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*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Crystal Palace FC ***

Muttley said:
Is Ange disregarding the league or is it the case that he cannot get the players motivated?

Since we dropped out of the 2 domestic cups, we have had 12 league games and 6 EL games. So that "second string" have had twice as many games playing together as the so called first team. Even then, the league teams are stacked with 1st team players and the drop off between a first team and seconds string player is minimal. The exception is VDV to Davies.

I'm also wondering why Palace who have a cup final 6 days after their game with us made 2 changes, 1 enforced. They crossed the white line with a totally professional attitude and executed the game plan. Clearly, their manager hasn't got a mentality where he allows his players to take their foot off the throttle. Reminds me of Pep when City did the treble. No chance he was making 8 changes. No chance any of his players didn't buy in to his system or were unable to execute it. Pep didn't need to be a spin doctor either when things weren't going so well.
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1. A vastly different level of squad health and fitness. We've already lost Maddison and Bergvall (this off the back of the thicket earlier in the season) and Deki is in the balance now. Are you seriously suggesting he should've played VdV or Romero?

2. If that's what you're looking to compare this set-up to, you'll be even more disappointed. We're striving for that but nowhere close.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
Palace could and should have hit us for 5 or 6. They're 12th and hadn't won in their last 5 league fixtures (albeit put in a really good cup showing against Villa in the midst of all that).

I.e. Palace are a middle of the road PL outfit and looked in another league to us. Looked like a midtable PL team playing away against a league 1 opponent in the cup. We were that bad.

For those that say "well its a nothing game they're concentrating on the cup" - these players are largely the ones that aren't going to play on paper and so should have a huge motivation to be selected for the final.

Plus, we've been playing like this all season, even before winning the EL or any other silverware became a significant possibility.

We are in significant risk of being relegated next season if there isn't a significant change.
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Behave.
You already KNOW the club are going to make 'significant changes' this summer, so why even go to that little chateau on Fear Island?!!!!

On squad motivation, I think there are a couple of players who worry me in that regard, one of whom was Spence. It is an issue. However, other than him, I didn't see anyone that wasn't really giving it some effort, I just saw another poor, disconnected performance with a teenage frontline and a midfield bereft of creativity once Deki went off (which then needs a different plan). Sarr is just off form sadly (and he is not a creative obviously)...
 
Bishop said:
You play your team into form so that they are ready to perform to their best when that final arrives. Just losing game after game cancelled not helping the momentum and mentality of the players. Their confidence is not going to be at its peak possibilities with loss after loss after loss.
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Yet somehow they've got to a Final despite an impressively consistent run of shoddy performances and defeats!

I think what you're putting forth is a metric which mostly applies, and most certainly is a theory I usually subscribe to. I think what we're seeing -in this case- is that this lot are somehow able to go into a totally different zone for European games. That's the evidence.
 
thfcsteff said:
Yet somehow they've got to a Final despite an impressively consistent run of shoddy performances and defeats!

I think what you're putting forth is a metric which mostly applies, and most certainly is a theory I usually subscribe to. I think what we're seeing -in this case- is that this lot are somehow able to go into a totally different zone for European games. That's the evidence.
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Interesting second point, however, could it not just be
a) the levels of teams in the EL isn't what it used to be and/or
b) players are actively ignoring Ange's coaching template now Europa League glory has become the one thing to go for in the season since early spring?
 
thfcsteff said:
Yet somehow they've got to a Final despite an impressively consistent run of shoddy performances and defeats!

I think what you're putting forth is a metric which mostly applies, and most certainly is a theory I usually subscribe to. I think what we're seeing -in this case- is that this lot are somehow able to go into a totally different zone for European games. That's the evidence.
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Mentality
They get it right for the games that matter to them
 
thfcsteff said:
Behave.
You already KNOW the club are going to make 'significant changes' this summer, so why even go to that little chateau on Fear Island?!!!!

On squad motivation, I think there are a couple of players who worry me in that regard, one of whom was Spence. It is an issue. However, other than him, I didn't see anyone that wasn't really giving it some effort, I just saw another poor, disconnected performance with a teenage frontline and a midfield bereft of creativity once Deki went off (which then needs a different plan). Sarr is just off form sadly (and he is not a creative obviously)...
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Fair enough on the "I know significant changes will be made" comment.

On players not putting effort in, i wasn't actually implying that most of them weren't, it was more a comment on those fans that dismiss issues evident in the defeat with "well it's a nothing game so they couldn't be bothered". Wasn't a nothing game for likes of Spence as you say as he more than anyone else has a stake in putting doubt in Ange's mind as to who his best full backs are for the final....

One thing I would say is I do see a lot of Maddison hate on here but we do look utterly clueless as an attacking force when he's not in the team. I really do think its a case of "you don't know what you're missing until they're not there". And he's suffered as much as anyone else having to play in such a disjointed team...
 
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harr1984 said:
Did Palace have a game Thursday night then? Pretty obvious why we made 8 changes, we had a big game in Norway - what on earth did you think we was going to do....
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So my philosophy on rotation has always been that it should be rotation on rotation. Ideally you rotate a few and then move onto a different few and then onto yet another few. That keeps everyone fresher. It's not just Ange, but I've noticed that Spurs are very susceptible to making 7 or 8 changes and getting really bad results. It's happened for years. The idea should surely be that every player has an individual fitness plan that you are guided by. They play to their sensible limit.

Our squad has members within it that have missed a significant chunk of the season. I would hope that should work in our favour at the business end of the season. They should be in decent place with the right conditioning, assuming they are fully over the injuries of 3 months ago.

Of course, the Villa selection is the more interesting one.
 
thfcsteff said:
1. A vastly different level of squad health and fitness. We've already lost Maddison and Bergvall (this off the back of the thicket earlier in the season) and Deki is in the balance now. Are you seriously suggesting he should've played VdV or Romero?

2. If that's what you're looking to compare this set-up to, you'll be even more disappointed. We're striving for that but nowhere close.
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As I just said above, it's all about individual plans and how a structured rotation strategy can work. The challenge is we have 2 PL games between 2 EL games. Say we don't play Romero and VDV against Villa on Friday evening. They then have to go 2 weeks without kicking a competitive ball. Is that good prep for a EL final? I may have been tempted with the Romero/Davies and Danso/VDV pairings over these 2 games.

Of course there is no right or wrong answer. Bergvall sustained that ankle injury in a post match training day whereas Madds was midway through the second half in Norway. Training injuries have been aplenty under Ange's 2 years in charge. Even when we played 1 game a week for most of an entire season we were seeing training injuries.

Let's see what the Villa line-up looks like.
 
Muttley said:
So my philosophy on rotation has always been that it should be rotation on rotation. Ideally you rotate a few and then move onto a different few and then onto yet another few. That keeps everyone fresher. It's not just Ange, but I've noticed that Spurs are very susceptible to making 7 or 8 changes and getting really bad results. It's happened for years. The idea should surely be that every player has an individual fitness plan that you are guided by. They play to their sensible limit.

Our squad has members within it that have missed a significant chunk of the season. I would hope that should work in our favour at the business end of the season. They should be in decent place with the right conditioning, assuming they are fully over the injuries of 3 months ago.

Of course, the Villa selection is the more interesting one.
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I agree with your overall point. But to think this logic applies to a team who arrived back from Norway Friday and expect not to make mass changes for a game on Sunday is just unrealistic.

Like you say, for the Villa game it will be more interesting and I imagine even the likes of Romero and VDV will get 45 minutes or more for that one....
 
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