**Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

[braineclipse]

The question was about games that have cost us. Thumping the self-destruct button while leading at Anfield is another. Finishing up on the end of a 5-2 reverse at the Effeminates, after we'd led 2-0. Failing to hold on to a 0-0 at home to Fulham. How would those 10 points do us now?

Apart from perhaps the top 4-5 teams in Europe every team will have games like that to bring up at the end of the season. Over 38 games you will almost by necessity end up with some poor results, some unfortunate slip ups at the end of games and so on.

Of course 10 points would have done us well, once again as it would for the majority of teams in just about every league in the world.

 

[Jurgen the German]

League games only since Xmas, IIRC

Late goals scored: United(h),Norwich(a),West Ham(a),Everton(h),Wigan(a),City(h),Soton(h),Chelsea (a),Stoke(a)

Conceded: Reading (h)? Liverpool(a)

Impressive,

Pretty sure we conceeded early against Reading.

Good record though as you say.

 

[Kingdawson]

Right. But all this rubbish about having not 'bettered' last season will be revealed to be as lacking in context and supportive detail as it is. In my opinion. We should probably save this potential debate for post-Sunday (a) because we're off-topic and (b) because I rather deliriously still believe we have great hope of finishing 4th!!!!

How is is "rubbish" btw? do you really think a better points total but finishing outside the top 4 is better than a 4th place finish?

Our home performances this season have generally been rather brick so i wouldn't be at all surprised if Saudi Sportswashing Machine somehow sneak a draw and we draw too. That's how i see things ending (or Gooners win by a landslide).

 

[Jurgen the German]

It will be lost because we finished 4th last season and 5th this season. Your clutching at straws if you really think finishing with higher points but finishing in a lower league position is bettering the previous season.

I agree with KD. How many points won the title last season? You can bet your life United fans wouldn't have cared about getting a higher points total than the previous season, they'd care about not winning the league.

 

[Spursalot]

It will be lost because we finished 4th last season and 5th this season. Your clutching at straws if you really think finishing with higher points but finishing in a lower league position is bettering the previous season.

Not really clutching at straws.


We will have performed better this season than we did last. Us. Our performances. Our points total is higher. Perfectly reasonable to say we have bettered our previous season.


When looked at in context though you would have to say that Chelsea have improved far more than us. For some strange bizzare reason. Whilst Arsenal have stayed pretty much stationary.

 

[billyiddo]

Well yes, if people were of the opinion that we would have to at least match last seasons 4th placed finish for this to be considered a successful season, then that makes sense.

Personally speaking i think it's been a good season regardless but i do also think we have ourselves to blame for not securing 4th.

we could have picked up more points in some games but then we've evened that out by excelling away from home - swings and roundabouts - blame us for losing points at home to Wigan or marvel that we managed to beat Utd away? how do you choose which side of the fence to sit - facts are we are on course to surpass what we amassed last season points wise and most likely finish with the same prize (Europa League football).

i agree that we could have done better, but then so could everyone team in the league and we could also have done a lot worse

 

[paxtonwolf]

The question was about games that have cost us. Thumping the self-destruct button while leading at Anfield is another. Finishing up on the end of a 5-2 reverse at the Effeminates, after we'd led 2-0. Failing to hold on to a 0-0 at home to Fulham. How would those 10 points do us now?

Not this season 1-0 up 4-1 down then 4-2 and nearly came back.

But to be fair, all teams lose a few games/drop pts like we have done. Cheslea home to QPR 0-1, lose a 2-goal lead at Reading, it happens. This season we did it just one more time than we could have afforded to

 

[Spur of the moment]

Apart from perhaps the top 4-5 teams in Europe every team will have games like that to bring up at the end of the season. Over 38 games you will almost by necessity end up with some poor results, some unfortunate slip ups at the end of games and so on.

Of course 10 points would have done us well, once again as it would for the majority of teams in just about every league in the world.

Well United conceded very late against us for a start, although they still came away with a point. Anyone know of stats showing how many points each team has dropped through conceding late goals this season?

 

[Jurgen the German]

The question was about games that have cost us. Thumping the self-destruct button while leading at Anfield is another. Finishing up on the end of a 5-2 reverse at the Effeminates, after we'd led 2-0. Failing to hold on to a 0-0 at home to Fulham. How would those 10 points do us now?

That is something we really do have to sort out. Some of our performances at their place over the years have been pathetic. They rarely play that bad at the lane.

 

[Naughton16]

How is is "rubbish" btw? do you really think a better points total but finishing outside the top 4 is better than a 4th place finish?

Our home performances this season have generally been rather brick so i wouldn't be at all surprised if Saudi Sportswashing Machine somehow sneak a draw and we draw too. That's how i see things ending (or Gooners win by a landslide).

Redknapp had taken us as far as he could. In AVBs first season he could achieve our highest ever points total after a very shaky start adapting to a completely new system. Is that not cause for even a little optimism?

Also it was sways unlikely Chelsea would have another howler in the league after spending £100m.

 

[billyiddo]

I agree with KD. How many points won the title last season? You can bet your life United fans wouldn't have cared about getting a higher points total than the previous season, they'd care about not winning the league.

hold on, one minute you say you want people to focus on Spurs and only Spurs - the next you say that even though we improved on last seasons points it isn't good enough because other teams had better seasons than they did last season.

 

[mudshark]

Why do you insist on seeing only one side of the coin?

I answered the question posed. It only referred to one side of the coin.

 

[skyfarer]

I think we have gotten better results-wise because of greater consistency, but not performance-wise or team-wise (this is suggested by our relatively poor GD, which reflects a smaller 'quality' advantage over our opponents). The problem is that our rivals have improved even more than we've improved, which is what I've predicted will happen every year because of the increasing financial gap between five teams (City, Chelsea, United, Arse, Liverpool) and the rest. Just look at how tight the relegation scrap was this year!

Unfortunately I don't think the TV money will help much, unless we are just substantially better in the transfer market than everyone else and can squeeze out more from every pound.

 

[Jurgen the German]

How is is "rubbish" btw? do you really think a better points total but finishing outside the top 4 is better than a 4th place finish?

Our home performances this season have generally been rather brick so i wouldn't be at all surprised if Saudi Sportswashing Machine somehow sneak a draw and we draw too. That's how i see things ending (or Gooners win by a landslide).

Yep. Talk about points totals all you like, but we haven't done enough. There's been a lot of debate about whether we are better than Arsenal or not, but the fact that we let a 7 point lead at that stage of the season evaporate so quickly isn't good enough. They've been on a great run, but they are not THAT MUCH better than us.

 

[paxtonwolf]

Pretty sure we conceeded early against Reading.

Good record though as you say.

Correct we did now I have had a think, hence the ? first few mins wasnt it. Just Liverpool then, even more impressive, especially if you throw in late goals in both Lyon games and Basle (a)

 

[braineclipse]

Depends on how you look at things. Of course no one would prefer finishing lower in the table, but with a higher points total, at least I hope so, sounds insane.

When the last game finishes and we're either celebrating 4th or disappointed with 5th that's obviously going to be a purely emotional response. We want 4th, we're hoping for 4th, 4th and 5th are the only possible outcomes come the last day so either we get what we want or we don't. The emotions that follow will be simple and basic and purely results oriented. Did we get what we wanted? No, or yes. Simple.

If the question isn't "am I happy, or am I sad?", but rather "how do I think the team did" then I think a points total is relevant. Showing that we potentially end up being unlucky by being the first team in 20 years of PL history to finish outside the top 4 with 70 points or more I think is relevant to that judgement. Showing that we potentially broke our points total record in PL history is also relevant. This is a slightly more rationally based evaluation of the season.

We all love football for the emotions it can produce (among other things), and we will all feel that delicious satisfaction or rotten disappointment at the end of the game and probably for days, if not weeks or months after the final game. But, if the question is "how did the team do?" I think it's unfair to base judgment only on the emotional response from the final table position.

 

[Baleforce]

i'm not sure Chelsea and Arsenal have improved from last year at all, they both lost their talismanic forward don't forget, we've all picked up more points because there seems to be about 14 brick teams in the league this season

yes they have both put together impressive runs recently but I expect if you look at Everton and our own matching fixtures you'd get a very similar points tally

 

[Jurgen the German]

hold on, one minute you say you want people to focus on Spurs and only Spurs - the next you say that even though we improved on last seasons points it isn't good enough because other teams had better seasons than they did last season.

It's not good enough because we haven't done what was required. Not a hard concept to understand. Man United won the league with 80 points two seasons ago, the very next season, they finished with 89 points but finished 2nd. I bet their fans wouldn't have been happy with simply winning more points than the previous season.

 

[Kingdawson]

Not really clutching at straws.


We will have performed better this season than we did last. Us. Our performances. Our points total is higher. Perfectly reasonable to say we have bettered our previous season.


When looked at in context though you would have to say that Chelsea have improved far more than us. For some strange bizzare reason. Whilst Arsenal have stayed pretty much stationary.

I don't think any other set of fans from any other team would see a higher points total as "bettering" last season if they finished a position lower than the previous season. Whatever floats your boat though.

 

[Spursalot]

I don't think any other set of fans from any other team would see a higher points total as "bettering" last season if they finished a position lower than the previous season. Whatever floats your boat though.

My boat is floated by Spurs improving.


As far as i am aware, 72 would be higher than 69.