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Coronavirus

Gilzeantoscore said:
Err. no it isn't. At least not to the extent that it is in Britain. Some nations have competent governments. Some nations have governments who are not made of individuals who believe they they are above community expectations.
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What's wrong with considering oneself above the expectations of normal people?
 
Emily Maitlis replaced for Newsnight episode after Cummings remarks
Katie Razzall stepped in after BBC reprimanded host over ‘breach of impartiality rules’

So much of the mainstream media have been total scum from the very start of this pandemic
 
Glenda's Legs said:
Just heard on R4 that currently SSP only kicks in once a positive test has been returned. So either a very quick turnaround in testing and results is needed, or a tweak to the SSP rules. Matt Hanrooster is doing the rounds this morning so I assume this will be covered.
SSP vs a full week's wage might be a critical factor for some.
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That's interesting - they've just been talking on bbc news a few minutes ago as if required self-isolation is covered by SSP, which is in line with my memory/understanding of the situation immediately prior to lockdown.

This clearly could present a financial issue for some. The flip side is, extending cover upwards, perhaps to furlough level protection could potentially incentivise abuse of the system. I'm honestly not sure what the answer is.
 
Parklaner81 said:
That's interesting - they've just been talking on bbc news a few minutes ago as if required self-isolation is covered by SSP, which is in line with my memory/understanding of the situation immediately prior to lockdown.

This clearly could present a financial issue for some. The flip side is, extending cover upwards, perhaps to furlough level protection could potentially incentivise abuse of the system. I'm honestly not sure what the answer is.
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It certainly was, unless they've changed the rules it still is.

Nobody will voluntarily take that though, it's not much at all .
 
The rage for Cummings is incredible, having caught up on this thread I believe there's almost as many pages talking about him as there was Poch being sacked.

Based on what I've read driving there is technically within the guidelines although it's I guess what one would say isn't in the spirit of them and probably bends them slightly but it does seem to give a slight unclarified get out for childcare. I'm fairly sure in a court of law based on how it's worded he'd be found not guilty. The other drive to check his eyesight is more dodgy and I'd say against the rules but is no different to what a lot of people have been doing in popping out for a drive and walk somewhere quiet.

I would say the issue is how it's been communicated, Johnson could have apologised and said some people might not agree with his actions and he's made a mistake etc etc but on the balance I believe he acted in good faith bla bla and things could move on. Problem Johnson has is he isn't really an emphathetic leader.

I think as a parent myself and faced with a similar situation I can't say I wouldn't do a drive like that myself so it's hard to be too critical on it, a lot of it is because people hate him anyway and had already lined up to hang him regardless of reasons - we see this time and time again.
 
P.D. said:
I think as a parent myself and faced with a similar situation I can't say I wouldn't do a drive like that myself so it's hard to be too critical on it, a lot of it is because people hate him anyway and had already lined up to hang him regardless of reasons - we see this time and time again.
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That’s it said better than I could ever.

End of the day everyone everyone is wired differently and everyone’s life is different so even though he is a government adviser I don’t know his life or pressures of life and family anymore than I know anyone on here so why would I pretend to know enough to judge?
 
Grays_1890 said:
Hahaha and people say politicians make crap up

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-52830437
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It’s that the BBC thought her remarks breached their impartiality guidelines that worries me.

The BBC’s misguided insistence on balance for everything is a contributing factor to the brickshow in this country over the last decade.

Time to wheel this quote out again.

"If someone says it's raining & another person says it's dry. It's not your job to quote them both. Your job is to look out the fudging window and find out which is true."
 
galeforce said:
It’s that the BBC thought her remarks breached their impartiality guidelines that worries me.

The BBC’s misguided insistence on balance for everything is a contributing factor to the brickshow in this country over the last decade.

Time to wheel this quote out again.

"If someone says it's raining & another person says it's dry. It's not your job to quote them both. Your job is to look out the fudging window and find out which is true."
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Haven't you ever looked out of your window and been uncertain as to whether it's actually raining or not?

I know I have.
 
galeforce said:
there is a difference between impartiality and false balance, the latter is dangerous
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Interesting one.

There is a philosophical approach that says there is no such thing as impartiality. The only form of objectivity (in history, which news is right) is to understand each author's bias. Then you can be objective.

I hear what you are saying with the BBC. They put themselves in a position where for example, the journalist knows something is wrong or does not add up, but they have to present the flip side and look impartial. Which is a muddle. But they have to do it. They have let both sides speak, and they have to put their opinion to one side. It is a core tenant of reputable news reporting. There are opinion sections of newspapers etc.

Polls suggest the majority of the nation don't believe Cummings' story, so Matlis' accusation is not far wide of the mark. What is funny is that the people up in arms are usually anti-political correctness. Here they are getting their knickers in a twist about an organisation self-regulating.
 
thfcsteff said:
I have great sympathy for the situation he found himself in.
I despise what I know of him and his utterly disproportionate role in policy making given he is an UNELECTED advisor/"official", plus his part in the architecture of a lavish lying culture as executed by Boris.

I see the two as different entities and should be judged as such. You cannot hate someone's actions just because you hate them in this scenario. You have to weigh everything out and scale it down to very simple facts.

Did the 30 mile drive break any rules? On the edge of the line I see, probably not, He was 15 days into isolation, he wanted his wife there because he wanted to be sure he could make it, his kid was with them most likely because alternatives were not necessary. They distanced and bothered no-one.
Is it feasible that he would panic and make the 270 mile drive due to worries over his (autistic?) son? Absolutely. A legitimate for given everything, a very human one too ("human" not being a trait he has publicly displayed much, but again, that is irrelevant).
Is it feasible he drove non-stop to his father's estate, thus impacting no-one directly? Absolutely, and I actually believe him.
Was his behavior selfish and oblivious? I believe so. Yet I am not prepared to say, with any degree of honesty, that had I been in that exact position I would not have done the same.

Did he break a rule in doing so? Technically yes. He did. He should, by the letter of the rules in place, have immediately sheltered. Concerns for children are a factor, but technically, there wasn't one at that point. I would speculate that a less oblivious person might've assumed that the possibility of covid19 was large in previous weeks given Johnson's reckless behavior. I would speculate that he could've got somebody in place to help with his kid at that point, doubtless like many might've had to do.

And here's the kicker, the BIG difference between Cummins and me, you, the general public. He is a major policy maker/influencer who is in a position of enormous importance and leadership. Again, I am keeping my own personal views about this off the table...the fact remains that in his current role, he needs to be a leader who holds himself to the highest standards. He cannot have it both ways. He cannot be involved in policy-making and running the country and then discharge the extra responsibility which comes with it.

So breaking it down, in my view, he has been felled by TKO in the 9th. His arrogance/obliviousness/attitude/whatever has not aided his case or cause, but again, being a clam does not mean someone is always technically wrong. In this case, I'd say sadly that both apply.

If he cared about the country and the party who employs him, he would step down. He clearly doesn't. And Boris the Clown clearly knows that his PT Barnum Ringmaster as imagined in a cheap PG Wodehouse book act is NOT going to cut it when proper governance is needed.

As a side note, I wonder if Cummins is a bit autistic? His press conference suggested someone who genuinely does not seem to understand why people are tinkled off.
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I'd agree with a lot of that but your hate of him appears to have caught up with you in the conclusion?......and appears to belie your second sentence

A fathers strongest instinct is to protect/look after his children and his wife at all costs. Whether he's a chief policy maker for the gov or centre forward for Real Madrid. We're all the same on that level....it's primal.

To be challenged about that instinctive behaviour (and not always in a pleasant way).....will quite easily lead to a 'f.uck you' attitude

Should he act differently because of his position, probably yes......but he, you, me wont because of the above.

Then you're kicker........i thought it was going to read like this......

And here's the kicker, the BIG difference between Cummins and me, you, the general public. He is a major policy maker/influencer who is in a position of enormous importance and leadership. Again, I am keeping my own personal views about this off the table...the fact remains that in his current role, he needs to be a leader who cannot, literally, be left holding the baby. To be involved in policy-making and running the country, surely if the main carer for your (autistic) son is bed ridden for 14 days, you can not step into that 24 hour role the with workload, responsibility and importance that your current job carries. In a fluid escalating situation he needs to think quickly and find a solution?

Thats why i'd let this one pass. Of course if more came to light and it starts unravelling then i can and will reassess. The castle bit is a bit gonad*y, only because of the eyesight nonsense. But If all three of them have been laid up with covid for 2 weeks and then all feel a load better, then natrually the idea of a run out to a nice outdoor place is normal. (possibly against the rules, but normal thinking).

Thats why i said the 'blog thing' was more interesting as it obviously calculated and pre-meditated but of course slightly stupid having no awareness of digital footprints
 
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You know I think people would have cut Cummings some slack if they had just shown some humility and contrition. An apology. Pay a fine. Explain why it happened and the nation would have moved on.

But if you are on the front line, say a doctor seeing people die daily, or if you have not seen loved ones etc. because you have isolated, it really rubs people up the wrong way.

In short, it is the handling of the indiscretion by Boris and Cummings which is concerning. The multiple messages it sends to people are shambolic.
 
SpurMeUp said:
You know I think people would have cut Cummings some slack if they had just shown some humility and contrition. An apology. Pay a fine. Explain why it happened and the nation would have moved on.
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Haha yeh course, a nation full of people setting expectations they rarely follow themselves.

People just want a reason to sharpen their knives and stick them in, and not only once.
 
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