*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Sporting CP ***

[alekaras]

And when it comes off the defender doesn’t that constitute a second phase as well?

Not unless the defender "plays" it. This was a deflection.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Does anyone want to discuss the other 94 minutes of the match?

We were poor for a large portion of the game again, should have easily been at least 2 goals down before we equalised against a team sitting 4th in the Portuguese league and we have to whinge about not being allowed a 95th minute winner.

Yes were better in the second half for a good period, but fudge me these are average teams we are playing in the CL. Feels like Conte and the team are getting away with it a bit here.…

Agreed. After Sunday I had little confidence that the team would get the job done and last nights performance proved me right. Would have been the definition of smash and grab if that goal had stood. I’m fully behind Conte, but honestly I haven’t enjoyed watching us since about 2018. Even the last year or so under poch wasn’t an easy watch as the team were so fatigued and stopped pressing as much as the early poch days. I want to win trophies above playing good football, but it’s hard to take when we’re crap to watch and win nothing.

 

[Dicko]

Does anyone want to discuss the other 94 minutes of the match?

We were poor for a large portion of the game again, should have easily been at least 2 goals down before we equalised against a team sitting 4th in the Portuguese league and we have to whinge about not being allowed a 95th minute winner.

Yes were better in the second half for a good period, but fudge me these are average teams we are playing in the CL. Feels like Conte and the team are getting away with it a bit here.…

I've just accepted we are knackered, over played, mentally shot and that nothing will change until we get some rest during the winter period (Assuming most of our 9 or 10 WC players don't go deep into the tournament).
People always mention how Klopp took 2.5 years to get the side he wanted, Arteta is in his 4th year (I think). We just need upgrades, Starting in Jan and then again next summer.

I know we should be playing better and there are many things wrong at the minute, But I have kind've accepted where we are at the moment. Hoping things will click again soon but if not soon then they will eventually

 

[Finney Is Back]

we don’t know what the original decision was, assistants are told to keep their flag down until the replay has been watched, he might have communicated offside to the ref instantly

I don’t think that is true. They are told to keep their flag down until the phase of play is finished. If they think it is offside then they raise their flag after (e.g) the goal is scored or the shot saved/missed.

 

[alekaras]

Wrong. You can never be offside from a pass going backwards.

Probably answered by someone else, but to summarize:

1. Direction of the pass is irrelevant
2. The line is drawn to compare ball position vs offside player
3. A deflection does not count unless the defender "plays" the ball

So based on the above, Kane was offside. What I am not sure, however, is whether the line is drawn from the center of the ball, or the edge of the ball. Given how close this was, this might have made the difference, but I am sure they know where to draw the line from. Really sucks that such a fine margin cost us the game, but in the end it was technically the right decision.

 

[AjaxDeSuperYids]

I've just accepted we are knackered, over played, mentally shot and that nothing will change until we get some rest during the winter period (Assuming most of our 9 or 10 WC players don't go deep into the tournament).
People always mention how Klopp took 2.5 years to get the side he wanted, Arteta is in his 4th year (I think). We just need upgrades, Starting in Jan and then again next summer.

I know we should be playing better and there are many things wrong at the minute, But I have kind've accepted where we are at the moment. Hoping things will click again soon but if not soon then they will eventually

This is so true and would be very different if we weren’t playing every few days due to the corrupt world cup coming up. Then there are the injuries to key players forcing some players to play non stop.

We will need to play a total second string at bournemouth. If we don’t the players in that game will be knackered and then will be even more knackered for Marseille.

With a week between games players condition will be around 100% but going into bournemouth I estimate many players will be at anywhere between 65% to 82%.

After they then play at bournemouth those percentages will drop even more for when starting the Marseille game. Kane will be at 66% and Son will be at 62%. Those percentages don’t just mean crap performances they also mean the likelihood of a hamstring going or similar and player out for 1-2 months.

I see no choice but to play the team below for bournemouth or marseille. Take your pick.

 

[harr1984]

I've just accepted we are knackered, over played, mentally shot and that nothing will change until we get some rest during the winter period (Assuming most of our 9 or 10 WC players don't go deep into the tournament).
People always mention how Klopp took 2.5 years to get the side he wanted, Arteta is in his 4th year (I think). We just need upgrades, Starting in Jan and then again next summer.

I know we should be playing better and there are many things wrong at the minute, But I have kind've accepted where we are at the moment. Hoping things will click again soon but if not soon then they will eventually

Agree but the fact we are knackered is partly on Conte and his inability to trust certain players to give them more minutes. Gil is an example of someone who clearly can offer some creativity and Jesus do we need that yet never gets a look in whilst less creative players do. Spence would add a spark down the right but doesn’t get a look in either. Persisting with Son instead of giving Richi a real go down the left, flogging Hojberg game after game etc I don’t think it’s beyond the realms to question how Conte has managed the squad…..

 

[metalgear]

This is so true and would be very different if we weren’t playing every few days due to the corrupt world cup coming up. Then there are the injuries to key players forcing some players to play non stop.

We will need to play a total second string at bournemouth. If we don’t the players in that game will be knackered and then will be even more knackered for Marseille.

With a week between games players condition will be around 100% but going into bournemouth I estimate many players will be at anywhere between 65% to 82%.

After they then play at bournemouth those percentages will drop even more for when starting the Marseille game. Kane will be at 66% and Son will be at 62%. Those percentages don’t just mean crap performances they also mean the likelihood of a hamstring going or similar and player out for 1-2 months.

I see no choice but to play the team below for bournemouth or marseille. Take your pick.

View attachment 14680

Cool. Witnessing the birth of the next match thread right here.

 

[AjaxDeSuperYids]

Also why was the referee grinning from ear to ear constantly whilst our many angry players were talking to him. Not one of our players smiled or joked with him at any moment and continued to look angry while this clam is just constantly grinning.

Can only assume he thought it would be good for him somehow to go viral by getting punched in the head by one our players.

I see no other reason why the clam was just permanently grinning.

 

[Dicko]

Agree but the fact we are knackered is partly on Conte and his inability to trust certain players to give them more minutes. Gil is an example of someone who clearly can offer some creativity and Jesus do we need that yet never gets a look in whilst less creative players do. Spence would add a spark down the right but doesn’t get a look in either. Persisting with Son instead of giving Richi a real go down the left, flogging Hojberg game after game etc I don’t think it’s beyond the realms to question how Conte has managed the squad…..

He had to decide whether rotating in players he believes to be 'inferior' is a better or worse option than risking 'his preferred' players. He choose to take that risk, hoping we can get to the WC break/January window. If he played Gil, Spence, Tanganga etc and we dropped points there would still be people moaning on here. It is was it is. He's frustrated the squad isn't where it needs to be yet. It will take time. I'm happy to relax and let it play out

 

[billyiddo]

Also why was the referee grinning from ear to ear constantly whilst our many angry players were talking to him. Not one of our players smiled or joked with him at any moment and continued to look angry while this clam is just constantly grinning.

Can only assume he thought it would be good for him somehow to go viral by getting punched in the head by one our players.

I see no other reason why the clam was just permanently grinning.

probably because our players (Dier) kept saying the ball was going backwards so he couldn't have been offside and he was laughing that these are professional players that don't even know the rules

 

[Finney Is Back]

Agreed. After Sunday I had little confidence that the team would get the job done and last nights performance proved me right. Would have been the definition of smash and grab if that goal had stood. I’m fully behind Conte, but honestly I haven’t enjoyed watching us since about 2018. Even the last year or so under poch wasn’t an easy watch as the team were so fatigued and stopped pressing as much as the early poch days. I want to win trophies above playing good football, but it’s hard to take when we’re crap to watch and win nothing.

I don’t think it would’ve smash and grab at all. We were camped in their half for most of the second half. Sure Sporting had a couple of chances, they are a counter attacking team and us being brave and getting lots of men forward was always going to leave gaps to exploit with a counter attack. We also had numerous chances ourselves in the game so ‘smash and grab’ is well wide of the mark.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I don’t think it would’ve smash and grab at all. We were camped in their half for most of the second half. Sure Sporting had a couple of chances, they are a counter attacking team and us being brave and getting lots of men forward was always going to leave gaps to exploit with a counter attack. We also had numerous chances ourselves in the game so ‘smash and grab’ is well wide of the mark.

First half they we weren’t at the races at all and sporting looked far sharper than us. We played well for about 25 mins.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Probably answered by someone else, but to summarize:

1. Direction of the pass is irrelevant
2. The line is drawn to compare ball position vs offside player
3. A deflection does not count unless the defender "plays" the ball

So based on the above, Kane was offside. What I am not sure, however, is whether the line is drawn from the center of the ball, or the edge of the ball. Given how close this was, this might have made the difference, but I am sure they know where to draw the line from. Really sucks that such a fine margin cost us the game, but in the end it was technically the right decision.

Nope, with the accuracy of the freeze frame, that ball could be leaving Emerson's head rather than hitting it, at which point Kane was further back. The whole point is they are trying to make a decision on the most minuscule of margins, and the technology can't back it up. The level of tolerance should match the accuracy of the technology.

 

[El Guepardo]

I remember when they used to say that if in doubt the decision would go for the attacking side. Why did they stop that?

 

[SpurMeUp]

Probably answered by someone else, but to summarize:

1. Direction of the pass is irrelevant
2. The line is drawn to compare ball position vs offside player
3. A deflection does not count unless the defender "plays" the ball

So based on the above, Kane was offside. What I am not sure, however, is whether the line is drawn from the center of the ball, or the edge of the ball. Given how close this was, this might have made the difference, but I am sure they know where to draw the line from. Really sucks that such a fine margin cost us the game, but in the end it was technically the right decision.

‘Technically’ you are sure this frame is exactly when the ball departed Royals head? You can’t even see the ball properly let alone make assurances that this was ‘technically’ correct.

 

[Dicko]

I remember when they used to say that if in doubt the decision would go for the attacking side. Why did they stop that?

People said they could remove the doubt

 

[FatBloke]

I fudging hate VAR. It is a thief of joy and should be fudged off altogether or its use minimised way more than it is now.

That aside, if they measure to the margin of error for VAR to be say 15cm either way, for the sake of picking a number, the red and blue lines should be drawn as 30cm wide and if there is any overlap at all then the call should be made as onside as it is within the margin of error. Yes, I understand the drawing of the lines is a little arbitrary but this 1-2cm offside rulings are just a guess too really so let's err on the side of more goals.

This. It's analogous to cricket where there's a zone of "umpire's call". If the wider lines overlap, it's accepted that it's too close to call and therefore it's left to the decision made by the on-field ref and linesman.

The problem is, can you even imagine the likes of Jamie Carragher being able to understand the concept of error bars?

 

[tommysvr]

I’d rather the 30 replays in the hope of getting it right.

I do expect perfection, how is anything else acceptable with the money in the game?

VAR will never be perfect though. So what's the point in wasting all that time, taking away the emotion of scoring a goal and all the other negatives it brings?

 

[Baleforce]

VAR will never be perfect though. So what's the point in wasting all that time, taking away the emotion of scoring a goal and all the other negatives it brings?

it's just different negatives, remember the Mendes goal at old trafford, Verts having a goal chalked off for offside when he was in his own half when the ball was played

as long as the decision accuracy rate is up on pre VAR it's worth it