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Cycling thread

Can someone explain the tactics to me.

1) What is the team made up of - do they have their own individual strengths etc?
2) I have finally understood the peleton but why would the leaders not be part of the Peleton? if they choose not to be part of the Peleton why the hell are the others not trying to be part of the leaders and are content to be part of the Peleton?
3) Why would the guy at the front of the peleton be content with being at the front if it is easier be be second or third in the peleton?


arghhhhhhhhh I just dont get the tactics bit.
 
The peloton is the main group of riders, but there may be smaller groups ahead of them, leaders and others in between. Those that ride at the front of the peloton are doing a job and they know they're there to do it, set the pace and take most of the wind resistance.

When you pick a team you try to select riders to fit a strategy. If you have a top sprinter you want riders that can help him get to a bunch sprint instead of letting a breakaway group win. In the Olympics the teams are smaller than the big tours so you won't have as many riders with specific tasks like being the leadout man for the sprinter.

Some riders are better at going on their own, like the cheating dope bastard that won yesterday and if your team doesn't have a sprinter you want to get someone in a breakaway group. That's why the first part of a race can seem a little disorganised with riders trying to get away and being chased down. Usually a group will form at some point and get ahead of the rest, but since they don't have radio communication at the Olympics it's risky to let them go as you can't control how far ahead they get as we saw yesterday. The peloton weren't able to close the gap.
 
The strength of the Peleton is in its numbers. More riders can do the hard work at the head of the Peleton compared to the breakaway, so they stay fresher and chase the leaders down. Breakaway groups rarely win flat stages at the Grand Tours because the teams with strong sprinters always work together to bridge the gap, but they try it just for the 1% chance they can stay away. That's why yesterday was so annoying, because if the teams with the sprinters had worked together in the Peleton it would have ended as a bunch finish and the strong sprint teams like GB and Germany would have got medals. Germany cared so much about saving men to beat Cavendish in a sprint, they forgot about actually getting Greipel there in the first place

There isn't just one guy leading the Peleton, it is normally one team (which in a Grand Tour is 9 people) or a couple teams working to chase down the breakaway
 
Ok thanks both - makes perfect sense.

Now and this is my main question, im sure physics plays a part in all this BUT Cavendish said that his team needed help from the other teams - what the fudge? Why would the others help his team? I dont get that. Carry the workload? what? self combusting.
 
DHSF said:
Ok thanks both - makes perfect sense.

Now and this is my main question, im sure physics plays a part in all this BUT Cavendish said that his team needed help from the other teams - what the fudge? Why would the others help his team? I dont get that. Carry the workload? what? self combusting.
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Since there were so many riders in the lead group of them they needed more than the 4 GB riders in front of the peloton to be able to make up anything.
 
Jordinho said:
Since there were so many riders in the lead group of them they needed more than the 4 GB riders in front of the peloton to be able to make up anything.
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Nope means nothing to me. How would it have been any different had it been the Germans at the front of the Peloton or for arguments sakes the Australians etc
 
My big question is how the team tacticians could not forsee that as a possibility? It would be like Man U not expecting a team like Wolves to turn up at Old Trafford and do nothing but defend? Surely as everyone knows the Brits and Germans are the strongest, they will try to do as little as possible to help them as there only chance to win is the off chance one of their riders will break, and surely that should have been expected? Seems to be me that people haven't been able to get out of the tour mindset, and predicted it wrong.
 
DHSF said:
Nope means nothing to me. How would it have been any different had it been the Germans at the front of the Peloton or for arguments sakes the Australians etc
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They just need other teams to share the load to be able to ride at the speeds necessary to close the gap. If there were somewhere between 8 and 12 riders taking leads they might have stood a chance. A period of hesitation in the peloton will just increase the gap.
 
linnet_spur said:
My big question is how the team tacticians could not forsee that as a possibility? It would be like Man U not expecting a team like Wolves to turn up at Old Trafford and do nothing but defend? Surely as everyone knows the Brits and Germans are the strongest, they will try to do as little as possible to help them as there only chance to win is the off chance one of their riders will break, and surely that should have been expected? Seems to be me that people haven't been able to get out of the tour mindset, and predicted it wrong.
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Teams that have riders in the front group won't help out in the peloton. It was poor tactics letting such a big group get away and get a significant lead and because the teams had fewer riders it was harder to close the gap.
 
i think part of the reason for the misjudgememt is the differences in the Olympic format. They are used to race radios and larger teams, which makes it a different race.

Cavendish was hot favourite if it came to a sprint finish. For other teams with sprinters, like the Germans, their best chance was if they had a better lead out and that effectively meant they needed a tired GB team. So their tactics were right. If they'd shared the work to bring back the leading group, they would been helping Cavendish. They needed the GB team to do most of the work.

Their mistake was assuming that the GB team would have better tactics. When they realised that the breakaway had the advantage, they began helping but not in a very coordinated way. With team radios the response would have been earlier and more coordinated. And bigger teams would have made it easier. Yesterday, the Spanish (three riders?) and another team in the lead group had almost as many riders working together as the peloton. A few riders working together in a breakaway would not have had the same chance against the full Sky team or Cavendish's team from last years Tour.

Another factor is that in a tour the teams can do each others favours in return for help on other stages. The teams have different ambitions and multiple goals. So teams might have riders in contention for the overall, sprint or young rider categories or just be after a stage win with a sprinter so will cooperate as each can serve their main aim. There is a lot more scope for team strategies and cooperation.
 
Jordinho said:
They just need other teams to share the load to be able to ride at the speeds necessary to close the gap. If there were somewhere between 8 and 12 riders taking leads they might have stood a chance. A period of hesitation in the peloton will just increase the gap.
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Why didnt GB just ride faster? Why do you need the Germans to cycle faster? Why then didnt GB just pull away and do their own thing?

Jordinho I need more man more...
 
And again today the breakaway looks like holding off the peloton. This time its only three riders which is more impressive. And we have the top British rider in the trio.
 
linnet_spur said:
My big question is how the team tacticians could not forsee that as a possibility? It would be like Man U not expecting a team like Wolves to turn up at Old Trafford and do nothing but defend? Surely as everyone knows the Brits and Germans are the strongest, they will try to do as little as possible to help them as there only chance to win is the off chance one of their riders will break, and surely that should have been expected? Seems to be me that people haven't been able to get out of the tour mindset, and predicted it wrong.
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Of course teams who have a shot at a medal in the breakaway won't help, but Germany didn't and that's what made it so bad from them. By not helping out Team GB in the Peleton, they lost out on their own chance to win a medal too. Your football analogy isn't accurate.
 
DHSF said:
Why didnt GB just ride faster? Why do you need the Germans to cycle faster? Why then didnt GB just pull away and do their own thing?

Jordinho I need more man more...
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In short because they were knackered. Its much harder work to ride at front. So they need to take turns at the front and the more people taking turns the less time each rider spends at the front the more time them have riding in the slipstream of other riders.
 
DHSF said:
Why didnt GB just ride faster? Why do you need the Germans to cycle faster? Why then didnt GB just pull away and do their own thing?

Jordinho I need more man more...
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GB would only have 4 riders to take leads as Cav would stay further back, waiting for the sprint. Four riders is simply not enough to go fast enough. The intervals between each lead would be too short. When you're riding at the front you're pushing yourself beyond the limit and lactate will start to build up. They would only burn themselves out.
 
DHSF said:
Why didnt GB just ride faster? Why do you need the Germans to cycle faster? Why then didnt GB just pull away and do their own thing?

Jordinho I need more man more...
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To keep at a certain pace, the person at the front has to put in more effort than those behind. After 200km of riding at the front Team GB tired more than those behind as they rode at the front. Since nobody else was willing to ride at the front, fatigue of the leaders caused the whole peleton to slow down.

If the Germans had ridden at the front they would have had fresher legs and been able to keep a higher pace.
 
Admittedly I know jack brick about cycling but watched the cycling today and also yesterday and it really does beg the question - what the fudge is the point of the peloton? The leaders have won both times in both races.

Is this Peloton just a myth?
 
Peloton is just the name given to the main group of riders. Like all mass start events it's the first one to cross the finish line that wins.
 
Jordinho said:
Peloton is just the name given to the main group of riders.
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I think I get what you guys have said and understand it much more now. I guess my point was that the leaders have won in both times so why not just 'breakaway'

The ladies seemed to do much better than the men
 
DHSF said:
I think I get what you guys have said and understand it much more now. I guess my point was that the leaders have won in both times so why not just 'breakaway'

The ladies seemed to do much better than the men
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By main group I mean the biggest one, not the one in front. :)
 
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