thing that bothers me about the whole issue is the expectation of balance. Israel are to be criticised because they're militarily quite good?

So it would be OK if Hamas were better at killing Israeli women and children? I just don't get that argument at all.

The question was posed interestingly (but incredibly offensively and clumsily) by Bill Maher when he tweeted "Dealing w/ Hamas is like dealing w/ a crazy woman who's trying to kill u - u can only hold her wrists so long before you have to slap her".

Now we all know it's wrong to hit a woman, hopefully nobody here would ever dream of doing that. But his point is, what if she keeps coming at you? What if she has a knife? What if your child is there and you have to protect him? How much innocent civilian death does Israel have to accept before it's right to retaliate? There has to be a limit somewhere - I suspect if it were my wife and child at risk of a bus explosion or a rocket landing on our house then that level would be much lower than the level set by the middle-class guilt that influences Guardian journalists and the BBC.

 

[AuroRaman]

Re: George Galloway

You are right about our government, but I was hinting more towards the fact Israel has committed numerous war crimes, but under the protection of the USA they have never been brought to trial.

Yes you're quite right. I was actually shocked that they came out recently (cajoled by the UN no doubt) against the most recent air strikes on the UN school and hospitals.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: George Galloway

but if you compare what each has at their disposal, then it seems very one sided.

This is the point I was getting to in the post above - if Hamas were better at killing Israeli women and children would it make it OK then?

 

[scaramanga]

Re: George Galloway

Scara - I have to say that your description is spot on in many ways. However there is a lot more to what has happened and is happening currently in the region that isn't simply Israel defending itself etc. The conditions innocent Palestinians have been placed under is akin to apartheid. Also, reporters, peacekeepers and aid workers have pretty much to a man and woman stated that they have seen absolutely no evidence of Hamas using civilians as 'human shields'. On the flipside, quotes from Hamas leaders in the past have been recorded where they state that the Palestinian civilians should be willing to use their bodies to intercept artillery from opposing forces.

Thanks - you're right that not everyone in Israel only want to hit military targets. I do believe though, that the general intent of the IDF is to aim for military targets but that their acceptable level of collateral damage is too high.

Whilst the perfect answer is that both sides simply put down their weapons, if forced to pick a right side and a wrong one I'd have to say that both are in the wrong but Hamas far more so because of their intention to hurt civilians rather than just not trying hard enough to stop them getting hurt.

As for the conditions in Palestine, I really don't know what Israel are supposed to do. They could loosen the restrictions on the borders but I don't think any sane person believes that wouldn't result in a massive increase in imported weapons (and therefore more dead Israeli women & children). Even more worryingly, weapons that can do more damage than the ones they have.

 

[AuroRaman]

Re: George Galloway

This is the point I was getting to in the post above - if Hamas were better at killing Israeli women and children would it make it OK then?

I get where you're coming from completely. But if we are going to deal with facts, then it is laid bare that with Israel's highly sophisticated army and the equipment they have at their disposal, they have the means to effectively strike at Hamas without the need for so much civilian blood shed (although it is unavoidable completely in war). The government/Netanyahu have also previously stated that they wish to crush the spirit of Palestine, as opposed to take out Hamas.

This is a quote I picked up. Not my view by the way, but just to offer another side:

If I occupied a people, placed a crippling trade and economic embargo on them, placed them under siege, humiliated them daily via military and police checkpoints, controlled their water and electricity, constructed apartheid"Jewish-only roads", shot their children, bombed their schools, mosques and businsses, illegally seized their lands, destroyed their crops, demolished their homes, threw thousands of them in dungeons and treated them like sub-humans and they fired rockets at me - I would probably stop doing all of the above.
Secondly, Israel has been mass murdering the Palestinians for over 60 years - long before any rockets were fired and long before Hamas was even in existence. So this is nothing but a fallacy designed to deflect the reality of the situation and mislead others. Finally, Israel's indiscriminate use of heavy weaponry in civilian areas is a war crime, not self defense.

 

[AuroRaman]

Re: George Galloway

Thanks - you're right that not everyone in Israel only want to hit military targets. I do believe though, that the general intent of the IDF is to aim for military targets but that their acceptable level of collateral damage is too high.

Whilst the perfect answer is that both sides simply put down their weapons, if forced to pick a right side and a wrong one I'd have to say that both are in the wrong but Hamas far more so because of their intention to hurt civilians rather than just not trying hard enough to stop them getting hurt.

As for the conditions in Palestine, I really don't know what Israel are supposed to do. They could loosen the restrictions on the borders but I don't think any sane person believes that wouldn't result in a massive increase in imported weapons (and therefore more dead Israeli women & children). Even more worryingly, weapons that can do more damage than the ones they have.

Yep Scara this is a spot on post. Hamas would most definitely look to cause destruction if restrictions were lifted, they are after all first and foremost religious nut jobs. That is an issue that will come up should there eventually be a resolve to this current situation. The Palestinian people's hell is far from over.

Israel must answer for some of the conditions it has placed the people under purely by means of control though.

 

[AuroRaman]

Re: George Galloway

I will ask for permission from my ex-Israeli army friends and my sisters' partner if I can share some of their stories on here. They are in some cases harrowing, in others incredibly moving but most importantly it gives a very good reflection from people so closely involved with the conflict.

 

[AuroRaman]

Re: George Galloway

But also can we all take a moment to reflect on what a nob jockey George Galloway is

 

[Yossarian]

Re: George Galloway

I agree Galloway is the lowest kind of self-serving hideous cretin.

But, I need to make your (friend's) analogy a little more accurate:

How would you feel if the government invited someone to come and live in the house next door, you didn't have a say in the matter, but anyway they were allowed to do so because apparently a long time ago one of their relatives lived in that house. You are particularly unhappy about this, because your imaginary friend told you not to like them.

You then try to physically stop them moving in and fail. As you're pretty close with the rest of the street you get all the lads together with their knives and bats and go and get ready to force them out. Your new neighbours are wary though as they've had some fairly nasty landlords in the past and they see it coming. They win the fight and keep your house so as to keep you further from their family.

That's OK though, because you're so close to the rest of the street, you just bunk in with them. Then you start acting the d1ck and have a fight with all your friends on the street so they kick you out and you go and ask for your house back.

Your new neighbours give it back in return for you promising to stop throwing bricks through their windows (aimed at their children). They have built a fence between you and made sure you weren't having your mates (career criminals) hand you any more knives/bat/rocks.

You then invite your daughter's new boyfriend to live in the house. His imaginary friend not only tells him to hate your neighbours (who just voluntarily gave back your house in return for you not acting like cvnts any more) but that they shouldn't exist and should all be killed. He starts throwing bricks through their windows again, but this time he's clever about it. He does it wearing your daughter's dress and a wig and throws the rocks from your childrens' playhouse. When your neighbours throw the rocks back at him (aimed very accurately at his face) he picks up your granddaughter and holds her in front of his face. He then runs up and down the street shouting that your neighbours are throwing rocks at your granddaughter.

=D>

 

[scaramanga]

Re: George Galloway

I know this isn't your point, so I'll aim my comments at whoever did write this:

If I occupied a people,

I don't think you can blame the people of Israel for being where they are. Blame the UK and the US certainly, although having seen a fair bit of both arguments (and almost nothing neutral!) I'm inclined to believe that Palestinian supporters are somewhat overstating just how populated the area was before they decided they didn't want it filled with Jews.

placed a crippling trade and economic embargo on them,

The fact that some weapons still make their way into Gaza would suggest to some that the embargo isn't strong enough. I'd like to think there's a way to get food/clothes in and filter the weapons, but the realist in me says that won't happen.

placed them under siege, humiliated them daily via military and police checkpoints,

Self defence, self defence, self defence. Stop blowing up buses, searches will stop. Stop firing rockets, people will stop trying to blow up your launchers.

controlled their water and electricity,

Only in the way that Russia controls the UK gas supply. It has to come from/through somewhere.

constructed apartheid"Jewish-only roads",

Dangerous and entirely false propaganda (I'm going to copy that text as I haven't made it through your post yet but I bet I'll use it again).

Christians, Muslims even ex-Australians were allowed on these roads, they just had to be Israeli citizens. Again, self-defence.

shot their children, bombed their schools, mosques and businsses,

If you fire your rockets from schools, mosques and businesses don't be surprised when destroying those launchers damages them. You want to keep your civilians safe? Distinguish yourselves by uniform (like any other military), house your fighters in military barracks and distinguish yourselves from civilians at all times.

illegally seized their lands, destroyed their crops, demolished their homes

In a war started by those trying to wipe Israel off the map

threw thousands of them in dungeons and treated them like sub-humans

They treated criminals like criminals and imprisoned them?

Secondly, Israel has been mass murdering the Palestinians for over 60 years - long before any rockets were fired and long before Hamas was even in existence. So this is nothing but a fallacy designed to deflect the reality of the situation and mislead others.

Israel has been fighting Palestinians for over 60 years, because Palestinians have been fighting Israel for over 60 years.

Finally, Israel's indiscriminate use of heavy weaponry in civilian areas is a war crime, not self defense.

Has there ever been a war where either side managed to keep heavy weaponry away from civilian areas? Was the shelling of Carentan a war crime?

If you don't want your civilians killed/injured DON'T PRETEND TO BE CIVILIANS. It really is that simple.