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British Steel

glasgowspur said:
So prices go up, UBI needs go up to cover the increase, so prices go........... And on and on.......
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No. Why talk about prices?..I'm saying in basic terms if a employee cost £30k a year and you replace that employee with AI, you as a business have saved 30k in costs BUT erased a job from the working population.

So, (to keep it simple for illustration). You can split that 30k into 5k IT and AI costs , 15k saving for the company and you'd have to pay £10k in ((let's call it) 'displacement tax' to the government.

Everyone is still better off than before....as we are getting 'the machines ' to do the work.

....as I say, this is all off the top of my head in the last 10 mins!...a debate starting point.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
No. Why talk about prices?..I'm saying in basic terms if a employee cost £30k a year and you replace that employee with AI, you as a business have saved 30k in costs BUT erased a job from the working population.

So, (to keep it simple for illustration). You can split that 30k into 5k IT and AI costs , 15k saving for the company and you'd have to pay £10k in ((let's call it) 'displacement tax' to the government.

Everyone is still better off than before....as we are getting 'the machines ' to do the work.

....as I say, this is all off the top of my head in the last 10 mins!...a debate starting point.
Click to expand...

How are the people without a job better off? More leisure time? Just like all those ghost towns Mrs Thatcher created and her "there is no such thing as society" ideology.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
No. Why talk about prices?..I'm saying in basic terms if a employee cost £30k a year and you replace that employee with AI, you as a business have saved 30k in costs BUT erased a job from the working population.

So, (to keep it simple for illustration). You can split that 30k into 5k IT and AI costs , 15k saving for the company and you'd have to pay £10k in ((let's call it) 'displacement tax' to the government.

Everyone is still better off than before....as we are getting 'the machines ' to do the work.

....as I say, this is all off the top of my head in the last 10 mins!...a debate starting point.
Click to expand...


Yes it's a debate, I'm not saying I'm right or anyone else is wrong, I just have an inherent distrust of anything that appears to good to be true.
That may stem for decades of supporting spurs.

If an employee is going from £30k wage to £10k UBI how is he better off?
Government is losing out on tax on the £20k the employee is no longer being paid.
Price is important because the cost of the goods or products is a reflection of their cost to produce.
Also if you reduce your workforce you reduce your customer base because the customer no longer has the money to pay for the goods.
The company is cutting a cost by half, that may not even be their biggest cost.
Income is being cut by two thirds.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
How are the people without a job better off? More leisure time? Just like all those ghost towns Mrs Thatcher created and her "there is no such thing as society" ideology.
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We all want more leisure time, but if you don't have the money to back it up it soon loses it's gloss.
Leisure is very expensive these days.

And I'm not convinced that it's such a good idea, look at the carnage furlough cost to people's mental health.
As a species we need a purpose and a reason to feel useful to our society.
Take that away and we suffer.
I do think that drive wains as you get older, by middle age you settle into a more passive role.
 
glasgowspur said:
So prices go up, UBI needs go up to cover the increase, so prices go........... And on and on.......
Click to expand...

As i said we need to rethink our whole economy. Especially where we are along the socialist/capitalist spectrum.

If we have robots and ai doing all the work.
 
Lilbaz said:
Driverless taxis are already on the streets in america. Delivery driver jobs will be going soon. As well as truck drivers. Bus drivers etc...

www.youtube.com

San Francisco Is Teeming With Self-Driving Cars And It’s A Mess

Self-driving cars without safety drivers behind the wheel have flooded San Francisco streets. In August, two of the leading autonomous vehicle companies, Gen...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
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Did you watch that video? It's a news report on the failure and withdrawal of robotaxi license.
 
glasgowspur said:
Did you watch that video? It's a news report on the failure and withdrawal of robotaxi license.
Click to expand...

Watch the whole video. The gm one failed and got it's licence revoked. The google one is doing fine. The emergency service complained it took them almost 60 seconds to get out after a hit and run (by a car with a driver). But that was about it. No accidents or anything. The more they drive the more they learn. They will become the norm in the future.
 
Lilbaz said:
Watch the whole video. The gm one failed and got it's licence revoked. The google one is doing fine. The emergency service complained it took them almost 60 seconds to get out after a hit and run (by a car with a driver). But that was about it. No accidents or anything. The more they drive the more they learn. They will become the norm in the future.
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Not saying that they won't become the norm, I'm just not convinced it's as close as we are being led to believe.
 
glasgowspur said:
Not saying that they won't become the norm, I'm just not convinced it's as close as we are being led to believe.
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I'm talking the next 10 years. But that isn't a one off. You have driverless taxis in other cities across america now and in other countries. How long did it take digital to overtake kodak? Iphone to kill blackberry?
 
Lilbaz said:
I'm talking the next 10 years. But that isn't a one off. You have driverless taxis in other cities across america now and in other countries. How long did it take digital to overtake kodak? Iphone to kill blackberry?
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10 years is feasible for a majority % for taxi use, don't think that's unreasonable.
But maybe by then we will all have hover boards.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
How are the people without a job better off? More leisure time? Just like all those ghost towns Mrs Thatcher created and her "there is no such thing as society" ideology.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying people are better off. Just a first step response to the (assumed) inevitable 30% (for example) reduction in available jobs due to AI.

If it's a zero sum game, then there will be many people without jobs and no jobs to apply for. Yes, there's the reskilling, career change arguments but on a simple level it's there will be a massive lack of jobs versus people so what do we do? The first question is, how will these people be supported?...hence my answer.
 
glasgowspur said:
We all want more leisure time, but if you don't have the money to back it up it soon loses it's gloss.
Leisure is very expensive these days.

And I'm not convinced that it's such a good idea, look at the carnage furlough cost to people's mental health.
As a species we need a purpose and a reason to feel useful to our society.
Take that away and we suffer.
I do think that drive wains as you get older, by middle age you settle into a more passive role.
Click to expand...
Aren't we talking about something that's enforced? ie probably not a choice.

On a side note I beg to differ on lesuire being expensive....it sooooo doesn't have to be.
 
It has been suggested part of the UKs steel making problem is being uncompetitive. Other large scale steel producing nations have cheaper energy subsidised by their governments. Our energy costs are too high for the process to be viable.
We could be the first nation to have an extinct steel industry after inventing it in the first place !!
Our successive governments have been reluctant to subsidise our steel industry unlike the USA, Germany, France and Sweden etc.
Our 2050 zero carbon target will be helped but steel has to be produced in its pure form somewhere.....so the polution will happen somewhere on the planet. ?
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
I'm not saying people are better off. Just a first step response to the (assumed) inevitable 30% (for example) reduction in available jobs due to AI.

If it's a zero sum game, then there will be many people without jobs and no jobs to apply for. Yes, there's the reskilling, career change arguments but on a simple level it's there will be a massive lack of jobs versus people so what do we do? The first question is, how will these people be supported?...hence my answer.
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You said, "everyone is better off".
 
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