Who is the best Spurs manager/coach of the Premier League era?

[The Moonlit Knight]

Joey55 - why would AVB failing mean Redknapp bashers should/would have to revise their opinions of HR? or similarly why would AVB succeeding prove them correct?

I agree with this. The two are seperate managers and can't be compared to each other. What I find baffling is how little credit certain people on here seem to be willing to give Redknapp. Whether you like him or not as a person, rated him before he came to Spurs or not, there is little doubt that he did an amazing job at Spurs. Especially with the limited resources at his disposal. Other than the first transfer window where we spent a small fortune, and was unfortunately required due to the state of the team and squad he inherited, we hardly spent anything and yet still continued to fight for top four and actually did it twice in three years. I doubt we'll see Spurs do that again anytime soon.

 

[billyiddo]

I agree with this. The two are seperate managers and can't be compared to each other. What I find baffling is how little credit certain people on here seem to be willing to give Redknapp. Whether you like him or not as a person, rated him before he came to Spurs or not, there is little doubt that he did an amazing job at Spurs. Especially with the limited resources at his disposal. Other than the first transfer window where we spent a small fortune, and was unfortunately required due to the state of the team and squad he inherited, we hardly spent anything and yet still continued to fight for top four and actually did it twice in three years. I doubt we'll see Spurs do that again anytime soon.

i think internet message boards will polarize the opinions of those either side of a debate, discussions get drawn out over days/weeks/months and what starts out as just someone thinking it's time for a change in manager (for example) eventually appears to become someone with an irrational agenda with people throwing all wild accusations at them for holding differing views to their own and having the audacity to stick to their guns.

i bet there isn't one manager in world football that the supporters are in unison with each other about in terms of opinion and Im sure even the most hardened anti 'anti Redknapp phalanx' member would quietly concede over a pint or two that there are many valid points raised by the other side - they may not agree that it amounts to thinking the manager should be replaced/sacked whatever but they wouldn't sit there shouting you in the face that you have an irrational hatred for him or any number of the things which get banded about on here just for thinking he could or should have done better in some areas. Stop! Hammer time at the end of the day - just over the internet people seem a hell of a lot less willing to accept any opinion but their own

 

[parklane1]

Joey55 - why would AVB failing mean Redknapp bashers should/would have to revise their opinions of HR? or similarly why would AVB succeeding prove them correct?

what people think of Redknapp the man, or Redknapp the manager, bares no relation to how his successor gets on.

and what makes you think all the Redknapp haters are in favor of (or wanted) AVB?

prime example of someone assuming anyone with a certain view point on one subject thinks a certain way on another, bunching people together based on your own own preconceived ideas on what makes people tick

He obviously is one who can not get over " rent a quote" being sacked. And makes the ridiculous statement that

there are good number of Spurs "fans" on message boards that would rather see us being average without Redknapp as our manager than successful with him.



Nothing more to say about that really except RUBBISH

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

He obviously is one who can not get over " rent a quote" being sacked. And makes the ridiculous statement that

there are good number of Spurs "fans" on message boards that would rather see us being average without Redknapp as our manager than successful with him.



Nothing more to say about that really except RUBBISH

You undermined your own point there by calling Redknapp "rent a quote".

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

i think internet message boards will polarize the opinions of those either side of a debate, discussions get drawn out over days/weeks/months and what starts out as just someone thinking it's time for a change in manager (for example) eventually appears to become someone with an irrational agenda with people throwing all wild accusations at them for holding differing views to their own and having the audacity to stick to their guns.

i bet there isn't one manager in world football that the supporters are in unison with each other about in terms of opinion and Im sure even the most hardened anti 'anti Redknapp phalanx' member would quietly concede over a pint or two that there are many valid points raised by the other side - they may not agree that it amounts to thinking the manager should be replaced/sacked whatever but they wouldn't sit there shouting you in the face that you have an irrational hatred for him or any number of the things which get banded about on here just for thinking he could or should have done better in some areas. Stop! Hammer time at the end of the day - just over the internet people seem a hell of a lot less willing to accept any opinion but their own

That makes sense.

 

[joey55]

Joey55 - why would AVB failing mean Redknapp bashers should/would have to revise their opinions of HR? or similarly why would AVB succeeding prove them correct?

what people think of Redknapp the man, or Redknapp the manager, bares no relation to how his successor gets on.

and what makes you think all the Redknapp haters are in favor of (or wanted) AVB?

prime example of someone assuming anyone with a certain view point on one subject thinks a certain way on another, bunching people together based on your own own pre conceived ideas on what makes people tick

I mainly talking about a specific group of posters. I should have been more clear. I'm sure not all Redknapp bashers were in favour of AVB.

I think posters should look at how things develop and then revise opinions accordingly. Managers should be judged comparatively, rather than against some un-testable fan ideal. I think we need to be prepared to test our opinions and review them in time. I have a real gripe when fans don't learn from the past. Personally I think the success or failure of AVB should have a real determining factor on how we view football. For example, if he is a success it would cause me to question my entire views on the game. AVB succeeding would be so out of sync with everything I've looked into over the last few years regarding managerial appointments and the impact a coach can have at this level. I'd literally have to rethink my entire view of the game.

 

[parklane1]

You undermined your own point there by calling Redknapp "rent a quote".

My point is that

there are good number of Spurs "fans" on message boards that would rather see us being average without Redknapp as our manager than successful with him.

Is a over the top statement and shows the true colours of the one who made it.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

My point is that

there are good number of Spurs "fans" on message boards that would rather see us being average without Redknapp as our manager than successful with him.

Is a over the top statement and shows the true colours of the one who made it.

Maybe so, but judging by some comments on here I can see why he has that perception. It really does come across that some people on here hated the Redknapp era.

 

[Leeds Spur]

And he got sacked by Madrid.

Also got sacked by CSKA Moscow.

He can't even get a decent gig in his home country.

What the average period in charge in Spain? Just saying

 

[parklane1]

Maybe so, but judging by some comments on here I can see why he has that perception. It really does come across that some people on here hated the Redknapp era.

Of course, but there are just as many who are not prepered to give AVB a chance ( at least that is how it comes across). However for a fan to suggest ( as he did) that there are Spurs " fans" who would rather see us being average without Redknapp as our manager than successful with him. is rubbish.

 

[Leeds Spur]

People like to be right. On forums they post opinions. Fans on forums never back down. Many fans didn't like Redknapp or think he was good enough for SPurs. By proving them so wrong, they resent him. They will deny it, but there are good number of Spurs "fans" on message boards that would rather see us being average without Redknapp as our manager than successful with him. They can't admit this to themselves, let alone other fans, so they create insanely rubbish argument to discredit him.

If we struggle under AVB, there will be zero chance that any Redknapp bashers will revise their opinions. They will just come up with a long list of reasons why AVB failed, in the same way the come up with long lists of reasons why Redknapp had success despite him being rubbish. It happened post Jol. There were no Martin Jol apology threads on any Spurs forums after the Ramos debacle. Message board posters just aren't like that. They wont even consider that their criticisms of Jol/Redknapp were misplaced. It's not about football, it's about ego. Redknapp damaged a lot of egos.

And exactly the same is true of AVB. People have already made they minds up and will never like him or give him credit. Everything is seen through a negative lens and Harry should never have been sacked. Some clown on twitter earlier calling AVB a taco and wanting him sacked after 11 games. Embarrassing.

 

[Leeds Spur]

I agree with this. The two are seperate managers and can't be compared to each other. What I find baffling is how little credit certain people on here seem to be willing to give Redknapp. Whether you like him or not as a person, rated him before he came to Spurs or not, there is little doubt that he did an amazing job at Spurs. Especially with the limited resources at his disposal. Other than the first transfer window where we spent a small fortune, and was unfortunately required due to the state of the team and squad he inherited, we hardly spent anything and yet still continued to fight for top four and actually did it twice in three years. I doubt we'll see Spurs do that again anytime soon.

Jol finished 5th twice a but for a dodgy lasagne we'd have finished 4th. He should never have been sacked and Harry finished 4/5/4 is a great achievement. But not the work of Jesus as some would have you believe. That's it!! The improvement in play, excitement and results was the most marked under Jol. His work at Fulham and the signings made show the man is a top manager and very astute as well.

 

[billyiddo]

I think posters should look at how things develop and then revise opinions accordingly. Managers should be judged comparatively, rather than against some un-testable fan ideal. I think we need to be prepared to test our opinions and review them in time. I have a real gripe when fans don't learn from the past.

there's not a lot wrong with that and i agree mostly - but still, nothing really has made me second guess whether i think that Redknapp being replaced this summer was the right call or not, AVB may or may not be a success (a success relative to what we can achieve as a club) but that will not justify nor disqualify that original opinion regarding Redknapp.

 

[Raoul Duke]

No votes for George Graham? Has the world gone mad??

 

[joey55]

there's not a lot wrong with that and i agree mostly - but still, nothing really has made me second guess whether i think that Redknapp being replaced this summer was the right call or not, AVB may or may not be a success (a success relative to what we can achieve as a club) but that will not justify nor disqualify that original opinion regarding Redknapp.

But would it at least not make you question your opinion on how you judge managers in the first place and thus possibly lead you to review your opinion of Redknapp. After all AVB has had major success in the past. If he fails at Spurs, then you'll naturally look for reasons why and in doing so it's likely some of his failings will overlap with what you saw as failing specific to Harry at Spurs.

As a quick example, Jol was blamed for our terrible set piece defending at the end of his reign. When Ramos first took over this went away for a bit, but soon came back and prior to the signing of Woodgate, we'd conceded 6 from set pieces in the last 7 games. So that must surely make people question how much was really down to poor coaching after all. Ironically the team with the worst set piece record after us at the time was Saudi Sportswashing Machine, coached by Sam Allardyce, who was famed for his set piece coaching.

There will surely be changes you hoped to see under AVB, as you were unhappy with them under Redknapp. If there aren't improvement in some of these areas or if things get even worse, then surely you'd have to consider reviewing things?

 

[Jurgen the German]

And exactly the same is true of AVB. People have already made they minds up and will never like him or give him credit. Everything is seen through a negative lens and Harry should never have been sacked. Some clown on twitter earlier calling AVB a taco and wanting him sacked after 11 games. Embarrassing.

I'm unimpressed with AVB, but that doesn't mean I don't want him to succeed. If some fans are unwilling to give him a chance as you say, then that's their problem and its not good for the club.

 

[Leeds Spur]

Come on!! Some fans? Basically every bloke that voted Redknapp in that poll hates him.

 

[billyiddo]

But would it at least not make you question your opinion on how you judge managers in the first place and thus possibly lead you to review your opinion of Redknapp. After all AVB has had major success in the past. If he fails at Spurs, then you'll naturally look for reasons why and in doing so it's likely some of his failings will overlap with what you saw as failing specific to Harry at Spurs.

As a quick example, Jol was blamed for our terrible set piece defending at the end of his reign. When Ramos first took over this went away for a bit, but soon came back and prior to the signing of Woodgate, we'd conceded 6 from set pieces in the last 7 games. So that must surely make people question how much was really down to poor coaching after all. Ironically the team with the worst set piece record after us at the time was Saudi Sportswashing Machine, coached by Sam Allardyce, who was famed for his set piece coaching.

There will surely be changes you hoped to see under AVB, as you were unhappy with them under Redknapp. If there aren't improvement in some of these areas or if things get even worse, then surely you'd have to consider reviewing things?

like i said earlier whether AVB succeeds or not bares no relation on the decision to replace Redknapp - my reasons for that were based solely on Redknapp and his time here and whether i thought he was the right man to take us forward from this point. without going over too much old ground here i was happy enough with what Redknapp achieved with us, but i didn't like the England scenario and the way he acted over the contract in the summer and i had doubts over his ability to replace the talent of Modric and his general transfer policy (or lack of one) - so not much can happen in the future to change those opinions the way that you say.

If AVB fails then it means we appointed the wrong manager NOT that it was wrong to sack the previous one - if we had sacked Redknapp to appoint AVB it might be slightly different or more if i had been calling for us to appoint him, but i wasn't.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Jol finished 5th twice a but for a dodgy lasagne we'd have finished 4th. He should never have been sacked and Harry finished 4/5/4 is a great achievement. But not the work of Jesus as some would have you believe. That's it!! The improvement in play, excitement and results was the most marked under Jol. His work at Fulham and the signings made show the man is a top manager and very astute as well.

They both did a great job. But Redknapp's achievements are better in my opinion. I accept he had better players, but our record against the big sides under Jol was pretty bad. Redknapp managed to regularly beat the top sides with the exception of United. I know Liverpool aren't what they were when Jol was at Spurs, but we beat Arsenal in 2010 despite them being better than us and a team challenging for the title, we followed that up by playing Chelsea off the park 3 days later. They were beating teams by 7 and 8 goals towards the end of the season, I think we were the only team to beat them in the last 6 games or so.

Very few people tipped us to get 4th in 09/10. Most people would have backed the usual big 4 or City.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Come on!! Some fans? Basically every bloke that voted Redknapp in that poll hates him.

Not true. Kingdawson for example voted Redknapp, and he wanted him gone!

Other than his annoying raspy voice, I quite like AVB. I'm just unconvinced about his tactics/style of play.