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Black Lives Matter

Thank you both. @glasgowspur I didn't think you were taking the tinkle at all.

I'll try to answer your question mate, I'm not sure how eloquent I can be as there's a lot of stuff in my head that isn't necessarily being formulated into an answer.

When someone tells me they don't see colour it is usually in the context of a discussion or discourse around race/ethnicity. By saying they don't see colour, it instantly undermines any experiences I have had where I have been made acutely aware of my colour/ethnicity/background (an almost daily occurrence). It makes me and my experiences invisible and not worthy of further discussion purely because I have never had the privilege of being able to 'not see colour'. I doubt I ever will in my lifetime unless the the foundations of our systems and institutions are rebuilt from the ground up.

By saying 'I don't see colour', the message being portrayed to POC is that there is no acknowledgement of the natural racial profiling and/or bias and insidious, sometimes covertly hidden institutionalised racism that continues up to the present day, simply because that person doesn't see it or experience it for themselves.

To bring in an example similar to what Bedford wrote in his post. I used to work in an office where there was myself and another Indian chap. Complete opposites physically and our names were not similar in the slightest. He's short, very dark complexion whereas I am tall and of light complexion. Also two very different personalities. At least twice a day (I'm being conservative here), the white people in the office would get our names mixed up or call us the other person's name when addressing us. It was either not acknowledged or laughed off. I too shrugged it off for a long time but then it hit me; no-one mistook Paul and Thomas or Hannah and Nikki for each other. So I started calling my colleagues out on it, often in a humorous manner but I received very defensive responses along the lines of 'I'm not racist, I don't see colour, how dare you imply that I am and do'. For the record I never insinuated anyone was being racist. One particular time I called a colleague out on it and he stopped for a moment in thought, then turned to me and said 'that's not ok, is it?' I honestly could've bear-hugged him just for the acknowledgement. My name isn't hard to pronounce by the way, it's Raman and a lot of people call me Ram.

A couple more personal examples:
I've been congratulated for 'not looking Indian' by white people
It has become second-nature to me to be mindful of what I am wearing and what bag I should carry when I know I'm going on public transport, because I don't wan't to receive 'that look'.
I have lost potential freelance employment based on my name and for a time when I worked in recruitment, I witnessed first hand the profiling by clients (mostly subconsciously) of candidates they hadn't met based on name and skin colour. I have been told 'oh thank GHod, I thought you weren't going to be able to speak English' when I've turned up on a job. Or 'you're not how I expected you to sound/look like'.
Having to explain 'where I'm really from' every time someone asks me where I'm from, then having to explain my skin tone as I don't look Indian enough or being told I'm outright lying.
Having to prepare myself if I get into a potentially argumentative situation with someone I don't know for the eventual reference to my colour/background/ethnicity

I have to see colour even when I don't wish to. To be able to say 'I don't see colour' is a privilege in itself, but I also think it masks the underlying issue of not wanting to feel uncomfortable. This is not to undermine your valid experience of referencing your circle of friends and being able to differentiate colour and character. Chich made a valid example too where someone's skin colour shouldn't shield them or trap them in being called out for behaving badly. I have predominantly white friendship circles where my colour and background is hardly ever in my thoughts. Unless we discussed subjects around race, where even my closest friends have fallen into a trap of expecting me to share their experience because they 'don't see colour'. They don't use that term anymore based on us sharing experiences and listening to each others viewpoints.

I was looking for a great article I read a couple of years ago on the science of seeing colour and how it's impossible not to, but sadly I can't find it. However I did find this one just now which I think expresses my personal viewpoints so much more succinctly.

So the tl;dr is this https://theeverygirl.com/i-dont-see-color/ !
I worked with a girl was had a peculiar surname so I asked her if it was Maltese (I had a brief spell in a hospital on holiday there so out of boredom did research on the island history and people)
She was chuffed that someone knew that and was interested
Then some knob came in and asked her is she was a Malteser then....
that’s the kind set of people sometimes
 
@AuroRaman thank you for what you eloquently wrote.
I've hesitated to enter into this specific issue too much or talk about my own personal experiences/opinions.
I'm glad you did because they are different and more 'acceptable/mainstream' than mine.

Although I am a person of colour, I don't get offended by the phrase 'playing the race card', but I understand why you and others are.
 
I worked with a girl was had a peculiar surname so I asked her if it was Maltese (I had a brief spell in a hospital on holiday there so out of boredom did research on the island history and people)
She was chuffed that someone knew that and was interested
Then some knob came in and asked her is she was a Malteser then....
that’s the kind set of people sometimes

Tell me about it! My surname has only ever been correctly pronounced to me by one person, at the first time they see it.
But the number who keep getting it wrong after years of knowing me is possibly a bit too high.
 
Thank you both. @glasgowspur I didn't think you were taking the tinkle at all.

I'll try to answer your question mate, I'm not sure how eloquent I can be as there's a lot of stuff in my head that isn't necessarily being formulated into an answer.

When someone tells me they don't see colour it is usually in the context of a discussion or discourse around race/ethnicity. By saying they don't see colour, it instantly undermines any experiences I have had where I have been made acutely aware of my colour/ethnicity/background (an almost daily occurrence). It makes me and my experiences invisible and not worthy of further discussion purely because I have never had the privilege of being able to 'not see colour'. I doubt I ever will in my lifetime unless the the foundations of our systems and institutions are rebuilt from the ground up.

By saying 'I don't see colour', the message being portrayed to POC is that there is no acknowledgement of the natural racial profiling and/or bias and insidious, sometimes covertly hidden institutionalised racism that continues up to the present day, simply because that person doesn't see it or experience it for themselves.

To bring in an example similar to what Bedford wrote in his post. I used to work in an office where there was myself and another Indian chap. Complete opposites physically and our names were not similar in the slightest. He's short, very dark complexion whereas I am tall and of light complexion. Also two very different personalities. At least twice a day (I'm being conservative here), the white people in the office would get our names mixed up or call us the other person's name when addressing us. It was either not acknowledged or laughed off. I too shrugged it off for a long time but then it hit me; no-one mistook Paul and Thomas or Hannah and Nikki for each other. So I started calling my colleagues out on it, often in a humorous manner but I received very defensive responses along the lines of 'I'm not racist, I don't see colour, how dare you imply that I am and do'. For the record I never insinuated anyone was being racist. One particular time I called a colleague out on it and he stopped for a moment in thought, then turned to me and said 'that's not ok, is it?' I honestly could've bear-hugged him just for the acknowledgement. My name isn't hard to pronounce by the way, it's Raman and a lot of people call me Ram.

A couple more personal examples:
I've been congratulated for 'not looking Indian' by white people
It has become second-nature to me to be mindful of what I am wearing and what bag I should carry when I know I'm going on public transport, because I don't wan't to receive 'that look'.
I have lost potential freelance employment based on my name and for a time when I worked in recruitment, I witnessed first hand the profiling by clients (mostly subconsciously) of candidates they hadn't met based on name and skin colour. I have been told 'oh thank GHod, I thought you weren't going to be able to speak English' when I've turned up on a job. Or 'you're not how I expected you to sound/look like'.
Having to explain 'where I'm really from' every time someone asks me where I'm from, then having to explain my skin tone as I don't look Indian enough or being told I'm outright lying.
Having to prepare myself if I get into a potentially argumentative situation with someone I don't know for the eventual reference to my colour/background/ethnicity

I have to see colour even when I don't wish to. To be able to say 'I don't see colour' is a privilege in itself, but I also think it masks the underlying issue of not wanting to feel uncomfortable. This is not to undermine your valid experience of referencing your circle of friends and being able to differentiate colour and character. Chich made a valid example too where someone's skin colour shouldn't shield them or trap them in being called out for behaving badly. I have predominantly white friendship circles where my colour and background is hardly ever in my thoughts. Unless we discussed subjects around race, where even my closest friends have fallen into a trap of expecting me to share their experience because they 'don't see colour'. They don't use that term anymore based on us sharing experiences and listening to each others viewpoints.

I was looking for a great article I read a couple of years ago on the science of seeing colour and how it's impossible not to, but sadly I can't find it. However I did find this one just now which I think expresses my personal viewpoints so much more succinctly.

So the tl;dr is this https://theeverygirl.com/i-dont-see-color/ !


Really thanks for that, it explains it all very nicely.
Although it is something that I can not experience or understand the treatment of POC is something I am aware of.
Again apologies for any clumsy language here, one of the reasons that I don't take notice of physical differences is because I am aware of how people are treated because of them*. I can see from reading your post that can be taken as not seeing it or trivialising it. That is not my intent and I will try to bear that in mind in future.
I'm taking a break from demolishing a hedge, I will read your link later.

* I have a mate who is a fitness fanatic and gives anyone he can a hard time about their body shape. One girl in particular, even though her body shape is no worse than my mates wife. I don't feel I can call him out on it too hard because it's kind insulting his wife, who is a really nice woman and I don't feel she deserves that. It's not her fault her husband can be an arse hole.

Ps just a well you don't work with me, I've got girls I've worked with for 20 plus years and I can't remember their names. I think that's age mind you.
 
Tell me about it! My surname has only ever been correctly pronounced to me by one person, at the first time they see it.
But the number who keep getting it wrong after years of knowing me is possibly a bit too high.

My surname is Irish, it's very similar to another that a lot of famous people have.
It used annoy the fudge out of me when people got it wrong. Not because I think I'm special or the name is precious, but it's a common bloody courtesy. Everyone should at least be afforded the courtesy of having their name respected.
I've given up on it now.
 
Have you seen how the media treat Sterling compared to other players? The racism is clear for me.

Didn’t Gazza get similar treatment when he was playing.
Sterling is one of our best players and we do have a habit of unfairly criticising and putting down our talented footballers.
 
Thank you both. @glasgowspur I didn't think you were taking the tinkle at all.

I'll try to answer your question mate, I'm not sure how eloquent I can be as there's a lot of stuff in my head that isn't necessarily being formulated into an answer.

When someone tells me they don't see colour it is usually in the context of a discussion or discourse around race/ethnicity. By saying they don't see colour, it instantly undermines any experiences I have had where I have been made acutely aware of my colour/ethnicity/background (an almost daily occurrence). It makes me and my experiences invisible and not worthy of further discussion purely because I have never had the privilege of being able to 'not see colour'. I doubt I ever will in my lifetime unless the the foundations of our systems and institutions are rebuilt from the ground up.

By saying 'I don't see colour', the message being portrayed to POC is that there is no acknowledgement of the natural racial profiling and/or bias and insidious, sometimes covertly hidden institutionalised racism that continues up to the present day, simply because that person doesn't see it or experience it for themselves.

To bring in an example similar to what Bedford wrote in his post. I used to work in an office where there was myself and another Indian chap. Complete opposites physically and our names were not similar in the slightest. He's short, very dark complexion whereas I am tall and of light complexion. Also two very different personalities. At least twice a day (I'm being conservative here), the white people in the office would get our names mixed up or call us the other person's name when addressing us. It was either not acknowledged or laughed off. I too shrugged it off for a long time but then it hit me; no-one mistook Paul and Thomas or Hannah and Nikki for each other. So I started calling my colleagues out on it, often in a humorous manner but I received very defensive responses along the lines of 'I'm not racist, I don't see colour, how dare you imply that I am and do'. For the record I never insinuated anyone was being racist. One particular time I called a colleague out on it and he stopped for a moment in thought, then turned to me and said 'that's not ok, is it?' I honestly could've bear-hugged him just for the acknowledgement. My name isn't hard to pronounce by the way, it's Raman and a lot of people call me Ram.

A couple more personal examples:
I've been congratulated for 'not looking Indian' by white people
It has become second-nature to me to be mindful of what I am wearing and what bag I should carry when I know I'm going on public transport, because I don't wan't to receive 'that look'.
I have lost potential freelance employment based on my name and for a time when I worked in recruitment, I witnessed first hand the profiling by clients (mostly subconsciously) of candidates they hadn't met based on name and skin colour. I have been told 'oh thank GHod, I thought you weren't going to be able to speak English' when I've turned up on a job. Or 'you're not how I expected you to sound/look like'.
Having to explain 'where I'm really from' every time someone asks me where I'm from, then having to explain my skin tone as I don't look Indian enough or being told I'm outright lying.
Having to prepare myself if I get into a potentially argumentative situation with someone I don't know for the eventual reference to my colour/background/ethnicity

I have to see colour even when I don't wish to. To be able to say 'I don't see colour' is a privilege in itself, but I also think it masks the underlying issue of not wanting to feel uncomfortable. This is not to undermine your valid experience of referencing your circle of friends and being able to differentiate colour and character. Chich made a valid example too where someone's skin colour shouldn't shield them or trap them in being called out for behaving badly. I have predominantly white friendship circles where my colour and background is hardly ever in my thoughts. Unless we discussed subjects around race, where even my closest friends have fallen into a trap of expecting me to share their experience because they 'don't see colour'. They don't use that term anymore based on us sharing experiences and listening to each others viewpoints.

I was looking for a great article I read a couple of years ago on the science of seeing colour and how it's impossible not to, but sadly I can't find it. However I did find this one just now which I think expresses my personal viewpoints so much more succinctly.

So the tl;dr is this https://theeverygirl.com/i-dont-see-color/ !
Great post.
 
Not sure where to post this but what is the general view around mass protests in the uk whilst we are still in the containment phase of the virus?

The government have implemented quarantine for tourists and returning Brits to supposedly stem the infection rate from outside.

But it appears any second spike will be created by our own mass gatherings.
 
Not sure where to post this but what is the general view around mass protests in the uk whilst we are still in the containment phase of the virus?

The government have implemented quarantine for tourists and returning Brits to supposedly stem the infection rate from outside.

But it appears any second spike will be created by our own mass gatherings.
I think anyone attending the protests is free to do so, but they and their family should lose the right to NHS treatment through that choice.
 
Not sure where to post this but what is the general view around mass protests in the uk whilst we are still in the containment phase of the virus?

The government have implemented quarantine for tourists and returning Brits to supposedly stem the infection rate from outside.

But it appears any second spike will be created by our own mass gatherings.

Confusing and mixed messaging from a totally inept government.
 
Not sure where to post this but what is the general view around mass protests in the uk whilst we are still in the containment phase of the virus?

The government have implemented quarantine for tourists and returning Brits to supposedly stem the infection rate from outside.

But it appears any second spike will be created by our own mass gatherings.


No problem with it, as long as they dont preach to anyone else about not breaking it.
 
A good few trouble makers at the protests. This time the police need to uphold the law and kettle them, then mounted police need to baton charge.
No country can survive without law and order

My tax is paying for all this police overtime. I want to see value.

thanks for that Don!
 
thanks for that Don!

Very droll!
The point is how long is this gonna carry on for an incident that happened across the pond?

When there are cases in the uk, why didn’t they protest then instead of jumping on this.
There is no comparison whatsoever between policing in the US and UK.
 
Very droll!
The point is how long is this gonna carry on for an incident that happened across the pond?

When there are cases in the uk, why didn’t they protest then instead of jumping on this.
There is no comparison whatsoever between policing in the US and UK.

I feel like there is a quite strong feeling that it has not been one isolated incident but many that have led to actions currently being taken.

I'm not sure if you're just playing a bit here and deliberately misunderstanding, or at the very least intentionally oversimplifying events.
 
it’s not nice to see people celebrating an incident like this.


If we're playing a game of "post something completely unrelated in response", here are some assorted toasters:

best-toasters-1582736793.jpg
 
If we're playing a game of "post something completely unrelated in response", here are some assorted toasters:

best-toasters-1582736793.jpg

I’m actually looking for a new toaster and planning to go out shopping tomorrow whilst adhering to government guidelines on social distancing.
What toaster would you recommend?
 
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