Where is it going wrong in attack?

[SteveAWOL]

Gary Mabbutt - Lack of goals an issue for Spurs | Video | Watch TV Show | Sky Sports

 

[braineclipse]

Gary Mabbutt - Lack of goals an issue for Spurs | Video | Watch TV Show | Sky Sports

Very good interview from Mabbutt i thought. Honest, but positive.

I retain that the one real problem we have is the one being discussed in this thread. We're not creating enough clear cut chances, we're not good enough going forward.

Like Mabbutt I'm positive because although getting that right, particularly against organized teams, is difficult it is just the one real problem we have at the moment and if we can just get that right we'll still have a great season ahead of us.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Personally, Capoue has been the most-forward looking for all our central midfield recruits thus far (and I'm including Holtby in that definition). I'd play him in a double pivot with Sandro both to give us more defensive stability (which is now apparently another thing we need) and to provide those probing passes forward that everyone else seems unwilling or unable to execute. Just a thought.

 

[braineclipse]

Personally, Capoue has been the most-forward looking for all our central midfield recruits thus far (and I'm including Holtby in that definition). I'd play him in a double pivot with Sandro both to give us more defensive stability (which is now apparently another thing we need) and to provide those probing passes forward that everyone else seems unwilling or unable to execute. Just a thought.

I agree (as I've said before) that Capoue looks very promising in that deep role, willing to get on the ball and play more quick and purposeful passes from that deeper position than Sandro, Capoue and Paulinho.

Not entirely convinced about playing the two of them together in a 4-2-3-1 double pivot as you describe. It would mean essentially no goals from that central duo and none of them seem comfortable pushing on into the final third and be creative there so there would be a shortage of creativity too. It could work and might be worth a try, if Capoue could help the attacking midfield trio find more space to do their thing by releasing the right passes from midfield we might see more goals both from that midfield trio and from our striker.

Another option of course would be a more 4-4-2 looking formation where perhaps a lack of goals from central midfield would be less noticeable? Certainly they would be able to do the job defensively, could be interesting.

Of course the option of dropping Sandro to include Capoue doesn't seem tempting either so I have no real obvious good solution to our midfield conundrum.

 

[Cochise]

Lets face it, it's Sandro of Capoue. I thought he was Sandros replacement tbh because of that knee injury

 

[Modric THFC]

No what I'm saying is we have always struggled to score and struggled to create under AVB.
Bale masked over that by turning into Ronaldo for 5 months.

I have shown Bale not being there is the problem by looking the percentage of games we would have won without his goals. We would have won only 2 out of the last 17 league games of the 2012/13 season without Bale's goals. If you remove Dempsey's or Adebayor's as you suggest if would make no real difference.

Before Bale's run of form we were all frustrated on here. Remember Dempsey and Siggy struggling to create anything. Remember Lewis Holtby being hailed as a potential saviour when he actually linked up a few passes on his debut. That's how desperate we were then. We were a mess similar to what we are right now.

Turns out I wrote part of Martin Samuels anti AVB rant for him:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...s-best-thing--elses-fault--MARTIN-SAMUEL.html
"Take Bale away from Tottenham in 2012-13 and it is unlikely the team would have made Europe. He wasn’t just influential, he was essential. His goals turned defeats into wins against Saudi Sportswashing Machine and West Ham, draws into wins against Manchester United, Southampton, Liverpool, West Bromwich Albion, Arsenal, Swansea City, Southampton again and Sunderland and defeats into draws against Norwich City and Wigan Athletic.

Clearly, had he not been selected, a team-mate would have played, and could have been important, too. Yet would his goals have compared?
Put it like this: Clint Dempsey’s goals were worth seven points to Tottenham last season, Aaron Lennon’s were worth six; Bale was good for 24. He hit Cristiano Ronaldo form, which is why Madrid wanted to make them a partnership."

 

[AVB]

Its all of 2013 bar one game.
So if we add in the extra game its:
Tottenham won 6 Premier league games (20%) in 2013 without Bale or pens.
United winning 13 Premier league games (43%) in 2013 without Rooney or pens.
City winning 15 Premier league games (50%) in 2013 without Aguero or pens.

problem is city and United both still have these players we sold our guy

 

[Modric THFC]

problem is city and United both still have these players we sold our guy

Exactly thats what make the stats so bad.

Bale has played 16 league games for us in 2013.
Rooney 24 league games for united in 2013.
Aguero 26 league games for city in 2013.

So the stats show united and city with 10 men for 24/30 and 26/30 have a better win ratio than us with 10 men for only 16/30.

 

[DMac]

Very good interview from Mabbutt i thought. Honest, but positive.

I retain that the one real problem we have is the one being discussed in this thread. We're not creating enough clear cut chances, we're not good enough going forward.

Like Mabbutt I'm positive because although getting that right, particularly against organized teams, is difficult it is just the one real problem we have at the moment and if we can just get that right we'll still have a great season ahead of us.

Honestly it's not, there are a litany of problems and they all stem from idiotic tactics. Our defense has been getting worse as well, not better.

 

[DMac]

I agree (as I've said before) that Capoue looks very promising in that deep role, willing to get on the ball and play more quick and purposeful passes from that deeper position than Sandro, Capoue and Paulinho.

Not entirely convinced about playing the two of them together in a 4-2-3-1 double pivot as you describe. It would mean essentially no goals from that central duo and none of them seem comfortable pushing on into the final third and be creative there so there would be a shortage of creativity too. It could work and might be worth a try, if Capoue could help the attacking midfield trio find more space to do their thing by releasing the right passes from midfield we might see more goals both from that midfield trio and from our striker.

Another option of course would be a more 4-4-2 looking formation where perhaps a lack of goals from central midfield would be less noticeable? Certainly they would be able to do the job defensively, could be interesting.

Of course the option of dropping Sandro to include Capoue doesn't seem tempting either so I have no real obvious good solution to our midfield conundrum.

Capoue scored and assisted many more goals than Dembele last season though so I'm not entirely sure that's true.

 

[braineclipse]

Honestly it's not, there are a litany of problems and they all stem from idiotic tactics. Our defense has been getting worse as well, not better.

We'll just have to agree to disagree then.

Of course there will be minor issues at any time, but if our attacking play had been fine this season and we'd scored a few more goals we would probably both be higher up the table and most people would be more than happy with the situation I think.

Capoue scored and assisted many more goals than Dembele last season though so I'm not entirely sure that's true.

In the French league. Until he shows that he's capable of doing that in the PL for us from one of the deep roles in a 4-2-3-1 I won't be holding my breath.

 

[scaramanga]

We'll just have to agree to disagree then.

Of course there will be minor issues at any time, but if our attacking play had been fine this season and we'd scored a few more goals we would probably both be higher up the table and most people would be more than happy with the situation I think.



In the French league. Until he shows that he's capable of doing that in the PL for us from one of the deep roles in a 4-2-3-1 I won't be holding my breath.

If he's assisting lots (have to rely on other people here, haven't looked it up), then either he was playing further forward, taking set pieces or playing hoofball.

I will assume he was playing further forward, so maybe he could be the forward player in the pivot with Sandro?

 

[braineclipse]

If he's assisting lots (have to rely on other people here, haven't looked it up), then either he was playing further forward, taking set pieces or playing hoofball.

I will assume he was playing further forward, so maybe he could be the forward player in the pivot with Sandro?

Possibly. Or possibly in the French league there's more space to exploit. Or perhaps just by the nature of being their best and most influential player he got on the ball more in advanced areas despite starting in a deeper position. Or perhaps the numbers that particular season were a bit high just by chance.

According to whoscored he scored 7 goals and had 3 assists last season in 34 league games. The season before that he had 3 goals and 4 assists in 31 league games. To repeat myself, I'm not holding my breath.

Capoue and Sandro alongside each other in a 4-2-3-1 or as two of the central 3 in a 4-3-3 is at least interesting. We're not getting passing tempo and movement from Paulinho and Dembele so it could be worth a try. I wouldn't mind seeing a midfield 3 with Capoue holding behind Dembele and Sandro in a 4-3-3 against United.

I'm feeling my obsession with a deep lying playmaker returning to full force. I was hoping that the joined qualities of other players would negate the need for such a player in our team, but so far we haven't been able to pull that off for whatever reason. Capoue is the closest we have to a player like this with Holtby seemingly not rated in that role by management and Carroll out on loan so I would like to see him on the pitch.

 

[diego_maradona]

We don't really have a tactics thread as such so I'm going to post my thoughts in this thread.

I think a lot of people have mentioned that we lack a pivot, a player to direct our traffic and control our tempo. In a nutshell we miss Modric.

But in Paulinho's new found role I'm wondering whether we should play Eriksen when he is fit again in a CM position next to Sandro and Paulinho or Dembele further forward. I like the idea of having players who can win the ball further forward (in Dembele and Paulinho) and a player to dictate our possession from further back. Just a thought

----------Sandro------Eriksen--------
Lennon------Paulinho/Dembele----LF

 

[Modric THFC]

We don't really have a tactics thread as such so I'm going to post my thoughts in this thread.

I think a lot of people have mentioned that we lack a pivot, a player to direct our traffic and control our tempo. In a nutshell we miss Modric.

But in Paulinho's new found role I'm wondering whether we should play Eriksen when he is fit again in a CM position next to Sandro and Paulinho or Dembele further forward. I like the idea of having players who can win the ball further forward (in Dembele and Paulinho) and a player to dictate our possession from further back. Just a thought

----------Sandro------Eriksen--------
Lennon------Paulinho/Dembele----LF

I'd like to see Holtby play deep like that at the weekend with Paulinho in front of him.