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British Steel

Baleforce said:
which rulebook is that in, and who signed up to it

seems to be industries in every country being subsidised, look at farming in the US or tourism in the UK
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It has been spoken about a lot over the years, in the news shows I have watched. We had to open up a train building contract to overseas rather then build it in I believe it was Derby, because it was against EU rules for government to subsidise an industry.

It is why I replied to the poster above I know the French and Germans being such good Europeans would never do such a thing.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
It has been spoken about a lot over the years, in the news shows I have watched. We had to open up a train building contract to overseas rather then build it in I believe it was Derby, because it was against EU rules for government to subsidise an industry.

It is why I replied to the poster above I know the French and Germans being such good Europeans would never do such a thing.
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I know a lot of people thought that, but it's not true.
 
Think i might have posted the astartes vids ages ago. Fan film that took years and was an absolute work of art. Now you have a fan that can make this in a matter of weeks with generative ai.

m.youtube.com

Sister of Battle - Warhammer 40k (Unofficial)

Embark on a fan-made odyssey into a realm inspired by the grimdark of Warhammer 40K and the Sisters of Battle. This short film is the result of human imagina...
m.youtube.com m.youtube.com

Yes it is just images pieced together. No story or motion. But this is what we are getting now. Months after these tools are being used. The first games on a new console are shaky. Then a year or 2 in they kick off. (Apart from nintendo).

Yes i am drunk.
 
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TheQuest said:
It seems loosely speaking..... subsidies are allowed by EU states if the purpose is for general economic growth. It could be suggested that covers a lot of bases. ?
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CAP is the biggest one. Wasn't it like 40% of the eu budget?
 
TheQuest said:
It has been suggested part of the UKs steel making problem is being uncompetitive. Other large scale steel producing nations have cheaper energy subsidised by their governments. Our energy costs are too high for the process to be viable.
We could be the first nation to have an extinct steel industry after inventing it in the first place !!
Our successive governments have been reluctant to subsidise our steel industry unlike the USA, Germany, France and Sweden etc.
Our 2050 zero carbon target will be helped but steel has to be produced in its pure form somewhere.....so the polution will happen somewhere on the planet. ?
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Steel is critcal for infrastructure or GHod help us war. Previously it was a protected industry, the countries you listed recognise this. But we need the EU to really affect this conversation. China has long dumped subsidised steel onto world markets. The EU have taken action and put in tarriff which we mirror. But its not enough clearly.

The AI thing is interesting but this latest wave of AI hype is based on language and image processing. Things like fixing robrots or any physical AI worker hasn't really advanced. Anyone remember Hal from 2001 a Space Odessy. A film my father worked on in the 1960s. AI fears and scaremoungering have been around for more than half a century now! Yet we're still going, still have more work than can be done (lack of workers in most developed nations), and AI is yet to takeover.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Steel is critcal for infrastructure or GHod help us war. Previously it was a protected industry, the countries you listed recognise this. But we need the EU to really affect this conversation. China has long dumped subsidised steel onto world markets. The EU have taken action and put in tarriff which we mirror. But its not enough clearly.

The AI thing is interesting but this latest wave of AI hype is based on language and image processing. Things like fixing robrots or any physical AI worker hasn't really advanced. Anyone remember Hal from 2001 a Space Odessy. A film my father worked on in the 1960s. AI fears and scaremoungering have been around for more than half a century now! Yet we're still going, still have more work than can be done (lack of workers in most developed nations), and AI is yet to takeover.
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The media do overhype and go ott. It's what sells.

But automation and ai are replacing jobs. Physical jobs aswell. That's what started this thread. Furnaces being replaced with automated ones.

It's not just replacing jobs, it's suppressing wages.
 
Lilbaz said:
The media do overhype and go ott. It's what sells.

But automation and ai are replacing jobs. Physical jobs aswell. That's what started this thread. Furnaces being replaced with automated ones.

It's not just replacing jobs, it's suppressing wages.
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It’s not a new phenomenon though, manual > automated production lines has been happening for a hundred years.
 
Lilbaz said:
The media do overhype and go ott. It's what sells.

But automation and ai are replacing jobs. Physical jobs aswell. That's what started this thread. Furnaces being replaced with automated ones.

It's not just replacing jobs, it's suppressing wages.
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Wages have been increasing at unprecedented rates. Unemployment is also very low. If you want a job and have half a brain there is plenty of work.

So yes it is hysteria. Humans will always fill the gaps with new activity.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Wages have been increasing at unprecedented rates. Unemployment is also very low. If you want a job and have half a brain there is plenty of work.

So yes it is hysteria. Humans will always fill the gaps with new activity.
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Ofcourse wages are accelerating at unprecedented rates. Because inflation has been through the roof. Companies also can't hire cheap labour from the eu.
From a business perspective it is what is more cost efficient? Have a worker or invest in automation? If you can't replace the worker, you pay them more to keep them. If it's cheaper to automate, you automate.
 
Lilbaz said:
Ofcourse wages are accelerating at unprecedented rates. Because inflation has been through the roof. Companies also can't hire cheap labour from the eu.
From a business perspective it is what is more cost efficient? Have a worker or invest in automation? If you can't replace the worker, you pay them more to keep them. If it's cheaper to automate, you automate.
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Wages wouldn't increase if AI was taking over peoples jobs.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Wages wouldn't increase if AI was taking over peoples jobs.
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It's not taking everyones job today.

I'm not talking about today. I'm talking going forward. The next 5, 10, 20 years.

But people are losing their jobs today (not everybody). And it is suppressing wages today. Just not for every job.

If tomorrow morrisons staff all demanded a 15% wage increase. How long till there would be self service tills like lidls? A month, a year? The option reduces their negotiating power. Which would mean they get less, than otherwise.
 
Lilbaz said:
It's not taking everyones job today.

I'm not talking about today. I'm talking going forward. The next 5, 10, 20 years.

But people are losing their jobs today (not everybody). And it is suppressing wages today. Just not for every job.

If tomorrow morrisons staff all demanded a 15% wage increase. How long till there would be self service tills like lidls? A month, a year? The option reduces their negotiating power. Which would mean they get less, than otherwise.
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Its not threatening jobs today. It is threatening jobs today?

I saw a story about a Dutch supermarket that is putting back serviced tills. And people steal a whole lot more with self check outs. Chatgbt has wowed people, it is a big step forward. But it hasn't ushered in a whole new socio-economic model. It is a language tool. Robots and automation have been around slowly helping humans for a long time - over 100 years. And fears over AI date back over half a century! Stories like 2001 A Space Odessy where the computer takes over. Yet employment is at high levels all over the developed world. Human activity thrives off technology, not the reverse. And it fills in new gaps like water. I don't see the big looming AI threat to jobs personally.
 
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SpurMeUp said:
Its not threatening jobs today. It is threatening jobs today?

I saw a story about a Dutch supermarket that is putting back serviced tills. And people steal a whole more with self check outs. Chatgbt has wowed people, it is a big step forward. But it hasn't ushered in a whole new socio-economic model. It is a language tool. Roberts and automation have been around slowly helping humans for a long time. And fears over AI date back over half a century! Stories like 2001 A Space Odessy where the computer takes over. Yet employment is at high levels all over the developed world. Human activity thrives off technology, not the reverse. And it fills in new gaps like water. I don't see the big looming AI threat to jobs personally.
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It might help if you read my post correctly. It's not threatening "everybodys" job today.

As i said companies will go with what they think is most cost effective. If a person on a till is more cost effective than a self serving one (for whatever reason, whether that be theft, or customers like it more so will shop there). Companies will go for the option that gives them most profit.
 
This isn't about chat gpt or midjourney.

We're in the 4th industrial revolution. We'll have to adapt.

Past industrial revolutions have been more based on physical tasks. We are now entering an age where machines can do creative tasks more efficiently than us.

For a user it will be amazing. But it's going to cost jobs, no doubt. I don't see where those jobs will be replaced apsrt from caring.
 
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