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**Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

Jurgen the German said:
Yep. Talk about points totals all you like, but we haven't done enough. There's been a lot of debate about whether we are better than Arsenal or not, but the fact that we let a 7 point lead at that stage of the season evaporate so quickly isn't good enough. They've been on a great run, but they are not THAT MUCH better than us.
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It's coming...I can feel it...if we fail to make the CL on sunday, there will be a flood of critics comparing the last two seasons, context will be shoved up the swanee and I will have to log out for a few days to avoid regressing to the age of 15 again.

I just find it absolutely astonishing that anyone will look at this season, whatever happens, as anything other than progress. From the set-up we now have to the congruence to the dealing with loss of key players, it has been a season to show the likes of Gareth Bale that it's well worth sticking around. In fact, read what he's been saying recently. I was laughed at early-season for pointing out how AVB had improved him as a player, and here he is saying it in many interviews.

Whatever Arsenal do on Sunday, I will consider our season (and long-term health as a club) one of great progress.

On another note, I am sad that a team like Wigan, who try to play football, are down when the likes of Stoke continue to hang in by their grubby, bricky fingernails...
 
Jurgen the German said:
It's not good enough because we haven't done what was required. Not a hard concept to understand. Man United won the league with 80 points two seasons ago, the very next season, they finished with 89 points but finished 2nd. I bet their fans wouldn't have been happy with simply winning more points than the previous season.
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Oh yes we did. For the long-term health of this football club we did EXACTLY what was required in mine, and many others', opinions. Let's not drift back to old arguments and discussions though...the reason I picked you up on this mate is because the las part of the bold-face above could be applied to your POV too.
 
Pandy said:
When the world is more developed it will work.
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No, it won't. It really won't.

Any political system which seeks to stifle aspiration and individuality is doomed to failure because it sets itself against millions of years of evolution. Mankind (like any species) is hardwired to compete. It's in our DNA.
 
jimmyb said:
No, it won't. It really won't.

Any political system which seeks to stifle aspiration and individuality is doomed to failure because it sets itself against millions of years of evolution. Mankind (like any species) is hardwired to compete. It's in our DNA.
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We should have a communist premier league. Every team is equal, but some teams are more equal than others. ****s.
 
That loss to Norwich really stuffed us up.

Norwich 2 - 1 Spurs
Spurs 0 - 1 Wigan
Emirates Marketing Project 2 - 1 Spurs
Arsenal 5 - 2 Spurs

That's a shocking run of results.
 
Midfielder Frank Lampard has revealed that Chelsea have not practised penalties ahead of Wednesday night's Europa League final against Benfica in Amsterdam.

Full story: Daily Mirror
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No, because you get so fudging many anyway, you're all well versed in how to bloody take them.

fudging brick-club arrogant tossers
 
I skimmed through the last few pages, when did we stop discussing whether Spurs have improved from last seasons results and start debating about grammar and Communism? In the Other Games Thread??

Only on GG \o/
 
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Mulletperm said:
That loss to Norwich really stuffed us up.

Norwich 2 - 1 Spurs
Spurs 0 - 1 Wigan
Emirates Marketing Project 2 - 1 Spurs
Arsenal 5 - 2 Spurs

That's a shocking run of results.
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That loss to Norwich was in League Cup. But we did drew both matches against Norwich in the league. That was 4 valuable points lost. We lost another 5 valuable points to Wigan.

Out of the 8 matches we lost in the league, I can accept the loses to all the big teams : Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Arsenal, ManCity, Chelsea, Everton and Liverpool. The only unacceptable loses are the defeats to Wigan and Fulham at home. There is simply no excuse for that ! Out of the 9 draws, the home draws to WBA, Norwich and Stoke and the away draws to QPR have affected us badly as well.

Ofcourse, if we had won all those matches we would be fighting for league title with ManU now.
 
May I remind all of you of the thread title we are posting in?

Lets keep it on topic please...............other teams. Not how WE failed again.
 
thfcsteff said:
It's coming...I can feel it...if we fail to make the CL on sunday, there will be a flood of critics comparing the last two seasons, context will be shoved up the swanee and I will have to log out for a few days to avoid regressing to the age of 15 again.

I just find it absolutely astonishing that anyone will look at this season, whatever happens, as anything other than progress. From the set-up we now have to the congruence to the dealing with loss of key players, it has been a season to show the likes of Gareth Bale that it's well worth sticking around. In fact, read what he's been saying recently. I was laughed at early-season for pointing out how AVB had improved him as a player, and here he is saying it in many interviews.

Whatever Arsenal do on Sunday, I will consider our season (and long-term health as a club) one of great progress.

On another note, I am sad that a team like Wigan, who try to play football, are down when the likes of Stoke continue to hang in by their grubby, bricky fingernails...
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its called lip service. You, me and everyone are definately in trouble if we take what footballers say as gospel.

players say that about all their coaches when things go right...and naturally he'll say that about the guy that has moved him full time into a forward position that he likes
 
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BrainOfLevy said:
I really don't get why people feel the need to criticise the club, I'm totally in the camp of an improved points total means improvement, and that we would be very unlucky that it wouldn't mean CL qualification.

What do people expect? Do you think we should be on 75? 80? Should we be challenging for second? The title? After losing 3 key players from last year? After employing a new manager and getting to grips with his different match preparation?

Because that is what you're saying. When you moan about the Fulham or Wigan result, you're basically saying we should be on almost 80 points. Of course we are better than them. Of course normally we should win. But it's football! brick happens. It's like people needing to moan about a manager's transfer record, like 'he's not that good in the transfer market, he signed X and X, see!' as if it proves some magical point! Of course not every player is going to be success, again, it's football, brick happens. You need to accept that and look at the bigger picture otherwise the criticism is just pointless. Of course Levy and AVB don't make every single decision perfectly, because they aren't perfect alien beings. They are human. So pointing out the small mistakes with such a sense of entitlement is just ridiculous when it isn't considered against the overall progress of the club.

We are on course for a record points total. If we were to have beaten Fulham, Wigan, Norwich and West Brom at home, we'd be second. Is that what people want? You are actually saying you expect to be above 3 clubs that have far bigger turnover than us. How can you possibly say that?

I was reading Norwich forums earlier and I couldn't believe it, there is a swell of opinion that Hughton may not be doing a very good job. He's kept that Norwich squad in the league for a second season for goodness sake! They'll point out 'yeah his negative style blah blah blah' as if it means anything. As if he is being compared to the perfect GHod-Manager that obviously exists. It's pointless!
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lovely bit of a post there. i agree with that...but i think its more a reaction to the double standards duie to what happened last year compared to now , either that or people are being true to themselves and just view not being in top 4 as a failure

either way it has to be tough on a club that doesnt have the financial power of others.
 
On Dortmund beating Bayern to become German Champions. We did that last year. Chelsea finished 6th, we finished 4th, Saudi Sportswashing Machine finished 5th. If Man United hadn't lost against Chelsea at OT, we would have a chance of doing the double as Dortmund did.

------

On using points to evaluate a season:

If we won the league with 50 points then won the league with 100 points, would the performance of the team in both seasons be the same or would the performance in the 2nd season be better?

If we won the league with 50 points then came 2nd with 99 points, which season's performance would be better?

----------

On using other teams to evaluate our season: We have beaten Saudi Sportswashing Machine by far more points than we did last season and by far more places in the table too.

We are much closer to Emirates Marketing Project in terms of points and are currently in the same relative league position to them as we were last season (-3), we have a chance to finish 2 places behind them this season.

We are pretty much in the same position we were in relative to Arsenal as last season, there's a chance we might finish above them in the table.


------------

On "we shouldn't be relying on other teams to drop points":

Man United win vs everyone currently 6th to 20th.
Emirates Marketing Project win vs everyone currently 6th to 20th.
Chelsea ""
Arsenal ""

If the above 4 clubs play each other and the home team always wins, they'll all have far more points than it usually takes to win the league. The thing with a league is all teams rely on other teams to drop points. The PL is not such a weak league that two clubs win every game aside from their head to head matches and those matches decide the title. To some extent we're always going to be relying on others.

--------------

On "we've fudged ourselves up": We lost Modric, VDV and King, but still are on course for our highest PL points total. We actually played in Europe this year (our first team)... We have progressed. We can't expect to make the CL every year. We are still in with a chance with one match to go. That's all we could have realistically asked for at the start of the season. To be honest, it would have been optimistic to even ask for that.


Listening to some people sounds like listening to a Villa fan, a Sunderland fan or a Saudi Sportswashing Machine fan that expects to get CL football. They were all in a relegation battle this year, so this may sound like a bad example... But apparently turnover, squad depth, wage sizes and so on don't matter.


------------

The CL prize money is bigger this year and the PL money is bigger next year, so although not being in the CL this year sucks, we stand a lot to gain next year as the increased PL money means more as a percentage to us than it does to Chelsea, City and United.... The downside being if Arsenal make the CL this year, they might not have to make 20m in player sales to pay for the stadium as they usually do and will actually be in a strong position to spend money. But from our point of view, the PL money will be very welcome... (Obviously Everton will greatly benefit from that too as will other teams below us.)


-----------------

On comparing results this season with results last season:

Arsenal drew 0-0 with Saudi Sportswashing Machine at the Wongarina or whatever it was called last season. Does this comfort you?



------------------

TLDR: Chelsea spent 100m and Arsenal finally replaced Fabregas... They've both strengthened more than we have, we are somehow getting better results than we did last season despite losing 3 of our 4 best players. If you want to look at our points, our results, etc... We have progressed. If you want to look at everything relative to the other clubs, they've progressed more than we have in the league... In the CL Arsenal did the same as they always do and Chelsea didn't even make it past the group stage.
 
Spur of the moment said:
You chose to highlight matches we lost, in isolation, as though that was the only reason we failed to gain fourth (though we're not quite dead yet).


My point is it is facile to isolate particular games that went against us during the season without also acknowledging there were others when things went very much our way, games where the opposition could equally argue they could have prevented our win by cutting out an error.

At the end of the day we lost those games because we were not good enough, end of.
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I CHOSE to answer a post that referred specifically to moments in games that can be said to have COST us, as opposed to ones that might have BENEFITTED us. In that context, I chose to focus on the game at Goodison. It's not facile, it's called sticking to the point. My apologies for that; I know it's not really the done thing around here, but if you are a would-be CL qualifier, and you finish up missing out by the narrowest of margins, then I suspect the moment in which you contrive to throw away all three points, having entered injury time at the end of a game with a 1-0 lead is always going to be reflected upon as one that has COST you.

But no, we're not finished yet, so let the chips fall where they may Sunday. COYS.
 
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Fuego said:
On Dortmund beating Bayern to become German Champions. We did that last year. Chelsea finished 6th, we finished 4th, Saudi Sportswashing Machine finished 5th. If Man United hadn't lost against Chelsea at OT, we would have a chance of doing the double as Dortmund did.

------

On using points to evaluate a season:

If we won the league with 50 points then won the league with 100 points, would the performance of the team in both seasons be the same or would the performance in the 2nd season be better?

If we won the league with 50 points then came 2nd with 99 points, which season's performance would be better?

----------

On using other teams to evaluate our season: We have beaten Saudi Sportswashing Machine by far more points than we did last season and by far more places in the table too.

We are much closer to Emirates Marketing Project in terms of points and are currently in the same relative league position to them as we were last season (-3), we have a chance to finish 2 places behind them this season.

We are pretty much in the same position we were in relative to Arsenal as last season, there's a chance we might finish above them in the table.


------------

On "we shouldn't be relying on other teams to drop points":

Man United win vs everyone currently 6th to 20th.
Emirates Marketing Project win vs everyone currently 6th to 20th.
Chelsea ""
Arsenal ""

If the above 4 clubs play each other and the home team always wins, they'll all have far more points than it usually takes to win the league. The thing with a league is all teams rely on other teams to drop points. The PL is not such a weak league that two clubs win every game aside from their head to head matches and those matches decide the title. To some extent we're always going to be relying on others.

--------------

On "we've fudged ourselves up": We lost Modric, VDV and King, but still are on course for our highest PL points total. We actually played in Europe this year (our first team)... We have progressed. We can't expect to make the CL every year. We are still in with a chance with one match to go. That's all we could have realistically asked for at the start of the season. To be honest, it would have been optimistic to even ask for that.


Listening to some people sounds like listening to a Villa fan, a Sunderland fan or a Saudi Sportswashing Machine fan that expects to get CL football. They were all in a relegation battle this year, so this may sound like a bad example... But apparently turnover, squad depth, wage sizes and so on don't matter.


------------

The CL prize money is bigger this year and the PL money is bigger next year, so although not being in the CL this year sucks, we stand a lot to gain next year as the increased PL money means more as a percentage to us than it does to Chelsea, City and United.... The downside being if Arsenal make the CL this year, they might not have to make 20m in player sales to pay for the stadium as they usually do and will actually be in a strong position to spend money. But from our point of view, the PL money will be very welcome... (Obviously Everton will greatly benefit from that too as will other teams below us.)


-----------------

On comparing results this season with results last season:

Arsenal drew 0-0 with Saudi Sportswashing Machine at the Wongarina or whatever it was called last season. Does this comfort you?



------------------

TLDR: Chelsea spent 100m and Arsenal finally replaced Fabregas... They've both strengthened more than we have, we are somehow getting better results than we did last season despite losing 3 of our 4 best players. If you want to look at our points, our results, etc... We have progressed. If you want to look at everything relative to the other clubs, they've progressed more than we have in the league... In the CL Arsenal did the same as they always do and Chelsea didn't even make it past the group stage.
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Excellent post. Its all about keeping things in context.
 
On using points to evaluate a season, I think a good point is to show why Pellegrini is looked upon favourably for his time at Real. He got 96 points for them which was some kind of record, and in any other season that would have won them the league, but they came up against a Barca under Pep at the peak of their powers.

Of course Real fans wouldn't be happy that they didn't win the league, a fan at the club of that size never will be. But if you improve to such an extent under a coach that you gain a record points total, and still don't win the league, I think you just have to hold your hands up and say, 'you know what, they were superb, they deserve it'.

It's not really a surprise that Arsenal and Chelsea can improve more than we do. We operate (I think) on a negative net transfer spend this season, where as they will have spent more. They have more revenue and we are trying to build a stadium. So taking all that into account, to be potentially in with a chance of finishing above Arsenal on the last day, we are doing extremely well.
 
Liverpool away for me. Cactus head's back pass and the resulting loss meant three away points dropped, but also much more. It affected our mojo. Havent really got it back since. That my friends was the turning point. Had we won, I think we would have been in third spot now.
 
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Gilzeantoscore said:
Liverpool away for me. Cactus head's back pass and the resulting loss meant three away points dropped, but also much more. It affected our mojo. Havent really got it back since. That my friends was the turning point. Had we won, I think we would have been in third spot now.
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Totally agree. It didnt feel like it at the time but we were on a fantastic run. As you say, we never reached that peak again.

That game also has a lot of similarities with the defeat at City last season. Same period of the season. Big away game, lost 3-2 when we were the best team, stupid mistakes. Our run after that wasnt abysmal like last season though.
 
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