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*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Crystal Palace FC ***

thfcsteff said:
Right. You saw that last season from CFC home game on; he made it very clear. You were either a fan of that approach or not. Of course you could've been a fan and subsequently shifted your position, but essentially, I think many people found that high line with 9 men bizarre. So essentially, you are expressing the same complaint for over a year; fair enough I suppose.
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That's not entirely true, though, is it? He did make changes first at Everton and then at least in the away game in Frankfurt's. If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say you like/respect him (which is perfectly fine, goes without saying) but on this particular topic, I think you give him too much credit: he's not as inflexible as you picture him since he did change his ways in a couple of important circumstances. What makes a lot of people frustrated is that he only does so in some very particular circumstances, but he obvisouly doesn't believe that a decent league position is important enough for him to tinker with his tactical set-up (which, clearly, in its purest form, doesn't work at all).

Of course, it's far from the only problem at the club or the only thing wrong with his management but I do feel he gets way too much credit for his attiude when he actually did sacrifice his so-called principles and beliefs when he thought there was something to be gained.
 
Mr Gogolak said:
That's not entirely true, though, is it? He did make changes first at Everton and then at least in the away game in Frankfurt's. If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say you like/respect him (which is perfectly fine, goes without saying) but on this particular topic, I think you give him too much credit: he's not as inflexible as you picture him since he did change his ways in a couple of important circumstances. What makes a lot of people frustrated is that he only does so in some very particular circumstances, but he obvisouly doesn't believe that a decent league position is important enough for him to tinker with his tactical set-up (which, clearly, in its purest form, doesn't work at all).

Of course, it's far from the only problem at the club or the only thing wrong with his management but I do feel he gets way too much credit for his attiude when he actually did sacrifice his so-called principles and beliefs when he thought there was something to be gained.
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Exactly this, seeing the performance in the first leg of the Frankfurt game was quite the eye opener because it did show he's able to compromise when something significant is at risk. For him to then play his nonsense in the very next league was the literally the point at which I decided I'm Ange out.

Up until that point I was wishy washy because I do like his philosophy and an in ideal world I do believe it's the best system to employ and I wanted it to work with him. For me I truly don't think his system is a million miles off but it needs some tamer and a dose of pragmatism. He needs to have some flipping understanding of our circumstances and he's demonstrated zero of that in the league. It even makes me wonder if the players have ignored his instructions in the quarters and semis and done what they think is necessary instead because otherwise it's incredibly arrogant of the man to keep playing his way when it's not working and he doesn't even have the first choice players (who also fail at it) available.
 
Bishop said:
Exactly this, seeing the performance in the first leg of the Frankfurt game was quite the eye opener because it did show he's able to compromise when something significant is at risk. For him to then play his nonsense in the very next league was the literally the point at which I decided I'm Ange out.

Up until that point I was wishy washy because I do like his philosophy and an in ideal world I do believe it's the best system to employ and I wanted it to work with him. For me I truly don't think his system is a million miles off but it needs some tamer and a dose of pragmatism. He needs to have some flipping understanding of our circumstances and he's demonstrated zero of that in the league. It even makes me wonder if the players have ignored his instructions in the quarters and semis and done what they think is necessary instead because otherwise it's incredibly arrogant of the man to keep playing his way when it's not working and he doesn't even have the first choice players (who also fail at it) available.
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I suspect the players have taken matters into their own hands to an extent. It just doesn't make sense otherwise as you say.
 
markysimmo said:
Play him with some good players, that would help
I love his work ethic too, he runs his nuts off and clearly cares
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Exactly this. The only time he tends to start for us is league matches in which we don’t turn up and have most of our first team absent. Can’t be shocked that when the team is so disjointed, Tel struggles. I think if he was given a chance to play on the left with the rest of the first team then he would really show what he’s capable of.
 
harr1984 said:
It's fine to disagree mate.

I'm not making an excuse for where we are in the league, I'm talking about specifically this match. The discussion was around Palace playing their full team, there is no pressure on their Cup final as great as it would be for them to win it. We really need to win and get CL football, it's right we rested our players. Also, we played Thursday night - Palace did not....
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Bottom line, after the semi finals we had 3 matches left this season, but only one that matters.
 
Mr Gogolak said:
That's not entirely true, though, is it? He did make changes first at Everton and then at least in the away game in Frankfurt's. If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say you like/respect him (which is perfectly fine, goes without saying) but on this particular topic, I think you give him too much credit: he's not as inflexible as you picture him since he did change his ways in a couple of important circumstances. What makes a lot of people frustrated is that he only does so in some very particular circumstances, but he obvisouly doesn't believe that a decent league position is important enough for him to tinker with his tactical set-up (which, clearly, in its purest form, doesn't work at all).

Of course, it's far from the only problem at the club or the only thing wrong with his management but I do feel he gets way too much credit for his attiude when he actually did sacrifice his so-called principles and beliefs when he thought there was something to be gained.
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True, and as someone who has gently pointed out where he has adapted available players within his philosophy, I cannot deny the point.

I think it is a good topic of conversation. What I would say is that his league side has rarely been fit or ready in its strongest sense. Given the practicalities of our situation, I'd suggest he and the club decided to do what they needed to in the Europa...
 
harr1984 said:
It's fine to disagree mate.

I'm not making an excuse for where we are in the league, I'm talking about specifically this match. The discussion was around Palace playing their full team, there is no pressure on their Cup final as great as it would be for them to win it. We really need to win and get CL football, it's right we rested our players. Also, we played Thursday night - Palace did not....
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Oh I totally agree we need to rest players. That said, this is year 2 under Ange and I’d expect to see patterns of play and a solid defensive structure embedded into the team by now but it’s a chaotic mess. Doesn’t matter who plays in the defence, we are not well drilled, solid, hard to beat. We’re one of the easiest teams to play against and create chances against. It’s just becoming too predictable in the league. Yes we’ve got a cup final to savour and prepare for, but the league form has pretty much been neglected in the calendar year and yesterday’s result and performance is indicative of that.
 
thfcsteff said:
True, and as someone who has gently pointed out where he has adapted available players within his philosophy, I cannot deny the point.

I think it is a good topic of conversation. What I would say is that his league side has rarely been fit or ready in its strongest sense. Given the practicalities of our situation, I'd suggest he and the club decided to do what they needed to in the Europa...
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I think that's the explanation that makes the most sense and, should we beat Man United - which clearly is a possibility - that choice will be vindicated. What I'd be interested in knowing is the moment they decided to go all in on the Europa League. At some point, it became fairly obvious but before a decision actually takes place, there are often a lot of small details that tip the balance one way or another.

It would be interesting to have an honest conversation with him, because I'm genuinely intrigued by his disregard for the league. He does act like there's little difference between finishing 8th or 17th. Maybe he's only interested in competitions he can win, which would explain why he did adjust his system in the EL and refused to do so the rest of the time... but that doesn't explain the League Cup semi-final loss at Liverpool or the Everton debacle.

From the outside, his changes seem a bit random and it would be great if we ever got to hear his side of the story in a different context.
 
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