Bedfordspurs
Arthur Rowe
First defeat since city
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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked
- Thread starter DubaiSpur
- Start date
First defeat since city
SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
Let’s face it, we’re not used to losing. We’ve become soft, spoilt supporters!
Hey at least we’re not a bunch of glory hunting goon winging clams.
Hard to take that defeat but there were a hell of a lot more pre-Poch. Baby steps still...
Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
Hey at least we’re not a bunch of glory hunting goon winging clams.
Hard to take that defeat but there were a hell of a lot more pre-Poch. Baby steps still...
Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
glasgowspur
Nayim
Exactly, a lot of positives from last night are being lost imv.
Our 2 "back up" full backs were very good.
Dele looked back to his old self.
We have strength in the squad.
Only negative for me last night was the result and llorente. It reinforced my view that he doesn't bring enough to our game.
I dont think perspective is needed because Poch himself claims to be aiming for CL titles and PL titles so this is the level we have to be winning at. You have to be critical and realise your mistakes/weaknesses or youre never going to improve. Also the issue with Poch and subs is nothing new, this isnt a reaction to the Juve game - its consistently raised by many on here during and after games. No one is hating on the guy, hes a young coach so has plenty to learn and will make plenty of mistakes and theres no harm in discussing them here without making it sound as if we dont love the guy....
glasgowspur
Nayim
I was speaking in a wider context, that's why I never quoted anyone.
Jurgen the German
Tommy Harmer
Me personally, I love this team and love watching us play. And it is true just the fact that we are competing with the likes of Emirates Marketing Project and Chelsea is an achievement in itself given the resources of each respective club. Money aside though, the fact is we have built a team that is more than a match for every team in the league, Emirates Marketing Project aside as their squad is unreal (Bernardo Silva wasn't even getting a game until recently! He would walk into every other team IMO).
I'm not a big fan of Alan Shearer as a pundit on the whole but he spoke a lot of sense after Chelsea beat us in the FA cup last season. He said we shouldn't be happy just to be competing with the top teams, we need to be winning trophies. I'm all for giving Poch all the time he needs within reason but the Leicester season was two seasons ago so there has to be progression. We have definitely improved our form in the CL that goes without saying. Our league form is hard to really quantify as we are playing away from WHL so it's hard to be too critical. The FA Cup however is still all to play and we have to consider ourselves one of the heavy favourites. If we beat Swansea but lose in the Semis again or lose to Swansea then that will show me that we haven't improved ENOUGH when it comes to mentality in big knockout games.
In that case, I agree
I never thought we would win the CL, so I wanted to play as many of the big boys as we could and see how we did. We've had some great results, and proven that we can compete with the elite. Thats one mental hurdle, the next is to become as ruthless as the likes of Juve. Look forward to more enjoyable European nights like this next season....
glasgowspur
Nayim
It's easy to be doom and gloom after a result like last night, but you can't win them all. The fact that we are winning, or at least not getting beat, more than we lose is a sign of good progress.
Agree, I dont get why so many downplay the importance of winning trophies on here.....
It depends entirely on the context of the discussion tbh
Don't think anyone thinks winning trophies aren't important but in the context of what's more important for our development as a team (for example) i would say we have grown more from our CL campaigns than we would have had we swapped them for a couple of league cups - trouble is someone who is unable to apply context or rationally take on board opinions different to their own will ignore the context put forward and just say that you don't care about trophies and you're happy being a runner up rather than a winner or whatever - see it all the time on here and elsewhere.
I remember having a discussion on here on more than one occassion about how winning trophies arent important in order to keep our players. I think it is important for that reason, and also because we are never going to have a true winning mentality if we dont physically win anything. I agree the League Cup on its own wouldnt be sufficient, but could well be the catalyst for more prestigious trophies nonetheless....
I agree with all you say, the trouble is does Poch think that's his "in game management" is wrong ? if he thinks he is right then he would change or learn, and what are the other coaches saying to him before/during/after the games ?
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
I would argue that the ‘Poch needs to learn to make changes’ thing is getting slightly overplayed. I think it was a strategic master stroke from Allegri to make the changes in the way that he did, because it exploited something fundamental about our own strategy...
We are a club that is built on overachieving through use of a system that allows players to perform way beyond where they had previously performed. You don’t get players like Trippier, Davies, arguably guys like Dier and Sanchez to perform at the level that they have been without it. What that means is that we have to trust the structure, we have to trust the plan, and we can’t let that go immediately because without it, these players individually may not be as good or as experienced as those they are competing with. And I think that was Allegri’s master stroke. I think we knew we’d be wedded to a system, and that system may cause some problems, but if he could be within touching distance of us at the point that he makes these changes, the confusion would have such an impact before we could reorganise into another system that they would take the lead at the perfect time. It almost worked out perfectly for him and even though we played well, with such cleverness like that you have to say their win was deserved.
Now, Poch will absolutely learn from this, and it will have been an amazing experience for him. But I think part of the whole club growing together is having these kind of experiences so that they adapt in pressure situations like they should, because they have the experience. When the players aren’t so reliant on the system to over perform because they have seen enough situations that they just know, and believe, that they know what to do. When we can be less reliant on a system, we will be less susceptible to what Allegri did to us. And that requires Poch learning, that requires the players learning, and it requires us simply having a better squad so that we can go from ‘punching above our weight’ to ‘deservedly playing at our level’. Then the strategic questions become entirely different.
Again context - ive seen countless times these discussions take place and always people ignore the context - are Kane or Alli etc going to stick around if we win a couple of domestic cups and fall off the pace in the league with CL football being nothing more than a pipe dream? Not in my opinion, that's not to say they don't want to win trophies but if we arent showing ourselves to be competitive for the title or giving a good account of ourselves in Europe then they will not be satisfied with a cup.
Winning mentality is a bit of fallacy imo - you're either a good enough team to challenge for and win trophies or you aren't. Big match experience as a whole is key of course and that covers cup finals too, but the idea that winning an FA or League Cup is going to transform us in to league or CL winners just doesn't stack up to any critical thinking afaic
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imcallingbullsh*t
Steven Caulker
Left the game, thought we were taught a lesson by Juve in how to kill a game, got a beer, watched the highlights and had a different view. We were on top the whole game, apart from 5 crazy minutes, the first goal came out of nowhere really, it didnt come after sustained pressure that poch didnt react to. If at half time we had pulled off alli(son etc) and put on Wanyama that was my knee-jerk reaction and we had come under pressure, Poch would have been criticised for going against a working gameplan for no reason.
Shots
Home23
Away8
Shots on Target
Home6
Away3
Corners
Home6
Away1
Shots
Home23
Away8
Shots on Target
Home6
Away3
Corners
Home6
Away1
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
In that case, I agree
Let’s be clear. When we say “ruthless” we mean “cynical” and “dirty”...As said before I think we should’ve slowed the game down around 60th minute and taken the sting out of it/evaluated the subs. We will learn from that. Having said THAT, you cannot create as many chances as we did and score so few goals. Hazza missed a couple you’d expect him to put away, and how Lamela doesn’t make a better fist of getting Kane’s post roller over the line I do not know!!!
Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
Glenda's Legs
Les Ferdinand
IF we do lose to either Swansea, or in the semi final should we reach it, it could be for any number of reasons. Losing a knock-out game does not automatically equal bad mentality. Calling it before we’ve even played the game seems a bit strange, imo.
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
Superbly put.
I seriously wonder if there hasn't been a bot-infestation in our support base recently? Maybe it is a reflection of society? I need to take on a bit more your calm mate, because I get too involved in the bot-ness and lose rational focus. It doesn't help that I am still hurt by last night, not just because we lost but because of the way we lost - by the way last time we played "big boy" like Juve supposedly did, this board went into meltdown and the entire football world told us we were a bunch of clams. I tell you this...had someone done Barzagli last night - I mean REALLY done him - or stamped on Dybala, I guarantee you we would be villains.