Positives from today's game...

[DHSF]

i think you, and several others, are being way OTT with damning of our squad quality tbh - i don't think right now we are top 4 quality i agree but we're well on a level footing with those just outside - and with a few players potentially capable of improving us further.

United just conceded 5 and lost to Leicester, City lost at home to Stoke, Liverpool lost to Villa and West Ham and Everton just lost at home to Crystal Palace - our results this season are no better/worse than those who should be around us come the end of the season.

I think overrating our squad has been a general theme for the past couple of seasons. I dont think its all that. I think its a mediocre squad littered with a few very good players and the rest meh. I dont care whether Manure lost against Leicester I only care about Spurs and we should be beating the likes of WBA at home, hell even put in a half decent performance, **** happens. In the old days we would atleast create 20 odd chances yet draw but atleast we put the effort in. Yesterdays perormance wasnt just simply a loss and an unlucky one, it was a disgrace in all honesty.

At the moment its just an imbalanced squad. Its the composition that is all wrong. Will Poch change it? well im hoping he will in future and recognise what he needs and what he considers as dross as there is a fair few in our team that are just meh...

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Dembele IS good enough IMO. The other 2 are just not up to it in this league.

I share that view, moussa just has something for me, but he IS bloody frustrating, everything in his locker to be great, but just suffers this chronic losses in form!

 

[billyiddo]

I agree. If you put Chiriches, Rose, Kaboul, Capoue, Paulinho, Chadli, Ade, Bentaleb, Lennon, Townsend, Dier etc into Sunderland shirts, or West Brom shirts, not only would you not bat an eyelid; you would also think that the opposition was a bit shiit and we should take them to the cleaners.

Some of those players in the list have potential - but they're not being blooded underneath quality players like Modric or Carrick - these are our first choices! We simply are not very good, have bought badly and are in a bit of a mess. We can sort it out, but it very much looks like we are back to square one... right back to the Summer of 2004 when we had the Arnesen overhaul.

There is just no quality in there!

six of those players you listed aren't first choice and potentially neither are a couple more. go through Evertons squad and pick out 6-8 non first choice players and tell me how they fare

 

[billyiddo]

I think overrating our squad has been a general theme for the past couple of seasons. I dont think its all that. I think its a mediocre squad littered with a few very good players and the rest meh. I dont care whether Manure lost against Leicester I only care about Spurs and we should be beating the likes of WBA at home, hell even put in a half decent performance, **** happens. In the old days we would atleast create 20 odd chances yet draw but atleast we put the effort in. Yesterdays perormance wasnt just simply a loss and an unlucky one, it was a disgrace in all honesty.

At the moment its just an imbalanced squad. Its the composition that is all wrong. Will Poch change it? well im hoping he will in future and recognise what he needs and what he considers as dross as there is a fair few in our team that are just meh...

but the league is all about how you fare against others, and in order to judge where we are it's important to have an idea of our rivals strengths/weaknesses and their form and how we fare in comparison. of course we should be beating WBA at home - AFAIC any points dropped at home is a bad result - but our rivals (and sides above our level) are experiencing similar results, so to me, although it's a poor result in isolation it doesn't mean too much on a bigger scale as everyone seems to be having similar results.

 

[Dorothy]

Positives from Yesterday.

1. Journey into London was relatively quick.
2. I avoided all dangerous drivers.
3. The Bus driver at Wood Lane waved us through without swiping our Oysters.
4. The burgers outside the ground have improved.
5. There were no terrorism issues.
6. Great bit of steak when I got home.

Lennon and Soldado looked lively when they came on.

 

[Shelfie]

...Oh wait, there are no positives. We are such an average team with an average manager. We could have gone 3rd today, but no, we blew it. Looks like Levy is happy with Spurs just being a middle-of-the-road football team. Content selling and making a profit on our best players and not investing in better players such as investing in a better striker! ENIC should just sell-up and leave Tottenham. Hey, look on the bright side, it could be worse, look at Man Utd!

Glad to see yet another person recognising it's time for ENIC to move on.

 

[vkn17]

There are positives

Poch now knows who should **** off and who should stay (not many)

Does he really? Kaboul is still starting.

 

[Finney Is Back]

six of those players you listed aren't first choice and potentially neither are a couple more. go through Evertons squad and pick out 6-8 non first choice players and tell me how they fare

7 of them STARTED the game yesterday. 2 of the others came on as sub.

My questions for Pochettino would be:

1. Why are we persisting with two absolute clowns at centre half while playing Dier out of position at right back? Dier looks to be a better centre half than either Kaboul or Chiriches and Naughton looks to be a better right back than Dier.

2. Why when the opposition's full backs get forward do our team seem to have no idea who should be tracking their runs? It was just as apparent in the Liverpool game as it was yesterday and yet, if anything, we looked even less able to cope yesterday.

3. Why are we playing a holding midfield player who is completely incapable of getting goal side of the opposition's midfield when they break forward? Why does that same player stand in between our two centre halves when we have the ball?

4. Why is our lone centre forward so isolated? We (apparently) have 3 attacking midfield players and yet Adebayor is being left to try to make good of lost causes time and time again on his own.

5. Why do we seem to be slow moving the ball forward? Is this tactical or our players failing to play as instructed in terms of either making a pass or in terms of movement in order to be able to receive a pass?

6. Why are we not doing any pressing at all? Is this the players failing to carry out the manager's instructions (if so then surely he needs to change the starting players) or has the manager's philosophy changed since Southampton?

 

[Modric THFC]

Dembele IS good enough IMO. The other 2 are just not up to it in this league.

The guy doesn't have it upstairs.
He needs to look around and think for a few seconds before he can pass it on.
He can't play one touch football. He can't unlock defences. He can't conduct the game from the midfield like Modric or Eriksen can.

He can dribble and shield the ball. And that pretty much it.

 

[Finney Is Back]

The guy doesn't have it upstairs.
He needs to look around and think for a few seconds before he can pass it on.
He can't play one touch football. He can't unlock defences. He can't conduct the game from the midfield like Modric or Eriksen can.

He can dribble and shield the ball. And that pretty much it.

I wonder whether he could move a bit further back and play in Capoue's role?.... My thinking is that he is better on the ball than Capoue and more mobile than Capoue so should be able to contribute more defensively. Of course this would mean Dembele having to be positionally aware (and I have no idea on whether Dembele has that attribute?)

 

[Robspur12]

I agree. If you put Chiriches, Rose, Kaboul, Capoue, Paulinho, Chadli, Ade, Bentaleb, Lennon, Townsend, Dier etc into Sunderland shirts, or West Brom shirts, not only would you not bat an eyelid; you would also think that the opposition was a bit shiit and we should take them to the cleaners.

Some of those players in the list have potential - but they're not being blooded underneath quality players like Modric or Carrick - these are our first choices! We simply are not very good, have bought badly and are in a bit of a mess. We can sort it out, but it very much looks like we are back to square one... right back to the Summer of 2004 when we had the Arnesen overhaul.

There is just no quality in there![/QUOTE]

I wouldn't go as far as your doomesday scenario mate, the squad has some genuine quality. IMO the following:- Lloris, Vertonghen, Dier (potential), Walker, Eriksen, Dembele Lamela, Lennon, Soldado and yes Ade, are the basis for a very good side. The problem is we rarely play what I think are our best players together, and the rest of the team is just not good enough. I am hopeful Ben Davies comes through as our regular left back, Stambouli is a capable replacement for Sandro and Fazio come through but we really needed a Schneiderlin like player in the summer, although I understandwhy he wasn't signed. I said then and I still maintain he is the key player who will get this side moving. If we cant get him we need to identify a suitable alternative. We also need 2 more central defenders and another striker.

 

[Robspur12]

The guy doesn't have it upstairs.
He needs to look around and think for a few seconds before he can pass it on.
He can't play one touch football. He can't unlock defences. He can't conduct the game from the midfield like Modric or Eriksen can.

He can dribble and shield the ball. And that pretty much it.

I think you are comparing him unfairly to players like Carrick and Modric. He is a more direct player rather than a playmaker. He has a great shot on him and can tackle well. He was an absolute beast for Fulham, and for us in our first season. We need to give him an opportunity.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I think you are comparing him unfairly to players like Carrick and Modric. He is a more direct player rather than a playmaker. He has a great shot on him and can tackle well. He was an absolute beast for Fulham, and for us in our first season. We need to give him an opportunity.

I was concerned yesterday that he didn't really seem to do any pressing. If one assumes that Capoue is the holding player (and I know that is a difficult assumption to make when the player in question didn't actually do any 'holding') then one must also assume that Dembele is the box to box, ball winner and I just didn't see any of that yesterday. Perhaps it was just because two of the three in front of him also didn't do any pressing, it left Dembele unable to see the trigger for him to also press and it was safer for him to sit deeper rather than us get really exposed through the middle?

 

[Robspur12]

I was concerned yesterday that he didn't really seem to do any pressing. If one assumes that Capoue is the holding player (and I know that is a difficult assumption to make when the player in question didn't actually do any 'holding') then one must also assume that Dembele is the box to box, ball winner and I just didn't see any of that yesterday. Perhaps it was just because two of the three in front of him also didn't do any pressing, it left Dembele unable to see the trigger for him to also press and it was safer for him to sit deeper rather than us get really exposed through the middle?

I have never felt that his best position is a deep lying midfleid player. I thinks he is more effective behind the forward at the centre of the three where he wins the ball back quickly in dangerous positions for Lamela and Eriksen. I'd like to see a schneiderlin player as the box=box with stambouli as the "holding midfielder."

 

[clevelandspur]

Lamela's work rate. Again.

What about his marking for the goal? Look I am happy Lamela is showing some signs of promise finally but his end product was poor (again) he shouldn't be absolved of blame he was just as poor as the rest of the team

 

[mattls]

This a good discussion.. There was very little to take away from yesterday, i was very despondent walking away from the ground. All i thought was we're going to be hammered next weekend at Goonerville, but perhaps this performance will galvanise us but there is as much chance of that as hell freezing over..

After QPR i was fairly confident we might be turning the corner but our last two performances at WHL have been really poor. WHL used to be such a fortress and now i'm not sure what spurs side is going to turn up.

Our team lacks leadership, craft and most of all intelligence. So many times yesterday we picked the wrong option, some of the passing out from the back is really bad and so risky and then going forward some of the passing and movement, you wonder what some of them do all week in training.

I think alot changed when we bought those 7 new signings last year, we now have a very bloated squad and i think we just bought too many players and none of them really know much about the club and really care much. I was thinking if we still had the likes of Bale, Ledders and modric they could probably help in guiding these guys we have a lot of new recruits learning each others game on the job so to speak. Poch has a v big job on his hands..

After watching yesterday.. We should bring in JV and Fazio at the back and ditch Kaboul and Vlad. I'd also bring in Stambouli for capoue who is terrible. And try Stambolui and demeble in the middle.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I have never felt that his best position is a deep lying midfleid player. I thinks he is more effective behind the forward at the centre of the three where he wins the ball back quickly in dangerous positions for Lamela and Eriksen. I'd like to see a schneiderlin player as the box=box with stambouli as the "holding midfielder."

I hadn't really thought of Dembele in that role.... but, having thought about it now, I like your thinking! He would certainly have the physical attributes required to play there and his dribbling ability should make a difference in that part of the pitch. He should also be adept at pressing in this position as his strength should help him to win possession there. The biggest drawback would perhaps be his lack of vision and passing creativity, but with Ericksen left of him and Lamela right of him it should provide enough creative balance. Worth a look I reckon.... especially against Arsenal this weekend where we could do with the extra strength defensively that this would provide us with.

 

[Finney Is Back]

What about his marking for the goal? Look I am happy Lamela is showing some signs of promise finally but his end product was poor (again) he shouldn't be absolved of blame he was just as poor as the rest of the team

Was it Lamela who was supposed to be marking Morrison?.... I had wondered who it was that lost him as it was absolutely woeful marking. did Morrison even have to jump?

If I were manager when defending corners I would set us up with Lamela left up close to the half way line. I would also have Ericksen positioned half way between the halfway line and our penalty area. Would give us real potential to break and also make the opposition think about how many players they could afford to commit forward.

 

[NYSpur]

Was it Lamela who was supposed to be marking Morrison?.... I had wondered who it was that lost him as it was absolutely woeful marking. did Morrison even have to jump?

If I were manager when defending corners I would set us up with Lamela left up close to the half way line. I would also have Ericksen positioned half way between the halfway line and our penalty area. Would give us real potential to break and also make the opposition think about how many players they could afford to commit forward.

I have watched it a few times and it is clear that Lamela was not marking Morrison. Instead, he was designated to take up a position in the six yard box, marking space. Although it isn't 100% clear, I believe that Paulinho (yes, him) was with Morrison and then heads towards the ball as Morrison pulls away.

 

[PochettinoPochettinoPochettino]

Yep was Lamela and no Morrison didn't even have to jump, he looked surprised to get so much space.

I wouldnt have anyone out of our box at corners as we can't even seem to defend them let alone counter attack. Woeful.