Ghosts

[scaramanga]

Precisely. Some folk have more vim. Others tend to drain and such out energy scara. Maybe it's nature's way of topping you up to where the rest of us are.

:ross:

Nice try but you didn't really say anything there - ever considered being a politician?

Oh, and I think you'll find I'm a more evolved version of you

 

[scaramanga]

Indeed. I find as I get older I have less and less tolerance for people believing stupid things like the existence of a GHod, fate, an afterlife, a former life, ghosts, a soul. Etc. Etc.

Same here.

I think it's to do with a growing understanding if the scarcity, unlikeliness, fragility and therefore value of life. The less of it I have left the more I pity (and wish to help) those who are ****ing theirs away in the hope of something else that won't come. Those that fill knowledge gaps with ghosts, unicorns, etc. instead of filling the gaps with awe, wonder and the amazing reality that the universe really has if you care to look.

 

[richie_spur]

As someone afflicted by illness I've come across of lot of voodoo doctors offering magical cures and they are all just charlatans.

I don't suffer from it personally, but there is no cure for Coeliac disease. The sufferer's body treats gluten an hostile foreign body and attacks it, which damages the sufferer's intestines - nothing can change that and the only option is abstinence from gluten. As I said earlier, Raoul Duke was probably misdiagnosed with it in the first place and had a false positive blood test for it. The only way to accurately diagnose it is with a biopsy.

=D>

I do have Coeliac Disease (diagnosed with the aforementioned biopsy). There is no cure with currently the only treatment being a lifelong gluten-free diet. There are quite a few snake oil salesmen around though who prey on the desperate and/or stupid.

There is also no such thing as ghosts.

Or the tooth fairy (dental-loving weirdo that she is).

Or homeopathy (which has been proven to work).

Or GHod(s).

Or witches/wizards/warlocks/shamen/juju men etc, etc, etc.

or half the **** that people believe in to make themselves feel better/spiritual/that there is a point etc.

Douglas Adams once said: 'Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are faeries at the bottom of it too?' which is both brilliant and true (whilst making one also think of nice looking lady-gardens) so it's all good.

 

[Bullet]

It is just human nature to believe in juju

We've all had little rituals for our beloved team [no Spurs in Random, I know I know] like holding your breath or crossing your fingers or touching the ceiling twice and saying Um Bongo because last time you did that we scored a last minute goal...

But eventually you grow up and realise none of that rubbish has any bearing on real life.

 

[scaramanga]

It is just human nature to believe in juju

We've all had little rituals for our beloved team [no Spurs in Random, I know I know] like holding your breath or crossing your fingers or touching the ceiling twice and saying Um Bongo because last time you did that we scored a last minute goal...

But eventually you grow up and realise none of that rubbish has any bearing on real life.

That's an inbuilt defence passed down by evolution.

In ridiculously simple terms, the caveman that assumed the wind rustling the grass was a tiger lived to procreate. The one who saw the likelihood of it being a tiger as small and ignored it didn't always make it.

 

[Bullet]

That's an inbuilt defence passed down by evolution.

In ridiculously simple terms, the caveman that assumed the wind rustling the grass was a tiger lived to procreate. The one who saw the likelihood of it being a tiger as small and ignored it didn't always make it.

Or the one who reasoned it was probably the wind kept on hammering away at his Mrs, whilst the one who thought it was a tiger kept pulling out and going limp.

 

[Raoul Duke]

beer

 

[Raoul Duke]

whisky

 

[Bonsaiboy]

@ShelfLife - Has your mate had any further occurrences of this? As on reflection it does sound like he may have had a Narcoleptic episode - if he's adamant he was standing up and awake when it happened, he may have had a Cataplexy followed by an episode of Sleep Paralysis. You should make him aware of this and ask him to read up on it and see if feels like he recognizes any of the symptoms of Narcolepsy.

 

[ShelfLife]

@ShelfLife - Has your mate had any further occurrences of this? As on reflection it does sound like he may have had a Narcoleptic episode - if he's adamant he was standing up and awake when it happened, he may have had a Cataplexy followed by an episode of Sleep Paralysis. You should make him aware of this and ask him to read up on it and see if feels like he recognizes any of the symptoms of Narcolepsy.

Cheers Bonsai. I've only seen him a couple times since he first told me about it, but he hasn't mentioned any further occurences.

He was so convinced that something 'other worldly' had happened to him and in hindsight, i probably could have been a bit more of a sympathetic listener. I think's he's a bit ****ed off that i was so dismissive, and hasn't really broached the subject since.

Thanks for the heads up on narcolepsy. I fully expect that a medically explainable episode of some sort is at the root of this, i'm thinking perhaps even an acute form of panic attack.

I'm mulling over a tactful way to raise the issue next time i see him. Cheers again.

 

[Daisuk]

I really want to find some cheap video recording equipment and install it at work. It often sounds like someone is walking down the stairs, but upon inspection there is never anyone in the stairs. Happens mostly at night, but we've heard it during day time as well (when there's supposedly no one home/upstairs). I've only heard it a couple of times myself (I used to work the graveyard shift 8 times a month last year), but the graveyard workers are saying it's been happening a lot lately. I'm not convinced it's anything paranormal, obviously, but I'm having a hard time trying to figure out what could be causing the sounds. It really does sound exactly the way it does whenever someone is walking down those stairs.

Maybe one of those dashboard-cams would do the job.

 

[braineclipse]

I really want to find some cheap video recording equipment and install it at work. It often sounds like someone is walking down the stairs, but upon inspection there is never anyone in the stairs. Happens mostly at night, but we've heard it during day time as well (when there's supposedly no one home/upstairs). I've only heard it a couple of times myself (I used to work the graveyard shift 8 times a month last year), but the graveyard workers are saying it's been happening a lot lately. I'm not convinced it's anything paranormal, obviously, but I'm having a hard time trying to figure out what could be causing the sounds. It really does sound exactly the way it does whenever someone is walking down those stairs.

Maybe one of those dashboard-cams would do the job.

I really doubt much of anything will show up on a camera. If paranormal stuff was real and showed up on video we would be swimming in evidence. If* it's some physical phenomenon it's most likely not something visible on camera. I would say it's more likely that you capture some anomaly on video, battery running out just as the sound was there or some other coincidence further strengthening the paranormal explanation than revealing something actually going on.

Auditory pareidoliais a real phenomenon. Typically known when listening to a music track backwards and hearing a "hidden message" once you're told what to listen for, where at first it just sounded like noise. Similarly noises in a house can easily be interpreted like someone walking down stairs once that is "the accepted explanation", the suggestion of it makes the sound fit to it in our minds. Could be a large range of different things like water pipes, just creaking from the structure because of thermal expansion or contraction (would explain it being more frequent now in the winter time) etc. Identification of the actual source would probably take a lot more than just a video camera. I applaud your curiosity though, and I suppose it's worth a shot, just wouldn't get my expectations up or read anything into a null-finding.

 

[Daisuk]

Oh, by all means, I'm not expecting to capture anything. I've just never had the chance to try and document a supposed "paranormal" phenomenon before, so it might be worth a shot (who knows, could be worth a million bucks!). If I'd only capture the audio, that would be interesting enough.

I'm way too skeptical to believe that there's something paranormal creating the sounds in the stairs, but I have to say that I did experience this before I was told all the rumours from the people I work with that the place is supposedly haunted, so I wasn't exactly expecting it. But I agree, in general it seems like a lot of "believers" tend to over-interpret everything in favour of what they believe in (as do the skeptics, though, truth be told). There are lots of sounds there at night, but most of them I've been able to discern (like you say, pipes, doors, the wind, windows, creaks in the wood etc), but the staircase sound really is intriguing - as it sounded exactly like it does when someone is walking down those stairs, footsteps and the reverberation of those footsteps inside the room.

 

[Mr_B]

:dipper:

 

[johnola]

:ross:

Nice try but you didn't really say anything there - ever considered being a politician?

Oh, and I think you'll find I'm a more evolved version of you

Ok, first things first. No one creature can ever be said to be more evolved than another at any point in time.

I am no more better adapted to living underground and predating worms than I am talking sense into you.

So now my own opinion. Ghosts are our bodies confused reaction to physical contact or conditions our bodies/brains have lost the ability to analyse.

As human beings we are descended from an unbroken line of organisms each of which excelled at surviving and eventually exceeding the restrictions of its environment. Some of those had cellular sensors which could have been accidentally passed on and inherited within our genome. These are inessential senses which may yet pass information to the brain. Is it not true many structures of the brain and many of our genes appear to be redundant, well many cellular characteristics are also inexplicable.

I postulate that we have senses such as magnetic and electrochemical that sense some physical presence which our heightened senses ignore, and our brains try to pass this off as a rational response.

So a certain resonance could accidentally be passed off by the ear as an organism despite our eyes seeing nothing. That could be the frequency our preys wings beat at 400 million years ago.

That's a ghost. It's not the remnants of a sentient being but the signal of a presence that is no longer important to our survival.

A lifeforce. My theory.

 

[Dayo]

Any chance you could explain that so I erm... I mean a child could understand please.

 

[milo]

Ok, first things first. No one creature can ever be said to be more evolved than another at any point in time.

I am no more better adapted to living underground and predating worms than I am talking sense into you.

So now my own opinion. Ghosts are our bodies confused reaction to physical contact or conditions our bodies/brains have lost the ability to analyse.

As human beings we are descended from an unbroken line of organisms each of which excelled at surviving and eventually exceeding the restrictions of its environment. Some of those had cellular sensors which could have been accidentally passed on and inherited within our genome. These are inessential senses which may yet pass information to the brain. Is it not true many structures of the brain and many of our genes appear to be redundant, well many cellular characteristics are also inexplicable.

I postulate that we have senses such as magnetic and electrochemical that sense some physical presence which our heightened senses ignore, and our brains try to pass this off as a rational response.

So a certain resonance could accidentally be passed off by the ear as an organism despite our eyes seeing nothing. That could be the frequency our preys wings beat at 400 million years ago.

That's a ghost. It's not the remnants of a sentient being but the signal of a presence that is no longer important to our survival.

A lifeforce. My theory.

I think that it is a lot more likely that they are our brains playing tricks on us.

 

[LutonSpurs]

I think that it is a lot more likely that they are our brains playing tricks on us.

On my phone so can't embed but there is a classic hip hop tune called - My minds playing tricks on me. By Ghetto boys. Would sum this up well.

 

[johnola]

I think that it is a lot more likely that they are our brains playing tricks on us.

That is exactly what I am trying to explain. We are a billion years plus in the making, evolution has left us a writhing mass of nerves and spare parts. Sometimes our brain will come up with the wrong solution to the information it is passed. That is hardly controversial - look at the clues we have from Psychiatry etc.

For a large part of our ancestry we were ocean dwelling creatures. We could retain senses that detect changes in water pressure and salinity - my point poorly explained by the looks - is that our bodies likely still respond to such triggers but have long since lost the brain capacity to understand how we should respond to these nervous signals now we are advances land-lubbing beasts - we cannot very well ascend the water column to avert the danger implied.

There is no reason that these senses need to be lost over time if they are shielded from the forces of natural selection.

I postulate, that ghosts are poorly resolved images of humanity which are triggered when such weird un-processable signals received by ours brain can only be attenuated by the visual cortex or whatever.

I also believe that some houses or localities do trigger such senses and that we accidentally give the brain a helping hand in resolving what may be causing the signal. However it is actually likely such sensations are experienced across a population of individuals. So where there is a myth that a weird sensation is caused by Roman Legionnaries then that may just give the brain a helping hand to flash that image across the conscious mind when in fact what is being sensed by the body is a particularly frequency which struck a chord in an ancient animal ancestor The frequency arising by the wind being regulated by the structure of the building or a gate or whatever).

So they may not exist but nonetheless can be witnessed because the brain is indeed playing tricks at the same place across time - because the same un-processable signal arises in that location time and again.

Does that really sound ridiculous?

 

[braineclipse]

That is exactly what I am trying to explain. We are a billion years plus in the making, evolution has left us a writhing mass of nerves and spare parts. Sometimes our brain will come up with the wrong solution to the information it is passed. That is hardly controversial - look at the clues we have from Psychiatry etc.

For a large part of our ancestry we were ocean dwelling creatures. We could retain senses that detect changes in water pressure and salinity - my point poorly explained by the looks - is that our bodies likely still respond to such triggers but have long since lost the brain capacity to understand how we should respond to these nervous signals now we are advances land-lubbing beasts - we cannot very well ascend the water column to avert the danger implied.

There is no reason that these senses need to be lost over time if they are shielded from the forces of natural selection.

I postulate, that ghosts are poorly resolved images of humanity which are triggered when such weird un-processable signals received by ours brain can only be attenuated by the visual cortex or whatever.

I also believe that some houses or localities do trigger such senses and that we accidentally give the brain a helping hand in resolving what may be causing the signal. However it is actually likely such sensations are experienced across a population of individuals. So where there is a myth that a weird sensation is caused by Roman Legionnaries then that may just give the brain a helping hand to flash that image across the conscious mind when in fact what is being sensed by the body is a particularly frequency which struck a chord in an ancient animal ancestor The frequency arising by the wind being regulated by the structure of the building or a gate or whatever).

So they may not exist but nonetheless can be witnessed because the brain is indeed playing tricks at the same place across time - because the same un-processable signal arises in that location time and again.

Does that really sound ridiculous?

Why would these senses be shielded from the forces of natural selection? Without the pressure from natural selection to keep such senses there's no reason to think they would have survived in a meaningful way. Mutations are relatively common on the timescales you're talking about, and most of them are harmful.

Brain development is fairly plastic and in need of sensible sensory input to take place, this is why people that are born with sensory deficits that are corrected as adults will almost without exception (as far as I know) have significant problems interpreting the sensory input when the deficit is later corrected by surgery. I see no reason why people would be able to detect the kind of sensory inputs you're talking about triggering visions of the supernatural.

If we had magnetic or electrochemical senses like you postulate that should very much be detectable by science, I have heard of no such evidence. If for example a magnetic sense like you postulate was present you would expect people would be able to detect magnetism with some accuracy higher than chance, I don't think that happens.

I don't see any way it could be accurately described as a "lifeforce" if it existed.

Meanwhile we have a ton of evidence for our cognitive shortcomings that are the suspected reasons for these so called paranormal phenomena. In line with current evolutionary thinking by the way. And not dependent on nondescript sensory leftovers.