Cycling thread

[linnet_spur]

Of course teams who have a shot at a medal in the breakaway won't help, but Germany didn't and that's what made it so bad from them. By not helping out Team GB in the Peleton, they lost out on their own chance to win a medal too. Your football analogy isn't accurate.

Well it is, because I wasn't referring to the Germans, but to the lesser teams, Cavendish and co moaned about everybody not helping, not just the Germans. It wasn't in the interest for Germany to keep the Brits fresh at all.

 

[DHSF]

By main group I mean the biggest one, not the one in front.

I gather that duhhhh

I guess the three women at the front the ones who eventually got gold, silver, bronze - they were the cleverer ones because they took the lead early.

All this Peloton flimflam ultimately its who goes in front and builds a big lead that wins. So Cavendish coulda just built a big lead yesterday and just broke away from the rest - if he is THAT good - as I seem to get people saying.

 

[jts1882]

Admittedly I know jack brick about cycling but watched the cycling today and also yesterday and it really does beg the question - what the fudge is the point of the peloton? The leaders have won both times in both races.

Is this Peloton just a myth?

The effectiveness of the peloton depends on the number of riders sharing the workload at the front. Yesterday the breakway had 5-6 riders workding hard on the front (including three Spanish) while the peloton had a similar number (4 British plus a few friends). So the peloton didn't have an advantage.

If you watch peloton in the tours its a different beast. You gets races where the breakaway is 5-10 minutes ahead when the peloton gets serious. A couple of teams of 7-8 riders working together can close the gaps very fast and they nearly always get the timing right. You often see the escaped rides been caught with a few hundred metres to go.

 

[Jordinho]

I gather that duhhhh

I guess the three women at the front the ones who eventually got gold, silver, bronze - they were the cleverer ones because they took the lead early.

All this Peloton flimflam ultimately its who goes in front and builds a big lead that wins. So Cavendish coulda just built a big lead yesterday and just broke away from the rest - if he is THAT good - as I seem to get people saying.

The other teams would never let him get away in a break and he would never make it on his own anyway. His strength is the ability to go REALLY fast over a few hundred meters. Breakaways almost always consist of lesser known riders or those that aren't very good at sprinting, but very good at riding alone/in a small group (guys like Vinokourov, Flecha, Voekler of the top of my head).

Any breakaway will stand a chance, it all depends on how big a lead they can build before the peloton starts trying to catch up and how determined the teams with sprinters are.

 

[DHSF]

The effectiveness of the peloton depends on the number of riders sharing the workload at the front. Yesterday the breakway had 5-6 riders workding hard on the front (including three Spanish) while the peloton had a similar number (4 British plus a few friends). So the peloton didn't have an advantage.

If you watch peloton in the tours its a different beast. You gets races where the breakaway is 5-10 minutes ahead when the peloton gets serious. A couple of teams of 7-8 riders working together can close the gaps very fast and they nearly always get the timing right. You often see the escaped rides been caught with a few hundred metres to go.

So the Olympics is a different beast? The exception rather than the rule?

I mean the only two times I have watched the cycling i.e. yesterday and today both leaders had won the race so you cant blame me for thinking - surely just build a lead and go from there

 

[Richie]

Well it is, because I wasn't referring to the Germans, but to the lesser teams, Cavendish and co moaned about everybody not helping, not just the Germans. It wasn't in the interest for Germany to keep the Brits fresh at all.

It wasn't in their interest to keep the Brits fresh, but it wasn't in their interest to just let the Brits do it all either. They have one of the worlds top sprinters, they almost certainly would have won a medal if they had worked with Team GB in the Peloton.

 

[Jordinho]

So the Olympics is a different beast? The exception rather than the rule?

I mean the only two times I have watched the cycling i.e. yesterday and today both leaders had won the race so you cant blame me for thinking - surely just build a lead and go from there

It's different because the team directors aren't in constant communication with the riders over radio. The riders actually have to make their own decisions based on the little info they get on the time differences. In the one day classics and tours the team directors ride behind them in cars, constantly giving them feedback on what they should be doing. With GPS tracking they know the position of every rider at all times.

 

[linnet_spur]

It wasn't in their interest to keep the Brits fresh, but it wasn't in their interest to just let the Brits do it all either. They have one of the worlds top sprinters, they almost certainly would have won a medal if they had worked with Team GB in the Peloton.

So both the Germans and Brits got it wrong. Was certainly a strange race, seemed to be the whole time waiting for someone to do something, and when they realised no one had, it was too late.

 

[Jordinho]

So both the Germans and Brits got it wrong. Was certainly a strange race, seemed to be the whole time waiting for someone to do something, and when they realised no one had, it was too late.

Yep. It happens sometimes. Otherwise nobody would bother with the breakaways.

 

[jts1882]

So both the Germans and Brits got it wrong. Was certainly a strange race, seemed to be the whole time waiting for someone to do something, and when they realised no one had, it was too late.

Agreed both got the tactics wrong. However, the British team were trying to do something and were working very hard to close down the peloton. Both Froome and Wiggins, the two strongest riders in the Tour de France, ended up dropping out of the peloton because they were spent. The German tactics half worked, as Cav would have had no lead out team if the gap had been closed. The British mistake was allowing the group get away and assuming they would get help. The German mistake was not giving enough help.

Neither would have made that mistake on tour. The teams would have had exact time-gaps and knowledge about number and identities in the breakaway. A large group with three Spanish riders would have caused alarm bells. And both teams would have coordinated and instructed their riders accordingly.

While I enjoyed the one-two by Team Sky, it was not the most exciting Tour. They always knew who could safely get away and when to bring them back. It was the same with Armstrong's teams. The result is that the strongest team usually wins, but it removes some of the uncertainty and excitement. A bit like the difference between league and cup football.

 

[johnola]

Definitely, Dorking is where I grew up. Don't suppose you took any pictures did you? Wouldnt mind seeing what the town looked like.

I did, and would, but there are much better ones on this link!: http://www.flickr.com/photos/molevalleydc/with/7660906344/#photo_7660906344

 

[P.D.]

I did, and would, but there are much better ones on this link!: http://www.flickr.com/photos/molevalleydc/with/7660906344/#photo_7660906344

Thanks, some nice pictures. Torch through the high st looks good.

 

[linnet_spur]

I've certainly learned a lot about road cycling anyway, and it'll help me enjoy it even more in the future, think i will be watching the Tour's more now.

 

[Richie]

I've certainly learned a lot about road cycling anyway, and it'll help me enjoy it even more in the future, think i will be watching the Tour's more now.

The flat stages are generally quite boring since the Peloton always catches the breakaway so it's only the final sprint thats interesting. When you hit the mountains it really takes off, especially when the riders competing for the overall standings make moves

 

[Jordinho]

Yep, for flat stages it's only worth following for the last hour or so. Roughly estimated the peloton can gain 1 minute per 10 km. A 5 minute lead with 50 km to go might be exciting, but if it's less than 2 minutes at that stage, do something else and come back for last few kms only.

 

[Modric THFC]

Admittedly I know jack brick about cycling but watched the cycling today and also yesterday and it really does beg the question - what the fudge is the point of the peloton? The leaders have won both times in both races.

Is this Peloton just a myth?

The guys that got gold and silver were in the peloton until about 50km to go. Its a great place to shelter and not put in as much work and save yourself for later.
The question is when to breakaway. The guys that were in breakaways earlier were all caught.
Usually a breakaway is no more than 7 or 8 riders. Any bigger and the professional peloton will chase it down straight away.

On a flat stage were there is a chance that the sprinters can make it to the end with the peloton then the sprinters teams will race at the front of the peloton and keep the breakaway group out ahead at a catchable distance. Its in there interest for a breakaway to be out there as it discourages fresher riders from attempting a new breakaway.

Yesterday the only really sprinter teams doing any work were the Brits and the Germans. The British obviously expected the Australian and the Americans to help out with for their sprinters Goss and Farrar. But there were American and Australian riders in the breakaways all day so they rightly did nothing.

In a pro race a team of 9 riders going all out can control the race. Britain showed yesterday you just cant do that with 5. Pro races routinely come down to bunch sprints. The Olympic Road race has never in its history come down to a sprint.

 

[Superted]

Some good insights int the Aus team's strategy. Like O'Grady's comments:

From the moment the breakaway left the uninterested peloton, O’Grady was seen talking with his companions, using his vast experience to ensure the pace was controlled and that everyone remained motivated for the task that lay ahead.

"I was telling the guys last night, 'without radios, most of those blokes are just sheep. They haven’t got a director telling them what to do.’ They are at the Olympics. I was using a bit of experience and keeping them motivated," he said.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/goss-dismisses-cavendishs-comments-about-australians-tactics

 

[Modric THFC]

Some good insights int the Aus team's strategy. Like O'Grady's comments:

From the moment the breakaway left the uninterested peloton, O’Grady was seen talking with his companions, using his vast experience to ensure the pace was controlled and that everyone remained motivated for the task that lay ahead.

"I was telling the guys last night, 'without radios, most of those blokes are just sheep. They haven’t got a director telling them what to do.’ They are at the Olympics. I was using a bit of experience and keeping them motivated," he said.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/goss-dismisses-cavendishs-comments-about-australians-tactics

Australia ultimately did no better than the Brits. If it had come down to sprint their sprinter Goss was in for a good chance of a medal. Britain's road captain David Millar is just as experienced as O'Grady, both raced in the days before race radios. In fact they're huge mates inside and outside the sport. O'Grady dedicated a Tour de France stage win to his mate Millar just two weeks after Millar was arrested in the Cofidis scandal. A ballsy thing to do that didn't go down well with many.

 

[Park Lane James]

Australia ultimately did no better than the Brits. If it had come down to sprint their sprinter Goss was in for a good chance of a medal. Britain's road captain David Millar is just as experienced as O'Grady, both raced in the days before race radios. In fact they're huge mates inside and outside the sport. O'Grady dedicated a Tour de France stage win to his mate Millar just two weeks after Millar was arrested in the Cofidis scandal. A ballsy thing to do that didn't go down well with many.

Froome is 11/5 to finish in the top three of the Olympic time trial, thoughts on that?

Since Cancellara and Martin are nursing injuries and froome finished 2nd in the two TTs on the Tour I think it could be worth a few quid.

 

[Superted]

Difference is the Brits were outrageous favourites, Aussies just so so for a minor medal.