Ryan Mason

[johnola]

You can have sympathy with someone, but if they publicly throw you under the bus while taking zero responsibility on their side, it probably fades quickly

He took responsibility by resigning.

 

[parklane1]

I wonder if the players had empathy with Conte’s health nor his grief.

Didn’t seem to play out like that anyway.

Maybe, but to be honest most of the players are younger and probably not had to go through the loss he had and the surgery on top of it.

 

[Grays_1890]

Did they not win a games and dedicate them to certain staff? Sure that happened at some point this season.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Did they not win a games and dedicate them to certain staff? Sure that happened at some point this season.

Brighton away

 

[thfcsteff]

Maybe, but to be honest most of the players are younger and probably not had to go through the loss he had and the surgery on top of it.

Absolutely bang-on! I don't think many at the club did!!! There seemed to be a lack of awareness generally as to what the relationship was between Ventrone and Conte.

 

[thfcsteff]

You massively overrate our abilities. You're borderline delusional. [emoji1787] A fight for the top 4 sure but clear 3rd? Have you seen our defence?!? [emoji1787]

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Had we not been chained to a single system (occasionally altered for the last 15 mins), had we played with systems that got the best out of all players, I think GB is absolutely right!

I have been a big fan of Dier, I think he gets unfairly pasted, but there is no doubt whatsoever that his drop-off this season was rapid, and that he was increasingly making those around him jittery/not allowing others to play their natural game. Mason has made moves to identify that within three games. Conte had months and months to develop/work for another system which could make the best of the fit players he had. Instead we continued to bang our heads against a wall.

The biggest shame of Moura's error @ Anfield is that in one swoop, had we ended 3-3 I believe Liverpool would've lost some serious momentum and we'd currently be right in there for 4th place.You have to wonder what might've happened with Mason in a little earlier. I admit I thought Stellini was retained for player continuity; it appears the players didn't want it!

 

[Grays_1890]

Absolutely bang-on! I don't think many at the club did!!! There seemed to be a lack of awareness generally as to what the relationship was between Ventrone and Conte.

There was but the players also showed a huge level of emotion for Ventrone at the time of his death, I think, like you they either did not understand their relationship (Conte and Ventrone) OR they just did not respect Conte in the same way and reflected in their lack of sympathy towards his own plight (health and emotions), which given the nature of his words and exit....I would not be shocked if that was the case

 

[thfcsteff]

There was but the players also showed a huge level of emotion for Ventrone at the time of his death, I think, like you they either did not understand their relationship (Conte and Ventrone) OR they just did not respect Conte in the same way and reflected in their lack of sympathy towards his own plight (health and emotions), which given the nature of his words and exit....I would not be shocked if that was the case

They for sure didn't quite gauge it. Add his age plus distance from family, you're getting a dose of midlife crisis/turbulence in there too...and the very man he turned to for a proverbial cup of tea and chinwag was gone.

 

[Grays_1890]

Had we not been chained to a single system (occasionally altered for the last 15 mins), had we played with systems that got the best out of all players, I think GB is absolutely right!

I have been a big fan of Dier, I think he gets unfairly pasted, but there is no doubt whatsoever that his drop-off this season was rapid, and that he was increasingly making those around him jittery/not allowing others to play their natural game. Mason has made moves to identify that within three games. Conte had months and months to develop/work for another system which could make the best of the fit players he had. Instead we continued to bang our heads against a wall.

The biggest shame of Moura's error @ Anfield is that in one swoop, had we ended 3-3 I believe Liverpool would've lost some serious momentum and we'd currently be right in there for 4th place.You have to wonder what might've happened with Mason in a little earlier. I admit I thought Stellini was retained for player continuity; it appears the players didn't want it!

Exactly this, no doubting Conte ability as a manager but when you take into account his Southampton outburst and then look at his lack of change or trying new combinations, players or dropping those in rank form, its does not add up for me, despite as I keep getting told....all his trophies. He had not exhausted his options, in fact limited them as has been reported so often, not wanting to drop certain players, absolutely marginalising others, then claiming to be let down by said players....I think within topic of last few posts, it shows a shift in the mans mental state as much as the challenge he had here. As you said and I said the other day, Mason came in and took a decision way beyond his years and experience to drop Dier, who ironically was a mainstay for two absolute super powers in Jose and Conte, changed up the system and despite being unspectacular made us look solid and functional at the weekend (following some real fighting performances before then). I would be borderline embarrassed that a novice took a decision that was so clear and was needed for both team and player weeks/months ago. We could mention Son too but thats also been done to death.

 

[Grays_1890]

They for sure didn't quite gauge it. Add his age plus distance from family, you're getting a dose of midlife crisis/turbulence in there too...and the very man he turned to for a proverbial cup of tea and chinwag was gone.

And TBF the man who was enjoying his time at the club (V) who probably gave him a grounding of "Things are not as bad as you think".....maybe, anyway def food for thought

 

[thfcsteff]

And TBF the man who was enjoying his time at the club (V) who probably gave him a grounding of "Things are not as bad as you think".....maybe, anyway def food for thought

His consigliari was what I said at the time of his passing. Grandfather 'boss' figure to calm him down IMO (and that is just a guess FWIW)...

 

[papaspur]

I only wanted to comment on us buying a CB this January instead of Porro.

While the jury will still be out on Porro for at least one more season in the PL, we can't judge whether this was good or bad business yet IMO. The thing about buying in January is that a lot of players simply are unavailable (which translates to "more expensive" if you're Chelsea/PSG/City). Perhaps the right target simply was not available?
In terms of saving that money for the next transfer window... I'm not sure if Levy would sanction it as he'd want some spending to lower the tax bill if we made a profit.

tl;dr I'm sure Conte would've wanted another CB, but maybe his preferred targets were too expensive or didn't want to move mid-season.

 

[Bishop]

Had we not been chained to a single system (occasionally altered for the last 15 mins), had we played with systems that got the best out of all players, I think GB is absolutely right!

I have been a big fan of Dier, I think he gets unfairly pasted, but there is no doubt whatsoever that his drop-off this season was rapid, and that he was increasingly making those around him jittery/not allowing others to play their natural game. Mason has made moves to identify that within three games. Conte had months and months to develop/work for another system which could make the best of the fit players he had. Instead we continued to bang our heads against a wall.

The biggest shame of Moura's error @ Anfield is that in one swoop, had we ended 3-3 I believe Liverpool would've lost some serious momentum and we'd currently be right in there for 4th place.You have to wonder what might've happened with Mason in a little earlier. I admit I thought Stellini was retained for player continuity; it appears the players didn't want it!

I think you're crazy too!

Battle for 4th sure but GB said clear in 3rd, there's nothing about this squad or first 11 that suggests it should be clear in 3rd. Even last season when everything was going well for Conte we were only on course for 76 if we extrapolated his ppg over 38 games. That would not have us "clear in 3rd".


All opinions of course but I just don't see it. We just aren't that good. Could we have been better this season sure, but clear on 3rd is a massive stret h imo. [emoji28]


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[Raziel]

I only wanted to comment on us buying a CB this January instead of Porro.

While the jury will still be out on Porro for at least one more season in the PL, we can't judge whether this was good or bad business yet IMO. The thing about buying in January is that a lot of players simply are unavailable (which translates to "more expensive" if you're Chelsea/PSG/City). Perhaps the right target simply was not available?
In terms of saving that money for the next transfer window... I'm not sure if Levy would sanction it as he'd want some spending to lower the tax bill if we made a profit.

tl;dr I'm sure Conte would've wanted another CB, but maybe his preferred targets were too expensive or didn't want to move mid-season.

And that in itself is the problem

- too fudging stubborn to realize for £40M+ there are better CB's than Dier & Sanchez
- too fudging stubborn to realize 3 in midfield at time made more sense
- too fudging stubborn to play Richi, Sarr, Danjuma when other players were out of form or we just needed more legs ..

Somehow fudging Howe, De Zerbi, Emry "make do" and get better results but he needed only his signings ...

 

[thfcsteff]

I think you're crazy too!

Battle for 4th sure but GB said clear in 3rd, there's nothing about this squad or first 11 that suggests it should be clear in 3rd. Even last season when everything was going well for Conte we were only on course for 76 if we extrapolated his ppg over 38 games. That would not have us "clear in 3rd".


All opinions of course but I just don't see it. We just aren't that good. Could we have been better this season sure, but clear on 3rd is a massive stret h imo. [emoji28]


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And you can start by removing that 'I think' while you're at it!!!

 

[papaspur]

And that in itself is the problem

- too fudging stubborn to realize for £40M+ there are better CB's than Dier & Sanchez
- too fudging stubborn to realize 3 in midfield at time made more sense
- too fudging stubborn to play Richi, Sarr, Danjuma when other players were out of form or we just needed more legs ..

Somehow fudging Howe, De Zerbi, Emry "make do" and get better results but he needed only his signings ...

This is why I won't mind having a manager that will develop youth players from our academy, especially with the current situation we find ourselves in. I liked that we played Scarlett in the Conference League even though he was still not quite ready. Overall still a good experience for him.
Anyway, I was saying we should sign Badiashile but Chelsea got him instead. He's the only reasonable target we could've gone for that I can think of. Do you know of any other CBs we should've signed in January?

 

[Raziel]

This is why I won't mind having a manager that will develop youth players from our academy, especially with the current situation we find ourselves in. I liked that we played Scarlett in the Conference League even though he was still not quite ready. Overall still a good experience for him.
Anyway, I was saying we should sign Badiashile but Chelsea got him instead. He's the only reasonable target we could've gone for that I can think of. Do you know of any other CBs we should've signed in January?

I think when fans look at CB's, we are thinking of absolute top level CB's, e.g. the next Romero

I find it very hard to believe there was no one that could do a job (upcoming young player to your point, or older veteran, e.g. a Gallas/Naybet type) available for £40M+, especially when we have now seen putting a fudging FB in the role improves the defense.

And that investment would not necessarily been a waste because I think we still have to buy that player plus a top CB over summer (we need 2 or 3 incoming CBs)

 

[Bedfordspurs]

This is why I won't mind having a manager that will develop youth players from our academy, especially with the current situation we find ourselves in. I liked that we played Scarlett in the Conference League even though he was still not quite ready. Overall still a good experience for him.
Anyway, I was saying we should sign Badiashile but Chelsea got him instead. He's the only reasonable target we could've gone for that I can think of. Do you know of any other CBs we should've signed in January?

Badishielle went for £32m
You would get Kilman from wolves for similar money
Both would walk into our team
I’m sure there are plenty of others if we were looking

 

[papaspur]

I think when fans look at CB's, we are thinking of absolute top level CB's, e.g. the next Romero

I find it very hard to believe there was no one that could do a job (upcoming young player to your point, or older veteran, e.g. a Gallas/Naybet type) available for £40M+, especially when we have now seen putting a fudging FB in the role improves the defense.

And that investment would not necessarily been a waste because I think we still have to buy that player plus a top CB over summer (we need 2 or 3 incoming CBs)

Another target could've been Jurrien Timber. Not sure where he will end up this summer but he could be a decent (aka, better than most of our CBs) option to have. I don't see us going for the Thiago Silva/Casemiro type signings because those players are on huge wages. We might make exceptions to that with players like Perisic if they come on a free. It's also so risky to go for older players as you never really know when their bodies are going to go.

I get that we're not scouts so we don't have a huge list of players but IMO, it is considerably more difficult to buy in January. We should be looking at the summer transfer window for where things could've gone better, even though on paper it seemed like all good business. In hindsight, we probably should've gone for a CB instead of Bissouma.

 

[papaspur]

Badishielle went for £32m
You would get Kilman from wolves for similar money
Both would walk into our team
I’m sure there are plenty of others if we were looking

I mean, how many years have we had Dier as one of our first-choice CBs? We could've rectified this situation much earlier but maybe Levy/management wanted to see if Sanchez would ever develop or if Tanganga could reliably make the step up. Just wasted time allowing the squad to stagnate until we finally brought in Romero.