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Brazilian Ronaldo or Portugazer one?

Fat Ronaldo in my opinion.

I have to concede the other Ronaldo is a phenomenal player even though I detest him immensely and will also go down as one of the greats.
 
scaramanga said:
This for me.

I think the Brazilian one probably would have been the better player had he stayed fit for longer. But based on what has actually happened, the Portuguese one has been a better player.

I also think that if you put the Portuguese one in that Brazilian team he'd have a few golden boots on his shelf at home.

There's also a lot of hate (not on here) for the Portuguese one because he preens, used to dive and loves rooster. He's been made into a pantomime villain by the British press in a way that only our neanderthal football community can.
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Yep, happy to admit I cannot stand him. A lot of forwards, Messi included are selfish to a degree. Ronaldo is full out selfish with no regard for any other forward on the pitch whatsoever, doesn't celebrate teammates' goals and acts like a spoilt brat when things don't go his way. I hate to turn this into another Messi v Ronaldo debate but that's what sets the two of them apart. Messi would be happy to assist 3 goals, not score any but win the game whereas Ronaldo has to be the glory boy, exhibit A being that he has to take the 5th penalty in a penalty shootout so he can take the winning penalty. His diving never bothered me and doesn't now more so than any other player's tendancy to dive bothers me.

All of the above aside, I realise he is a an absolute beast of a player and one of the all time greats.
 
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scaramanga said:
Why do you dislike him so much?
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What's to like about him besides his football ability?

He shows no regard for any teammates, he's arrogant, doesn't celebrate his teammates's goals, his comments about Iceland during the Euros. Even Man United fans who love him for his ability and what he did for them acknowledge that he's a clam. I never liked him when he was at United but tolerated him as he was stopping Arsenal and Chelsea from winning titles but his selfishness and arrogance has gone up to another level in the last few years at Madrid.
 
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Am maybe setting myself up for this but the statement that he like Rooster suggests he is gay? Is he Gay? Not that it matters just genuine in that I have not heard this before
 
Grays_1890 said:
Oh and on ability, Brazil Ron for me

Under Bobby he was unplayable, the goal when you see Bobbys face after is insane
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To think that El Fenomeno was scoring goals like this for Barcelona at the tender age of 20, on his way to picking up the European Golden Boot (for his haul of 34 goals in 37 La Liga games) and becoming the youngest World Footballer of the Year... whilst Cristiano at the same age was known for doing stepovers and diving...



 
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depends on how you interpret the question

- Which one does most people like more? = probably fat Ronaldo
- Which one was the better player over a career = no question, CR

CR's ability to annoy people blinds most to the fact that his record is insane, goals, trophies, scoring ratio (his goal/game ratio in Spain is better than Messi as e.g.)
 
Il Fenomeno. Don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for what CRon's managed to do - he even almost single-handedly dragged his hitherto-trophyless country into the Euro final and then basically managed them as they won it. When he retires, his record and his achievements will be recognized as among (if not at the top of) football's greatest-ever. And his relentless professionalism means that he will have fully deserved it - the man is single-mindedly devoted to his career, and that is a necessary prerequisite to being great. His selfishness on the pitch is a turn-off, true - but by all accounts, he's a good person off of it, so it doesn't really mean as much as it would have if he had been a complete bastard.

But I'm a believer in the idea that there's an intangible sort of magic that you feel when you watch a certain player versus another that tells you something statistics or facts wouldn't ever be able to. And watching R9 through undimmed childhood eyes was what helped me fall in love with football in the first place. That hat-trick against United that @SteveAWOL linked - he was supposedly well off his peak at that time, and his best years at Barcelona and PSV had actually passed by the time I started watching football in general. But he could still go out and do *that*. He could still go out and dominate the World Cup (at times almost impudently) in 2002. He could go out and leave three, four, five defenders on their a*ses in the Madrid derby before stroking into the far corner. And he could do all that playing on terribly damaged, shaky knees, much like Ledley's, which robbed him of a career that would otherwise have surpassed all others.

Maybe today's kids will see CRon and feel the same way. But for me, having to concurrently watch us flail haplessly around in lower mid-table while Arsenal dominated the league, went unbeaten and looked like golden footballing gods...Il Fenomeno provided me with an escape from that reality, an escape into a fantasy footballing world where effortlessly skillful, impudently cheery Brazilian forwards could play beautifully and take the world with them for a wild, unbridled ride, even as it seemed everything was stacked against them. To me, CRon's Madrid exploits seem...cold. Clinical. Calculated. Rack up the goals, rack up the stats, rack up the history. But R9 seemed *magical*. I guess that's as clearly as I can put it. :p
 
@DubaiSpur well said, The original Ronaldo was a get out of your sit player, I loved players like that, Hagi though no where near as good had a similar effect so did Van Basten. I like a player with a bit of flair, The younger one feels like the Russian boxer in the rocky movies, talented but talented more by design and not the spark of genius.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
@DubaiSpur well said, The original Ronaldo was a get out of your sit player, I loved players like that, Hagi though no where near as good had a similar effect so did Van Basten. I like a player with a bit of flair, The younger one feels like the Russian boxer in the rocky movies, talented but talented more by design and not the spark of genius.
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I know what you mean - coldly engineered to be great, as opposed to spontaneously *becoming* great. :p I think that's the same reason why a lot of people just can't believe how consistently good Eriksen really is - it's because he feels like that sort of ruthlessly engineered precision footballer, and that's more difficult to warm to than a more carefree, spontaneous type. Not his fault, of course, and maybe football's better off as a whole with players being more checkbox-ticking and goal-oriented...but there's an intangible magic that happens when certain players get the ball that's just magical. You might not get a guaranteed goal, assist or 'play-advancing' move out of it the way you might if someone like CRon was given the ball in a similar situation, but you'd definitely have a fair chance of seeing a spontaneous piece of skill or a bit of magic that just leaves you chuckling... and happy about the way football can still bring the awestruck kid out of you so effortlessly after all these years.

Ronaldo was that type. More so because he wasn't pointlessly spontaneous either - more often than not, he was also wildly effective when he took the ball into his stride and began swaying his hips in that way that defenders started dreading. You got magic *and* a goal - what wasn't to like? :)
 
Interesting discussion, the spontaneous (and often flawed) vs. the brutally clinical.

Have to say, I appreciate the clinical, and part of that is modern Spurs, Poch's Tottenham can be machine like
 
Raziel said:
Interesting discussion, the spontaneous (and often flawed) vs. the brutally clinical.

Have to say, I appreciate the clinical, and part of that is modern Spurs, Poch's Tottenham can be machine like
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We are flawed as humans, though. Which is why we like to see it in our footballers to an extent. Bielsa once remarked that he'd never lose a game if footballers were machines, because his tactics embodied theoretical perfection. But I don't think anyone would want to watch such a team, or that they'd even go down as anything memorable (they would be remarkable, but not *memorable*).

I agree that our history has erred towards being too crowded with flawed mavericks or flawed football teams at the expense of ruthlessness and clinical play. So Poch's team is a welcome change. But nonetheless, the simple fact of the matter (at least in my view) is that when asked to remember a goal from, say, Van Der Vaart, versus a goal from Eriksen, people will tend to remember the former - it's unfair to Eriksen because it isn't his fault that he's brilliant in that efficient, clinical sense, but that's the truth of the matter. Van Der Vaart was a temperamental, passionate man, and a flawed footballer in his own right (lung capacity of a baby, tracing paper hamstrings, etcetera)...but those flaws made him memorable.

With Il Fenomeno, it's all the more poignant and potent because his flaws were not big enough to stop him from being truly awe-inspiring and great in his own right...but they stopped him from reaching a height that even a coldly clinical CRon wouldn't have been able to reach.
 
CR9 for me. Arrogance is what makes him the best. He doesn't think he's the best he knows he's the best. Plus Brazil Ronaldo wouldn't have made me want to buy that slendertone 6 pack thing where cR9 rubs his stomach.

Sííííííííí!
 
GinolaGinolaGinola said:
CR9 for me. Arrogance is what makes him the best. He doesn't think he's the best he knows he's the best. Plus Brazil Ronaldo wouldn't have made me want to buy that slendertone 6 pack thing where cR9 rubs his stomach.

Sííííííííí!
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Is he the best, though? Every top-level player has that self-confidence - you don't reach the levels a pro reaches without some implicit belief that you're better than most, if not all. Nicklas Bendtner thinks he's the best player in the world, for example. And in CRon's case, that self-belief and arrogance about being the best might not even be justified considering that he has had the misfortune to have seen his playing career coincide with the elephant in the room, an effortlessly unstoppable man who makes even Ronaldo's stats look inferior - namely, L. Messi, Esquire. And unlike Ronaldo, Messi doesn't need to go on about it every time he wins the Ballon d'Or, which I actually find a mite more edifying. :p
 
DubaiSpur said:
Is he the best, though? Every top-level player has that self-confidence - you don't reach the levels a pro reaches without some implicit belief that you're better than most, if not all. Nicklas Bendtner thinks he's the best player in the world, for example. And in CRon's case, that self-belief and arrogance about being the best might not even be justified considering that he has had the misfortune to have seen his playing career coincide with the elephant in the room, an effortlessly unstoppable man who makes even Ronaldo's stats look inferior - namely, L. Messi, Esquire. And unlike Ronaldo, Messi doesn't need to go on about it every time he wins the Ballon d'Or, which I actually find a mite more edifying. :p
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not that it really matters (it's a team sport, and neither would win anything on their own, unlike The Zlatan), but they have both been worthy of the accolade during their careers and the drive from the rivalry has helped them both
 
galeforce said:
not that it really matters (it's a team sport, and neither would win anything on their own, unlike The Zlatan), but they have both been worthy of the accolade during their careers and the drive from the rivalry has helped them both
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It's just unfortunate for both of them - they put up truly insane stats that break all sorts of records, but then they have to beat *each other* in the race to post even more ridiculous numbers. The title of 'best player in the world' has basically become a sort of baton they pass between each other, and each will likely always be talked about with heavy caveats necessitated by the presence of the other, even long after they retire. Whereas in a less competitive age where only one of them was active at any given time, they would each be the undisputed kings of their respective playing careers.

I agree, though - ultimately, there are eleven men or women facing up against eleven others on any football pitch, not just the one against the rest. So it's less about the 'best' in this sport than it is in others, even as recognizing individual talent still plays a big part in football as a whole. And, now that they're both reaching the twilight of their careers, maybe we'll see an undisputed 'best' emerge again - or, alternately, see several players compete for that title.
 
DubaiSpur said:
It's just unfortunate for both of them - they put up truly insane stats that break all sorts of records, but then they have to beat *each other* in the race to post even more ridiculous numbers. The title of 'best player in the world' has basically become a sort of baton they pass between each other, and each will likely always be talked about with heavy caveats necessitated by the presence of the other, even long after they retire. Whereas in a less competitive age where only one of them was active at any given time, they would each be the undisputed kings of their respective playing careers.

I agree, though - ultimately, there are eleven men or women facing up against eleven others on any football pitch, not just the one against the rest. So it's less about the 'best' in this sport than it is in others, even as recognizing individual talent still plays a big part in football as a whole. And, now that they're both reaching the twilight of their careers, maybe we'll see an undisputed 'best' emerge again - or, alternately, see several players compete for that title.
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I think they might see it the other way once they have retired, it's like the batman and the joker, they needed each other
 
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