The Price of Football

[Glenda's Legs]

I’d like to think that we are all merely custodians of our football club and it is our responsibility to maintain a legacy and hand it on to the next generation. A romantic/fanciful view, perhaps. Part of that legacy (imo) is ensuring that there is always a younger generation of fans coming through. Even looking at things from a cynical point of view, as an owner it must be preferable to know there is a strong core of support that will always be there whatever the on-pitch fortunes of the club, rather than relying on the glory-hunters, tourist-fans and the corporate pound, who will come whilst things are good and then disappear. This ‘core support’ that may have been kept away by high ticket prices when things are going well may return when things are not so good and prices fall. But will they have had the opportunity to bring their kids when they were at an age to get hooked on the buzz of attending games in person? If not, where is that ongoing core support going to come from in less successful times?

Like it or not, football clubs are commercial enterprises and owners will act accordingly to maximise any commercial potential whilst it exists. This is part of being a well-run club nowadays. Ticket prices linked to demand (and geographic location - being in London I am sure has a bearing on our prices, even though not all fans are automatically earning commensurately high wages) are inevitable. But this is where I think a balance ought to come into play. Fans are not ‘customers’ in the normal sense of the word. In most case, our allegiance is set at an early age, we do not shop around for a club to support. A club should ideally have a pricing structure that isn’t excessively inflationary, and that allows parents to bring their kids on a regular basis without having to break the bank. I think THFC does this pretty well, with concessions for junior members and good value family tickets for cup games. Although I have no idea how we compare with other PL clubs. I would certainly support (as I think someone here suggested ) a lower price band between a Junior and an Adult – but recognise that someone is going to have to subsidise that. Maybe clubs could do something with the sponsors to subsidise certain categories of tickets from time to time? What I found somewhat disingenuous about the Liverpool supporters was that, from my understanding, the owners did act on fans’ requests for lower priced tickets for kids, school-groups, youths etc. but this seemed to be ignored in the protests about a small proportion of higher priced tickets.

I think there’s a balance to be struck in how tickets are priced but to reach that balance, someone is going to have to pay more, ultimately. Simple economics, really.

 

[Jurgen the German]

look at the size of our season ticket waiting list and our average attendance, the tickets are clearly underpriced, we are leaving GHod knows how much money on the table, money that could be spent on making us more competitive on the pitch

Not being funny, but do you really want WHL to be filled with prawn sandwich eating "fans" or day-trippers? What about the younger generation that have only just started work or are still at school, should they just be forced to wait until they can afford it? Don't know about you, but when I go to WHL and away games, I want the Spurs faithful to be a variety of people from all backgrounds not just the same old farts who have been going for 40 years.

I don't agree with people who clearly can't afford to go to football and jeopardise their family's future because of it, you should prioritise your family above everything, always. But at the same time, this new tv deal is insane, over 5bn over the next few years, the clubs have more than enough money to show a bit of good faith to the supporters, but they most of them don't want to. I fail to see why so many fans defend the clubs rather than their fellow supporters.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Not being funny, but do you really want WHL to be filled with prawn sandwich eating "fans" or day-trippers? What about the younger generation that have only just started work or are still at school, should they just be forced to wait until they can afford it? Don't know about you, but when I go to WHL and away games, I want the Spurs faithful to be a variety of people from all backgrounds not just the same old farts who have been going for 40 years.

I don't agree with people who clearly can't afford to go to football and jeopardise their family's future because of it, you should prioritise your family above everything, always. But at the same time, this new tv deal is insane, over 5bn over the next few years, the clubs have more than enough money to show a bit of good faith to the supporters, but they most of them don't want to. I fail to see why so many fans defend the clubs rather than their fellow supporters.

Indeed; but don't you know "you pays your money and makes your choices" - and then pop down the road to watch CL football at a cheaper price? Innit?

 

[Baleforce]

Not being funny, but do you really want WHL to be filled with prawn sandwich eating "fans" or day-trippers? What about the younger generation that have only just started work or are still at school, should they just be forced to wait until they can afford it? Don't know about you, but when I go to WHL and away games, I want the Spurs faithful to be a variety of people from all backgrounds not just the same old farts who have been going for 40 years.

I don't agree with people who clearly can't afford to go to football and jeopardise their family's future because of it, you should prioritise your family above everything, always. But at the same time, this new tv deal is insane, over 5bn over the next few years, the clubs have more than enough money to show a bit of good faith to the supporters, but they most of them don't want to. I fail to see why so many fans defend the clubs rather than their fellow supporters.

it's a source of income, one where we can leverage an advantage over other clubs

people are still going to aspire to go to WHL, it just might take them a little bit longer to get there

I have nothing against the prawn sandwich phalanx, there money is as good as anybody's

 

[Mr_B]

it's a source of income, one where we can leverage an advantage over other clubs

people are still going to aspire to go to WHL, it just might take them a little bit longer to get there

I have nothing against the prawn sandwich phalanx, there money is as good as anybody's

so a 60,000 seater stadium is the perfect solution, it'll accommodate your "tourists" and casuals as well as "real" fans.

 

[Baleforce]

so a 60,000 seater stadium is the perfect solution, it'll accommodate your "tourists" and casuals as well as "real" fans.

well yes, but if 60k tourists equals more money in the bank...

 

[jts1882]

Say the club decides to reduce ticket prices. The demand goes up and there are 100k wanting to see each game. How do we allocate tickets?

A season ticket seems a bit immoral, allowing some people to see the all the games and depriving others for all games. Would people be happy for a game by game lottery? No guaranteed tickets for the NLD, but cheaper tickets. No prioritisation for fans who value the games more, everyone gets a chance to go at a reasonable price.

 

[Jurgen the German]

it's a source of income, one where we can leverage an advantage over other clubs

people are still going to aspire to go to WHL, it just might take them a little bit longer to get there

I have nothing against the prawn sandwich phalanx, there money is as good as anybody's

Would you be unhappy if all PL clubs reduced tickets across the board and priced tickets at similar rates to the Bundesliga?

 

[Baleforce]

Would you be unhappy if all PL clubs reduced tickets across the board and priced tickets at similar rates to the Bundesliga?

I wouldn't understand it unless demand had dropped as well, it's a sellers market, go and get the money.

I don't believe people will ever stop complaining about the price of things, some will moan until they are being paid to go to games, I thought the discussion between the trust and club regarding away games was quite telling, they want cheaper tickets AND subsidised travel, it's almost like its a chore to go. Even fan's in Germany are beginning to protest against ticket prices now (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35464102)

I do not think that the exclusiveness of WHL tickets will put off any future generation of fans, I was a fan for years before my parents took me to a game, it was then the best part of a decade before I could regularly take myself, that didn't curb my enthusiasm in any way. With the exposure we get in the media I firmly believe we will have no problem attracting the next generation of loyal customers.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

Say the club decides to reduce ticket prices. The demand goes up and there are 100k wanting to see each game. How do we allocate tickets?

A season ticket seems a bit immoral, allowing some people to see the all the games and depriving others for all games. Would people be happy for a game by game lottery? No guaranteed tickets for the NLD, but cheaper tickets. No prioritisation for fans who value the games more, everyone gets a chance to go at a reasonable price.

Blimey, with 100k trying to buy a ticket, we'd be stuck in the wheel of death for days!

The concept of a season ticket might be a bit immoral on one level. But it can also be seen as a valid part of the pricing structure which allows cheaper access to games - you just have to commit upfront - once you have reached the priveledged position of being able to qualify for one, of course. (At least I assume it works out cheaper than buying individual tickets. I am not a ST holder).
As for a lottery : I remember getting a ticket to one of the 80s cup finals (either the then Milk Cup Final, or the QPR FA Cup replay) by lottery. I remember my dad and I going to a match on the day they were doing the lottery. You got given a card with a letter on it for the area you were in I think (I remember ours was S). At half time they did a draw and "S" came out, so we qualified to buy tickets. It was great, but I am sure there were fans who missed out who had been to every game that season as opposed to us who had probably just been to a handful.

Ideally, I want to see enough affordable tickets in the mix ("affordable" does not have to equal "cheap"). But what's affordable for me might be very different for someone else. I am not sure there is an easy answer to this nor a way that is fair for everyone.

 

[Grays_1890]

Say the club decides to reduce ticket prices. The demand goes up and there are 100k wanting to see each game. How do we allocate tickets?

This is what happens to clubs that offer £110 season tickets or £15 tickets, really popular and we all go "see we could do that" but reality is it creates a greater divide as more people are seen as underprivileged in not being able to attend

 

[jts1882]

The concept of a season ticket might be a bit immoral on one level. But it can also be seen as a valid part of the pricing structure which allows cheaper access to games - you just have to commit upfront - once you have reached the priveledged position of being able to qualify for one, of course. (At least I assume it works out cheaper than buying individual tickets. I am not a ST holder).

I don't think the season ticket provides savings for bulk buying in advance, although I haven't priced it. The season ticket offers guaranteed tickets and reduced hassle. For some people they are more expensive as they don't go to all matches (cf. Emirates).

Of course, this illustrates how football is not a simple matter of market economics.

 

[Baleforce]

I don't think the season ticket provides savings for bulk buying in advance, although I haven't priced it. The season ticket offers guaranteed tickets and reduced hassle. For some people they are more expensive as they don't go to all matches (cf. Emirates).

Of course, this illustrates how football is not a simple matter of market economics.

how so?

guaranteed tickets and reduced hassle have value, that's part of the thought process when determining whether to purchase the season ticket

 

[scaramanga]

Would you be unhappy if all PL clubs reduced tickets across the board and priced tickets at similar rates to the Bundesliga?

Maybe once our stadium debt is paid off but certainly not before.

Even then, that just reduces the PL's competitiveness against all the other leagues.

 

[parklane1]

like @galeforce says, if you see value in going, you can go. if not, you dont have to go. its that simple.

the fact that a certain demographic are being priced out is not a moral issue at all. there are many people who cant afford a holiday to vegas or go to michelin star restaurants. thats the way of the world unfortunately. why is there not a moral outrage that large parts of londons population cannot afford to go see a live musical? if musicals used to cost £2.50, and the owner changed his price to £100, would people be morally offended, or feel that this is a disagrace? obviously not. basically, the fact that some people now cannot afford to go to football could raise business questions, but not moral ones.

To much sense in that ( especially the bolded bit) the way some bitch about ticket prices you would think they are have a gun to their head and forced to buy them.

Still I guess they rather spend their money on kids abacus games, booze, eating out, going to shows, weekend breaks abroad, the latest in phones etc. Maybe those who do not feel the need to do just that should start bitching about the price of those things.

It seems that some are unable to understand the concept of you pays your money and takes your choice and get on the bandwagon of " ticket prices are a rip off" gonad*s.

 

[Modric THFC]

Income from Tickets keeps on going down as a percentage of total income for all the big clubs until it becomes pretty inconsequential.
Tottenham will get an extra 45m to 55m in Premier League TV money in 2016/17 with the new TV deal.
Theres the extra Champion's League we will be getting, CL money is also up with a new deal.

Consider in the light of all this it would only cost Tottenham around £15m to half the prize of season tickets.

 

[Baleforce]

It's the blind refusal to accept that the product has changed that gets me.

Yes, there may always have been a burger bar at the end of the street, but it used to be McDonalds and the burgers were only 79p, but GBK have taken over now, it's a brioche bun, it's 6oz of 100% prime beef, it's fresh salad, there's an assortment of craft lager, you're going to have to pay a bit more.

 

[Baleforce]

Income from Tickets keeps on going down as a percentage of total income for all the big clubs until it becomes pretty inconsequential.
Tottenham will get an extra 45m to 55m in Premier League TV money in 2016/17 with the new TV deal.
Theres the extra Champion's League we will be getting, CL money is also up with a new deal.

Consider in the light of all this it would only cost Tottenham around £15m to half the prize of season tickets.

if ticket sales as a % of total income continue to do that, there comes a point where tickets can be free without a hit to the club right?

so surely if other revenue continues to rise then after a while there comes a point where having a live audience could actually cost the club money, how much will each customer need to spend in the shop or concessions to balance out the cost of policing, staffing and maintaining spectator areas?

 

[Grays_1890]

It's the blind refusal to accept that the product has changed that gets me.

Yes, there may always have been a burger bar at the end of the street, but it used to be McDonalds and the burgers were only 79p, but GBK have taken over now, it's a brioche bun, it's 6oz of 100% prime beef, it's fresh salad, there's an assortment of craft lager, you're going to have to pay a bit more.

I love this analogy, total class and total sense.

Also the availability of games on tele is such now that you can argue you can stay at home for the best seat in the house

 

[Baleforce]

I love this analogy, total class and total sense.

Also the availability of games on tele is such now that you can argue you can stay at home for the best seat in the house

the like is for the bolded bit, not because of the first line by the way