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Ghosts

ShelfLife

ShelfLife

Clive Wilson
Do they exist? When it comes to the supernatural, I'm something of sceptic to put it conservatively. A Long-standing friend of mine, who for the record I've always known to be a staunch advocate of science and reason, related an incident which apparently occurred to him a few weeks back. In short, he's absolutely convinced he experienced an encounter with something 'other worldly.'

I'm not really sure what to make of it all, other than knowing that things simply could not have occurred as he described them. But equally, he's not the type to make **** up and he was evidently aware of how ridiculous it all sounded, yet was adamant it's true. I tried to suggest that the brain, even in those who are otherwise of sound mind, is capable of having us imagine all sorts of things in the right conditions, but he was having none of it.

Anyway, it piqued my curiosity. Where do others stand on the possibility ghosts, or spirits or whatever? Has any one on here ever had any odd experiences they care to share?
 
[video=youtube;HhGuXCuDb1U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGuXCuDb1U[/video]

Because throughout history
Every mystery
EVER solved has turned out to be
NOT magic.
 
Indeed. Mediums. Pyschics. Religous healers. Magicians To a man, all shown to either be frauds and hucksters, or skilled showmen. No disagreement there.
 
No, they don't exist at all. Everything you see in the world is not exactly how it truly is, it's just an image created by your brain in order to understand the world. For example, colour and smells do not exist, they created by your brain. Different materials absorb different wavelengths of light and colour is the brain's way of expressing this. Smells have just developed to for the brain to help you recognize what is good and bad to eat. Sh1t doesn't smell bad, we just interpret it as bad as we've learnt it's not good to eat.

Whatever your friend saw there is a rational explanation for it.
 
Bonsaiboy said:
No, they don't exist at all. Everything you see in the world is not exactly how it truly is, it's just an image created by your brain in order to understand the world. For example, colour and smells do not exist, they created by your brain. Different materials absorb different wavelengths of light and colour is the brain's way of expressing this. Smells have just developed to for the brain to help you recognize what is good and bad to eat. Sh1t doesn't smell bad, we just interpret it as bad as we've learnt it's not good to eat.

Whatever your friend saw there is a rational explanation for it.
Click to expand...

Wrong. I saw this video science experiment the other day with two women and a drinking receptacle.
 
ShelfLife said:
Indeed. Mediums. Pyschics. Religous healers. Magicians To a man, all shown to either be frauds and hucksters, or skilled showmen. No disagreement there.
Click to expand...

I was diagnosed with coeliac disease, which is incurable. I went to a (very eccentric) kinesiologist. Now I don't have coeliac disease.

But I don't believe in ghosts...
 
Bonsaiboy said:
No, they don't exist at all. Everything you see in the world is not exactly how it truly is, it's just an image created by your brain in order to understand the world. For example, colour and smells do not exist, they created by your brain. Different materials absorb different wavelengths of light and colour is the brain's way of expressing this. Smells have just developed to for the brain to help you recognize what is good and bad to eat. Sh1t doesn't smell bad, we just interpret it as bad as we've learnt it's not good to eat.

Whatever your friend saw there is a rational explanation for it.
Click to expand...

So, going by that logic, which I agree with, by the way - all the concepts you're mentioning here (even rationality itself) are also man made concepts. So, how can you say that a man made concept like "ghost" can exist any less than another man made concept, like "rationality" or "interpretation", if everything we experience are just images in our brains?

I don't know about ghosts. I've experienced some strange things myself, and heard stories, but have never really been convinced either way. I think it sounds somewhat far fetched that someone supposedly dead can come back (or stay around) and do stuff in the physical world, but I'm not going to say that it can't happen.

Now, tell us your friend's story, please. :)
 
milo said:
[video=youtube;HhGuXCuDb1U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGuXCuDb1U[/video]

Because throughout history
Every mystery
EVER solved has turned out to be
NOT magic.
Click to expand...

It's the mysteries that haven't been solved which are concerning.

And, yes, I know for sure that there is more out there than mere limited human science and logic would appear to reveal.
 
Raoul Duke said:
I was diagnosed with coeliac disease, which is incurable. I went to a (very eccentric) kinesiologist. Now I don't have coeliac disease.

But I don't believe in ghosts...
Click to expand...

Could you elaborate please mate? What's a kinesiologist and what did he do exactly when you saw him?
 
Daisuk said:
So, going by that logic, which I agree with, by the way - all the concepts you're mentioning here (even rationality itself) are also man made concepts. So, how can you say that a man made concept like "ghost" can exist any less than another man made concept, like "rationality" or "interpretation", if everything we experience are just images in our brains?

I don't know about ghosts. I've experienced some strange things myself, and heard stories, but have never really been convinced either way. I think it sounds somewhat far fetched that someone supposedly dead can come back (or stay around) and do stuff in the physical world, but I'm not going to say that it can't happen.

Now, tell us your friend's story, please. :)
Click to expand...

He went out to Goa in India a few weeks back with a some friends. Whilst out there, he decided to go stay with his Indian uncle for a couple of days. His Uncle lives in one of the more rural areas out there, the name of which escapes me.

Anyway, as he was getting ready for bed on his second night at his uncle's, he tells me that he felt a sudden force grip his neck, as if strangling him, before suddenly letting go. He reckons this occurred four or five times in quick succession, before he had any time to react or understand what was happening. He then felt himself being dragged by both arms forcefully across the room, and pushed onto the floor from behind. At this point, he told me that he was so terrified and confused that he didn't dare move for what seemed like an hour, but was probably about five or ten minutes - just laid there on his stomach, in the position he had been 'pushed'. Eventually he worked up the courage to move, but when he did so he was immediately pushed back down and heard a 'laugh'. At this point he bolted screaming into his cousin's (uncle's son) room.

Yeah, believe me, i know how it sounds. I'm convinced he had some sort of a manic episode or visceral nightmare, but he's adamant he was wide awake throughout.

Appatently, his uncle and nephew later told him that the unseen japester was a fairly regular visitor, and that they even had a name for him (Monty!).

In my mind, there has to be a clear, logical explanation here, but he gets very annoyed with me any time i suggest this to be the case. So much so that he now refuses to discuss it with me, the moody sod.
 
ShelfLife said:
He went out to Goa in India a few weeks back with a some friends. Whilst out there, he decided to go stay with his Indian uncle for a couple of days. His Uncle lives in one of the more rural areas out there, the name of which escapes me.

Anyway, as he was getting ready for bed on his second night at his uncle's, he tells me that he felt a sudden force grip his neck, as if strangling him, before suddenly letting go. He reckons this occurred four or five times in quick succession, before he had any time to react or understand what was happening. He then felt himself being dragged by both arms forcefully across the room, and pushed onto the floor from behind. At this point, he told me that he was so terrified and confused that he didn't dare move for what seemed like an hour, but was probably about five or ten minutes - just laid there on his stomach, in the position he had been 'pushed'. Eventually he worked up the courage to move, but when he did so he was immediately pushed back down and heard a 'laugh'. At this point he bolted screaming into his cousin's (uncle's son) room.

Yeah, believe me, i know how it sounds. I'm convinced he had some sort of a manic episode or visceral nightmare, but he's adamant he was wide awake throughout.

Appatently, his uncle and nephew later told him that the unseen japester was a fairly regular visitor, and that they even had a name for him (Monty!).

In my mind, there has to be a clear, logical explanation here, but he gets very annoyed with me any time i suggest this to be the case. So much so that he now refuses to discuss it with me, the moody sod.
Click to expand...

He had a Hypnagogic Hallucination or an episode of sleep paralysis. I used to get them a lot, most frequent one was levitation above the bed, then spinning around and around. They're terrifying at first but less so when you get used to them. They're not like dreams, you are fully conscious but unable to move, and you feel, see and hear things as if they're really happening.
 
Bonsaiboy said:
He had a Hypnagogic Hallucination or an episode of sleep paralysis. I used to get them a lot, most frequent one was levitation above the bed, then spinning around and around. They're terrifying at first but less so when you get used to them. They're not like dreams, you are fully conscious but unable to move, and you feel, see and hear things as if they're really happening.
Click to expand...

That's a great analysis, makes sense. But how does that explain the others in the house saying 'he's a regular visitor?' Is sleep paralysis or the hypoallergenic what-have-you hereditary
 
ShelfLife said:
He went out to Goa in India a few weeks back with a some friends. Whilst out there, he decided to go stay with his Indian uncle for a couple of days. His Uncle lives in one of the more rural areas out there, the name of which escapes me.

Anyway, as he was getting ready for bed on his second night at his uncle's, he tells me that he felt a sudden force grip his neck, as if strangling him, before suddenly letting go. He reckons this occurred four or five times in quick succession, before he had any time to react or understand what was happening. He then felt himself being dragged by both arms forcefully across the room, and pushed onto the floor from behind. At this point, he told me that he was so terrified and confused that he didn't dare move for what seemed like an hour, but was probably about five or ten minutes - just laid there on his stomach, in the position he had been 'pushed'. Eventually he worked up the courage to move, but when he did so he was immediately pushed back down and heard a 'laugh'. At this point he bolted screaming into his cousin's (uncle's son) room.

Yeah, believe me, i know how it sounds. I'm convinced he had some sort of a manic episode or visceral nightmare, but he's adamant he was wide awake throughout.

Appatently, his uncle and nephew later told him that the unseen japester was a fairly regular visitor, and that they even had a name for him (Monty!).

In my mind, there has to be a clear, logical explanation here, but he gets very annoyed with me any time i suggest this to be the case. So much so that he now refuses to discuss it with me, the moody sod.
Click to expand...

Bad acid.
 
i had a bout of sleep paralysis or whatever it's called, about 10 or so years ago. maybe more. felt like somebody climbed through my body. was a really weird experience, and it made me question wtf had happened (as you'd expect). no drugs involved, or alcohol or anything else. but i did some research into it and that did sound like it covered it, which satisfied me.
 
AuroRaman said:
That's a great analysis, makes sense. But how does that explain the others in the house saying 'he's a regular visitor?' Is sleep paralysis or the hypoallergenic what-have-you hereditary
Click to expand...

I did think about that. Withhout wishing to offend anybody or do the whole 'condescending westerner', schtick, in my experience, among people in the sub-continent, particularly the more rural regions, there is a greater readiness to pin things which have no obvious explanation, on the supernatural.

I think the SP explanation is a strong one. Interest wiki article on the phenomenon. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis
 
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