Coronavirus

[elyid]

There's usually an outdoor ice skating rink just up the road from my house, probably wishfully thinking for that to open up I presume.

 

[scaramanga]

This post was from the 6th of October. If we knew it on here, why did the government take a month to act?

Its frustrating because we, the government and science knew in early October that we were in trouble again with rising case numbers. The local lockdowns were not done fast enough or with any effectiveness. A month later we shut the country for a month when the cat is out the bag. I don't get why in a time of national crisis they are unable to act decisively and effectively. If they did, people would be onside. No wonder people don't download the app or observe rules, we don't have faith in this government's response, which undermines the national response.

The answer was in Johnson's speech today if you listened.

They govt are avoiding this kind of action until or unless absolutely necessary as they have to balance any perceived value from it against the very real costs to people.

 

[paxtonwolf]

All that will get totally ignored here in the North West. The majority of idiots around here will just continue doing the same things they are now, unless it gets 'policed' better

 

[SpurMeUp]

The answer was in Johnson's speech today if you listened.

They govt are avoiding this kind of action until or unless absolutely necessary as they have to balance any perceived value from it against the very real costs to people.

I believe that is what folks call a false economy. If a virus' exposure is growing exponentially, it is doubling every day right? Everyday you leave it is another day that cases have doubled.

The government failed to act effectively locally in areas where there was exponential growth. How? Why?

If you act early, lockdown can be shorter. This government is consistent: they do things slowly and without great effectiveness. Which for a pandemic is problematic with real economic and national impacts.

 

[Grays_1890]

The answer was in Johnson's speech today if you listened.

They govt are avoiding this kind of action until or unless absolutely necessary as they have to balance any perceived value from it against the very real costs to people.

What's a worry is how lockdowns have now become normalised to some and anyone that feels hard done by because the are scared of losing their job are somehow selfish.

 

[scaramanga]

I believe that is what folks call a false economy. If a virus' exposure is growing exponentially, it is doubling every day right? Everyday you leave it is another day that cases have doubled.

The government failed to act effectively locally in areas where there was exponential growth. How? Why?

If you act early, lockdown can be shorter. This government is consistent: they do things slowly and without great effectiveness. Which for a pandemic is problematic with real economic and national impacts.

I think you are massively underestimating the damage being locked down does.

The govt are right to resist it until it absolutely cannot be avoided any longer. Not only is that better for all of us, but it makes people more likely to listen when it does happen.

 

[spurspinter1]

Life postponed again for how long this time?

Get fudged. I'm going to see my Grandad before he dies, even if have to fight through that wretched excuse of a government one by one, try and fudging stop me. Even if it's only shouting through the letterbox and I have to cross the county border handmaid's tale style.

I'm 100% now of the mindset that the lockdown makes life seem not worth living and luckily I've only had 29 years on this earth, imagine hearing there's another wave of nothingness for some statistically manipulated only deadly after 10 pm excuse of a plague if you only got 6 months left. If we did it well once the virus in theory would be gone right? Depends what day you read the papers I guess.

When something serious comes along this will serve as an example of why we're just a bit brick as a species, borders and extreme politics either side alongside posturing and the invisible money trail cause some fudgers up high are sure doing well from this.

Ugh

 

[SpurMeUp]

I think you are massively underestimating the damage being locked down does.

The govt are right to resist it until it absolutely cannot be avoided any longer. Not only is that better for all of us, but it makes people more likely to listen when it does happen.

If lockdowns are bad, why not have less of it, by acting early?

When everyone can see numbers rising locally, why wouldn’t a government act decisively in those areas? This is a national emergency with lives and huge economic impacts on the line.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[scaramanga]

If lockdowns are bad, why not have less of it, by acting early?

Then when you see numbers rising, why can a government not act decisively in those areas? This is a national emergency with lives and huge economic impacts on the line.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

As is quite clear all.over Europe, if your answer is lockdowns, then you'll be doing that until a vaccine turns up.

Far better to avoid those lockdowns unless or until unavoidable.

 

[LutonSpurs]

Compliance will be lower this time. No doubt about that. People won't be as strict. Schools still being open is sensible as there is nothing concrete to suggest they are causing transmission to rise. But vulnerable teachers (over 60) being asked to work is interesting.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Not after the first time, she had had severe days from it. She would have gone in by now, She will live its just frustrating. Point is those when he said access the service as you would....you can't

I'm talking about the constant dishing out of antibiotics.

 

[Grays_1890]

I'm talking about the constant dishing out of antibiotics.

Yeh true, maybe that's the answer to Covid ha

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Compliance will be lower this time. No doubt about that. People won't be as strict. Schools still being open is sensible as there is nothing concrete to suggest they are causing transmission to rise. But vulnerable teachers (over 60) being asked to work is interesting.

The unions will stop that quickly
Some idiots I know can’t seem to differentiate from education as a COVID category being mainly universities as the attributing numbers... I’ll add that the idiots I regret too are teachers

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

As is quite clear all.over Europe, if your answer is lockdowns, then you'll be doing that until a vaccine turns up.

Far better to avoid those lockdowns unless or until unavoidable.

There is a third hope.

If therapeutic treatments became effective enough that basically no-one died of it, yes you could in worst case scenario have a couple of rough weeks in hospital, but in essence if the fear of a 'death sentence' was nullified, things could get back to normal with just sensible precautions and behaviour.

People don't like people dying and people are sh.it scared of dying. Remove that and we're good?

 

[scaramanga]

There is a third hope.

If therapeutic treatments became effective enough that basically no-one died of it, yes you could in worst case scenario have a couple of rough weeks in hospital, but in essence if the fear of a 'death sentence' was nullified, things could get back to normal with just sensible precautions and behaviour.

People don't like people dying and people are sh.it scared of dying. Remove that and we're good?

We're not far off that now.

 

[Robspur12]

You're confusing antibodies and immunity again.

My limited knowledge of immunology knows that antibodies are just 1 part of the immune system especially when it comes to fighting viruses. but I always understood that antibodies are crucial to establishing immunity. Taken from the American CDC site “Immunity to a disease is achieved through the presence of antibodies to that disease in a person’s system.“ So again the lack of antibodies in the blood stream may well be a crucial factor in us not being able to establish immunity to covid 19 although I accept not the only factor. Take for example Hep B. I was given the injection because of my job, and the test for my immunity to test for the presence of antibodies in my bloodstream.

 

[Legohamster]

As is quite clear all.over Europe, if your answer is lockdowns, then you'll be doing that until a vaccine turns up.

Far better to avoid those lockdowns unless or until unavoidable.

still waiting for the moment they are unavoidable

Not necessarily. Putting something like this in place will need the civil service. They're both leaky as a sieve and politically opposes to the government.

I’m certain it’s sage, look how they jump at any chance to speak to the press. Shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near the press.

 

[scaramanga]

My limited knowledge of immunology knows that antibodies are just 1 part of the immune system especially when it comes to viruses. but I always understood that antibodies are crucial to establishing immunity. Taken from the American CDC site “Immunity to a disease is achieved through the presence of antibodies to that disease in a person’s system.“ So again the lack of antibodies in the blood stream may well be a crucial factor in us not being able to establish immunity to covid 19 although I accept not the only factor.

My analogy was clumsy but accurate.

B & T cells are like the photo of the tank and the mould for pressing the shell. They recognise and fight the virus by creating antibodies. Those antibodies do their job and then are discarded over time - weeks, months, years - depending on the virus.

The B & T cells, however, remain. Once the virus is spotted again, they will create antibodies to fight it. There is no evidence or reason to believe these cells disappear over time - it would be unusual if they did. When you read reports of short term immunity, you are reading about the antibodies, but they are not the immunity, they are the weapon used by the immune system when it is immune.

Edit:
You're not alone in thinking that, BTW.

Almost everyone believes that antibodies are the same thing as the immune system. But it is incredibly normal for antibodies to be shed when they have done their job - as a link further back in this thread stated, if that didn't happen, your blood would become an antibody gloop.

 

[SpurMeUp]

As is quite clear all.over Europe, if your answer is lockdowns, then you'll be doing that until a vaccine turns up.

Far better to avoid those lockdowns unless or until unavoidable.

Therefore you advocate a longer lockdown rather than swift shorter action to nip things in the bud. Your argument is a little contradictory don't you think? Lockdowns are extremely bad, so let things fester until you are desperate and have to have a longer one. Scarasense.

 

[SpurMeUp]

My analogy was clumsy but accurate.

B & T cells are like the photo of the tank and the mould for pressing the shell. They recognise and fight the virus by creating antibodies. Those antibodies do their job and then are discarded over time - weeks, months, years - depending on the virus.

The B & T cells, however, remain. Once the virus is spotted again, they will create antibodies to fight it. There is no evidence or reason to believe these cells disappear over time - it would be unusual if they did. When you read reports of short term immunity, you are reading about the antibodies, but they are not the immunity, they are the weapon used by the immune system when it is immune.

Edit:
You're not alone in thinking that, BTW.

Almost everyone believes that antibodies are the same thing as the immune system. But it is incredibly normal for antibodies to be shed when they have done their job - as a link further back in this thread stated, if that didn't happen, your blood would become an antibody gloop.

The bigger concern are the multiple reports of people having covid twice. in these claimed instances, maybe tests weren't working. Or the virus was dormant. Or they are exceptional cases.

On the whole, I agree, at the least there will be increased immunity from getting the virus. London's low covid figures could well be related to London having had the virus more widely last winter and spring, with it only reaching the NW now. This is highly speculative. We don't know for sure. But it does seem logical that humans do build resistance. And I wish governments were more agile learning about and developing antibody tests that could free people up to help others, contribute to the economy etc. It is frustrating how slow science and governments are. Yes its only 10 months, but this is a global issue. You'd think we'd be testing the zhit out of this virus. First and foremost investing in understanding it.