Your preferred formation and starting 11

[Raziel]

Interesting; i think Sarr (or even Gil) could be that creative CM player but we'd have to be a team more naturally on the front foot.
Another uncomfortable question might be: is Richarlison our ready-made Kane replacement without the silky touch?

Yep, agree re Gil, I see Sarr as a CM that will carry the ball (progressive) but think Gil has both the vision and passing as well as the ability to beat his man.

Re Richarlison, I think so, different kind of player obviously and the creativity has to come from the midfield but Richarlison, Deki with Son's support wouldn't be a terrible front line for a while.

 

[DeanoAustin]

A lot of talk about formations. And I'm one who thinks Conte got it badly, badly wrong yesterday. But to add a counter argument...

We didn't change shape yesterday and had the better of the second half. That's happened countless times this season. You could argue that Woolwich maybe took their foot off the gas but that was a dangerous game because if Sess scores, there's a lot of time left and the stadium would have been rocking. In other games, Conte's absolutely turned the tide at half time without a formation change. And it's usually by us being more aggressive, giving the opposition less time on the ball and playing 10 yards further up the pitch.

Take Lisbon. The first half was absolutely horrendous. They looked like Brazil. We pressured them, dominated the second half and they looked very ordinary on the ball. So did Woolwich too to an extent yesterday. They coughed up possession a fair bit in the second half. The Dippers it was the same. Marseilles away...exactly the same after one of the worst first halves I've ever seen.

So that leaves me with a couple of questions...is it really the case that we'd be doing better if we "just ran around a bit" and why can't the guy on 15m a year get his team playing in the first half like they do in the second?

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

So stick with our squad and boot out Conte?

I think that's a conversation that needs to be had (not by us mere mortals).

Are we getting value from Conte himself?
Does he just need more time, as it has only just been over a year?
Or has progress/development stalled?
The added element that brings this into focus is his contract situation. We are at an extend or not point. This then feeds into the current window.

 

[AdamB]

T

Lloris

Doherty/Spence - Romero - Dier - Lenglet - Perisic

Bentancur - PEH - Bissouma/Sarr

Deki - Kane - Richarlison/Son

I'm pretty certain that playing 5-3-3 isn't allowed

 

[Raziel]

A lot of talk about formations. And I'm one who thinks Conte got it badly, badly wrong yesterday. But to add a counter argument...

We didn't change shape yesterday and had the better of the second half. That's happened countless times this season. You could argue that Woolwich maybe took their foot off the gas but that was a dangerous game because if Sess scores, there's a lot of time left and the stadium would have been rocking. In other games, Conte's absolutely turned the tide at half time without a formation change. And it's usually by us being more aggressive, giving the opposition less time on the ball and playing 10 yards further up the pitch.

Take Lisbon. The first half was absolutely horrendous. They looked like Brazil. We pressured them, dominated the second half and they looked very ordinary on the ball. So did Woolwich too to an extent yesterday. They coughed up possession a fair bit in the second half. The Dippers it was the same. Marseilles away...exactly the same after one of the worst first halves I've ever seen.

So that leaves me with a couple of questions...is it really the case that we'd be doing better if we "just ran around a bit" and why can't the guy on 15m a year get his team playing in the first half like they do in the second?

We play with a constant handbrake on, Conte expects players to play exactly as he tells them, in exactly the patterns he runs them through in training.

In my opinion, it's why we are so fudging slow, why we take the extra touch, why we are brick defending, we overthink it every time. And once we are behind, we have to go for it, perhaps the players feel they will be judged less in that scenario and they play closer to their capabilities.

The system is stifling, when it should really be enabling

 

[glorygloryeze]

A lot of talk about formations. And I'm one who thinks Conte got it badly, badly wrong yesterday. But to add a counter argument...

We didn't change shape yesterday and had the better of the second half. That's happened countless times this season. You could argue that Woolwich maybe took their foot off the gas but that was a dangerous game because if Sess scores, there's a lot of time left and the stadium would have been rocking. In other games, Conte's absolutely turned the tide at half time without a formation change. And it's usually by us being more aggressive, giving the opposition less time on the ball and playing 10 yards further up the pitch.

Take Lisbon. The first half was absolutely horrendous. They looked like Brazil. We pressured them, dominated the second half and they looked very ordinary on the ball. So did Woolwich too to an extent yesterday. They coughed up possession a fair bit in the second half. The Dippers it was the same. Marseilles away...exactly the same after one of the worst first halves I've ever seen.

So that leaves me with a couple of questions...is it really the case that we'd be doing better if we "just ran around a bit" and why can't the guy on 15m a year get his team playing in the first half like they do in the second?

I think you raise an interesting point and i think it comes down to this.

I believe Conte is one of those managers, like Rafa Benitez, Jose, Allegri, Nuno etc who think you can win any game if you condense it only into a 20-30 minute period where you press, harry and attack your opposition at the time you choose and when maybe they are physically and mentally at their most vulnerable. Think of it like the opposite of Klopp, Pep, Poch who desire to mostly dominate the game most of the time.
It requires a lot of tactical discipline and defensive concentration and strength and i think they feel it means you don't have to have the best attackers but just the sharpest at the key moments.
Our problem is that our defence have shown they can't be trusted not to lose concentration at some points and also our forwards are starved of possession/chances and they themselves get panicked by our defensive frailties they end up coming back as well to defend.

Conte is overall more progressive than the likes of Jose, Nuno but hasn't seemed to let go a bit more of the fear of conceding and just playing far more progressively in a higher percentage of matches compared to other coaches.

This might ultimately be his downfall as the PL is as competitive as ever and teams give up a lot less than in other leagues if they go one or two gaols down. It's far less draining (mentally and physically) playing in the last 30 minutes of a game being a goal up than chasing and seeking equalisers whilst also trying to shore up at the back and i think his methods (and his inability to be more risk taking in his play in general compared to his peers) suffer more than others when he doesn't have very good defenders who are also good on the ball.

 

[DubSpur]

A lot of talk about formations. And I'm one who thinks Conte got it badly, badly wrong yesterday. But to add a counter argument...

We didn't change shape yesterday and had the better of the second half. That's happened countless times this season. You could argue that Woolwich maybe took their foot off the gas but that was a dangerous game because if Sess scores, there's a lot of time left and the stadium would have been rocking. In other games, Conte's absolutely turned the tide at half time without a formation change. And it's usually by us being more aggressive, giving the opposition less time on the ball and playing 10 yards further up the pitch.

Take Lisbon. The first half was absolutely horrendous. They looked like Brazil. We pressured them, dominated the second half and they looked very ordinary on the ball. So did Woolwich too to an extent yesterday. They coughed up possession a fair bit in the second half. The Dippers it was the same. Marseilles away...exactly the same after one of the worst first halves I've ever seen.

So that leaves me with a couple of questions...is it really the case that we'd be doing better if we "just ran around a bit" and why can't the guy on 15m a year get his team playing in the first half like they do in the second?

It's not the system but the way it's implemented. Every system can be defensive or offensive. First halves we play within ourselves and at a pedestrian pace, second halves, for whatever reason we up the pace and look a totally different team. Same system different attitude.

 

[Raziel]

I think you raise an interesting point and i think it comes down to this.

I believe Conte is one of those managers, like Rafa Benitez, Jose, Allegri, Nuno etc who think you can win any game if you condense it only into a 20-30 minute period where you press, harry and attack your opposition at the time you choose and when maybe they are physically and mentally at their most vulnerable. Think of it like the opposite of Klopp, Pep, Poch who desire to mostly dominate the game most of the time.
It requires a lot of tactical discipline and defensive concentration and strength and i think they feel it means you don't have to have the best attackers but just the sharpest at the key moments.
Our problem is that our defence have shown they can't be trusted not to lose concentration at some points and also our forwards are starved of possession/chances and they themselves get panicked by our defensive frailties they end up coming back as well to defend.

Conte is overall more progressive than the likes of Jose, Nuno but hasn't seemed to let go a bit more of the fear of conceding and just playing far more progressively in a higher percentage of matches compared to other coaches.

This might ultimately be his downfall as the PL is as competitive as ever and teams give up a lot less than in other leagues if they go one or two gaols down. It's far less draining (mentally and physically) playing in the last 30 minutes of a game being a goal up than chasing and seeking equalisers whilst also trying to shore up at the back and i think his methods (and his inability to be more risk taking in his play in general compared to his peers) suffer more than others when he doesn't have very good defenders who are also good on the ball.

I also think the PL adapts really well, eventually someone figures out how to counter a player/system/tactic.

If you only have one system/tactic, it puts you in a bind when people adjust to it, which I'd argue is exactly where we are right now with Conte.

 

[Bishop]

It's not the system but the way it's implemented. Every system can be defensive or offensive. First halves we play within ourselves and at a pedestrian pace, second halves, for whatever reason we up the pace and look a totally different team. Same system different attitude.

2nd halves we are desperate and so the hand brake is off. The opposition naturally have something to hang on to do don't push as hard because they don't need to. The fact we are unable to play when things are even shows our true level.

Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk

 

[DubSpur]

2nd halves we are desperate and so the hand brake is off. The opposition naturally have something to hang on to do don't push as hard because they don't need to. The fact we are unable to play when things are even shows our true level.

Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk

We can play when it's even but don't. Everything is done at a walking pace. I can only assume it's due to Conte's instructions.

 

[DeanoAustin]

It's not the system but the way it's implemented. Every system can be defensive or offensive. First halves we play within ourselves and at a pedestrian pace, second halves, for whatever reason we up the pace and look a totally different team. Same system different attitude.

I think that's fair comment. Sometimes stuff gets attributed to systems and formations, and I do think he got it badly wrong yesterday because Sarr and PEH were hung out to dry in the middle of the park, but sometimes attitude and intent plays a big part.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I desperately want to see us move away from having 3 at the back. It is really hard to be effective with that formation unless you have incredible CBs who are excellent passers of the ball combined with brilliant wing backs and we don't have the desire/funds to get those real top players.

.......................Lloris............................
Royal.....Romero.........Lenglet......Sessegnon
.............PEH............Bissouma................
...................Bentancur.............
.....Kulusevski......Kane......Richarlison........

Though that team badly needs a new keeper and probably a better, more physical and pacey CB than Lenglet. It would also probably benefit from having better full backs and a truly creative attacking central midfield player that would allow Bentancur to slot back in instead of Bissouma or PEH.

 

[Raziel]

I desperately want to see us move away from having 3 at the back. It is really hard to be effective with that formation unless you have incredible CBs who are excellent passers of the ball combined with brilliant wing backs and we don't have the desire/funds to get those real top players.

.......................Lloris............................
Royal.....Romero.........Lenglet......Sessegnon
.............PEH............Bissouma................
...................Bentancur.............
.....Kulusevski......Kane......Richarlison........

Though that team badly needs a new keeper and probably a better, more physical and pacey CB than Lenglet. It would also probably benefit from having better full backs and a truly creative attacking central midfield player that would allow Bentancur to slot back in instead of Bissouma or PEH.

I'd say it's a good start, two points

- I'd recall Reguilon over playing Sess as a RB
- I'm almost as desperate for us to stop playing 3 up top, it's the same issue as the 3 at the back, it's giving up a midfielder for?

 

[lurker of old]

I desperately want to see us move away from having 3 at the back. It is really hard to be effective with that formation unless you have incredible CBs who are excellent passers of the ball combined with brilliant wing backs and we don't have the desire/funds to get those real top players.
Now is the time for Levy/Paratici to ask Conte: will you be here next season? If 100% yes, back him NOW. If no or maybe, sack him NOW and start playing a system which works with the players we have, spending the money on players who the new manager wants...

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I'd say it's a good start, two points

- I'd recall Reguilon over playing Sess as a RB
- I'm almost as desperate for us to stop playing 3 up top, it's the same issue as the 3 at the back, it's giving up a midfielder for?

Reggie has had major surgery with some stomach issue
He isnt coming back this season for sure

 

[Yiddo]

New Keeper

Spence Romero Lenglet New Lb

Skipp Sarr

Kulusevisk Bentancur Richie

Kane​

 

[papaspur]

4-3-3
Lloris
Doherty/Royal - Romero - Dier/Davies/Lenglet - Udogie
Sarr/Bissouma
Skipp - Bentancur
Kulusevski/Gil - - - - - - - - - - - Richarlison/Son/Perisic
Kane

4-2-3-1
Lloris
Doherty/Royal - Romero - Dier/Davies/Lenglet - Udogie
Sarr/Bissouma/Skipp/Bentancur (pick 2 of the 4)
Kane
Kulusevski - Richarlison - Son/Perisic
​

I made a case for 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 in the Skipp thread. I think we can play 5-2-3 or 5-3-2 in certain matches. Our defenders can't hide behind each other and will have increased responsibility. I know everyone is being cautious with Udogie but I'm quite confident he will be huge for us in time. Give him a season to get some PL games in and get up to speed and he will be flying. Can play Kulusevski as a CAM instead of Kane, but that's assuming we have someone to play at RW.

 

[Grays_1890]

4-3-3
Lloris
Doherty/Royal - Romero - Dier/Davies/Lenglet - Udogie
Sarr/Bissouma
Skipp - Bentancur
Kulusevski/Gil - - - - - - - - - - - Richarlison/Son/Perisic
Kane

4-2-3-1
Lloris
Doherty/Royal - Romero - Dier/Davies/Lenglet - Udogie
Sarr/Bissouma/Skipp/Bentancur (pick 2 of the 4)
Kane
Kulusevski - Richarlison - Son/Perisic
​

I made a case for 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 in the Skipp thread. I think we can play 5-2-3 or 5-3-2 in certain matches. Our defenders can't hide behind each other and will have increased responsibility. I know everyone is being cautious with Udogie but I'm quite confident he will be huge for us in time. Give him a season to get some PL games in and get up to speed and he will be flying. Can play Kulusevski as a CAM instead of Kane, but that's assuming we have someone to play at RW.

Pretty much how I have it TBH, that but Spence as RB and a major addition at LCB to play with Romero. A change in formation and some small tweaks just shows how different and dynamic the team could be when its not managed by Pregocop

 

[papaspur]

Pretty much how I have it TBH, that but Spence as RB and a major addition at LCB to play with Romero. A change in formation and some small tweaks just shows how different and dynamic the team could be when its not managed by Pregocop

Definitely agreed that we'd need a new GK, RB, and CB but I still think this formation would be better than whatever it is we're doing now. Just going by players that we actually have on our books to fill in this formation.

Maybe Conte should not be so afraid of being scored on. If the team had no attacking intent but was comfortably keeping games 0-0, I would say his philosophy is working in practice. We're leakier than my butthole after Taco Tuesday so I think Conte's mentality should be "we might let a goal in, so we sure as hell better score 2 or more goals."
At the end of the day, it seems like our passing lets us down so often. Simple misplaced passes all the time, I don't even know what to make of it.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I'd say it's a good start, two points

- I'd recall Reguilon over playing Sess as a RB
- I'm almost as desperate for us to stop playing 3 up top, it's the same issue as the 3 at the back, it's giving up a midfielder for?

I also think Regulion would work well as a Pochettino type left back (as would Sessegnon).