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What went wrong today?

Whether we like it or not this result has been coming. We've not been anywhere enough ruthless in our games.

Im also sick of this bull**** excuse about the team needing to gel- how are they supposed to gel when we clearly dont have a system in place for the team to get used to each. Its down to avb to provide some structure for the Lads but im not sure he has it in him.

Everyone says he tactically astute but the big calls so far have found him wanting a bit.

We should go 433 with sandro paulinho and holtby in the centre with townsend left lamela right soldado upfront and work from there.

We're kidding ourselves if we think we'll finish top four this year. Both liverpool and everton dont have the distraction of europe that we have and that and both having relativrly settled sides means we will struggle for top four.

We're playing the same system we did last season, a 4-3-3 with an advanced central midfielder. It can also be referred to as 4-2-3-1, but the difference is pretty much non-existant on the pitch. The only difference this season is that we aren't set up to provide Bale with an opportunity to shoot and our main striker stays in and around the box. The fact that we had conceded 2 (TWO!) goals in the 11 games prior to this one tells me it's a damn good system. Today we paid for, among other things, having two slow as **** central defenders. No system can compensate for individual errors.

Liverpool had 4 new signings in their starting XI yesterday, playing in a 3-5-2 formation they've only used a couple of times, we had 2 today. So much more settled than us.
 
if you down play defoe's form due to opposition then please do it for everyone including your golden boy erik 'wow, he should never be criticsed for nothing' lamela.

what you on about mate :lol:

i haven't downplayed Defoe's goal scoring record once, no matter who it's against and re Lamela he's certainly no golden boy of mine - all i have said on the matter is that time and patience are key and it'd be wise not to over analyse his limited time on the pitch whilst he settles in.
 
i was the first guy to say these words

"sandro. first name on the team sheet".....i stand by this to this day

lloris in goal...undisputed keeper for us - Agree

walker. The best of a ****ty set of options for AVB's system.......has to play, unless lennon can show us something that i have no right to think he can show us...in being our version of Lahm (disclaimer...never going to happen and i am just letting my mind go to its base and stupid elements there) - Agree

Dawson....Our own version of D line governing Terry. Very determined, has a knack of being in the right place at the right time. always good for an ariel challenge...very defensively aware - Agree

Vertonghen......our ball player from the back. very much an underrated asset in getting the ball to attcking zones, like the overground getting you to Kings cross ST pancras versus the NOrthern line underground. Also a good defender - If he's fit, I think Kaboul might be a better option. The reason being that Kaboul provides bit of pace, is better in the air than Vertonghen AND he can play a bit. He's not as good a ball player as Vertonghen, but he is fairly comfortable when bringing the ball forwards and sometimes he can get on a proper charge! Him and Daws didn't partner so well all those years ago, but I don't think that would be an issue now, both players with a lot more experience. The mobility that Kaboul has makes for a better balanced partnership. Alternatively, we can play Kaboul with Vertonghen, but my hunch is that Kaboul and Dawson would be more solid. Of course he's got to get fit first!

Rose. The only left back we have that can mimic the kind of width walker provides - Agree

sandro. First name on the team sheet. Playing DM at the base - Agree

Paulinho....Box to box midfielder. Probably the only purhcase we bought who does exactly what it says on the tin. Very solid all round player. really like him - Agree, and I think he and Sandro are a no-brainer partnership for us to create in this team.

Eriksen......from what i can tell he is the only guy we have that 'can' provide that bit of magic in the final third. not that he will always be about that...but he shows he can work that final third like its a job he has done before...as opposed to people being alien to that position. - Agree

right wing forward....Lamela. this is only because of the style AVB wants to play and the fact that lamela doesnt seem to have a right foot thats reliable (from what little i have seen). I've seen enough to know that those hyping him up to the point of deep space nine as to what he would deliver us this season are full of ****, they dont actually know what he will become for sure, they are hoping...completely different, so am i for that matter. what i have seen is actually a mature thinking and good and solid technical player. .....who is extremely intelligent in comparison to the average premier league player. He is quite frankly the best inside right playmaker / forward that we have. This is assuming that his technique on the shot is even 1/4 of what the hype on him is - Agree. We've paid £30m for the guy. Play him in the position that he played to make us part with that money, and let's see what he can do.

Siggy:-Inside left wing forward....the guy's position is sorted. he isnt a playmaker primarily...he CAN do it , but IMO it isnt his best attribute and he can really make the team pendantic and obvious from that position. He is much more a finisher of move's or a final cross / pass kind of guy. Tell him to control our offensive routes to get in behind the defense then all of a sudden he doesnt offer those bottom line stats that make him worth what he should be worth. with siggy these i am always sure we are good for a goal - Agree. We need goal threats in the team and Sig is one. I'm not his biggest fan, but he's probably our best option right now. Although if Lamela started pinging them in, I think we could then afford to play Lennon or Towsend in this position, to pose more of a threat on the counter.

defoe...up front. his movement is better and he works better WITH the team, they dont have to constantly be working FOR him. able to hold up the ball to - Don't agree. For me, Soldado and Adebayor are both infront of Defoe. My GHod, how I now wish we had bought Benteke. We badly lack strength and/or pace in this position, and I think we need a player who can provide us with one or both of these things (as well as the things that a number 9 ought to be good at)

My opinions in Bold.
 
I think that are all too simular, Paulie is the better footballer and Sandro the best defensively, Dembele is a strange one hes strong and can retain possesion but he slows the game down is not creative or a goal threat, all imo though mate, we have to learn from this, patience is a virtue but the way we play is turgid to watch, the answer is Ericksen but he goes missing in games, we miss Rose big time as well.

They are big strong lads. I don't think we should necessarily start all 3, just when need to, I'd like to see us use the three of them to dominate the middle of the park. Chelsea second half we were overrun and exposed, and today we didn't attack well or defend well. If we'd had a defensive midfielder like Sandro (or one of the other 2 sitting deep) it gives licence to the other 2 to get forward into the box and attack crosses, give another option. It also should free up the fullbacks. Not to mention stop 3 goals.

When Eriksen is marked out of the game by big physical sides I'd like to see the heavies deployed. Not much would get past Sandro, Dembele and Paulinho. You could swap Holtby into the 3 for more incision.
 
Seriously. I want to see Sandro back in the first XI. But in place of Dembele or Paulinho? That, I'm not sure yet. I think I prefer Mousa and Sandro.
 
think Paulhino has been marginally the better of the two so far this season so would personally try him and Sandro and see how that pans out.
 
its better than it was in the past AND he gets involved in play AND despite the people he is scoring again..he is our in form striker with a wide range of finishing techniques.

if you down play defoe's form due to opposition then please do it for everyone including your golden boy erik 'wow, he should never be criticsed for nothing' lamela.

as for soldado, boy needs to earn his place. first defoe gets a shot to be the first striker to score from open play after 8 games with solly coming off the bench...then ade....with solly coming off the bench

solly doesnt get in the starting 11 for me. show me something solly my man, i'm not getting analy probed just cause you're a sexy bit of skirt from spain....i'll leave that to people that think if you have an exotic name then you must be good

tbh mate i agree with Billy here...there's no way Defoe has better movement than Soldado and there's absolutely no way Defoe works better with the team than Soldado.

You must remember my constant posts about how limited Soldado's game is before we signed him. Despite it being somewhat limited you learn to appreciate it when you see the sort of ****e Defoe has to offer. Soldado can pick a pass and has excellent movement...Defoe pick a pass? nah he prefers the head down and shoot routine again and again.
 
3 london derbies and 3 games where Paulinho has been poor for me...

Pay close attention to him when he's in possession...he literally stalls for a while and it's so evident he doesn't know wtf he's going to do. It's like he's panicking and wants rid of the ball asap.
 
Although it wasn't Paulinho's best game, he was still getting into excellent goal scoring positions. He didn't finish his chances - 3 or 4 maybe. I think he's actually the best CM we have, as he will score goals and does the rest of his jobs pretty well too.

Dembele most 'dropable' but he does add a lot. What he lacks is goals. When he gets close to the box, he tightens up. Strange as at Fullham he was often played as an attacking midfielder and he's so good on the ball. He should be able to run past defenders - as he does midfielders - and get a shot off. But rarely does he seem to have the confidence or drive to try it.

You could play Dembele on the left in Sig current position or swap Eriksen for Sandro in tough matches where we need more steel in midfield.
 
Whether we like it or not this result has been coming. We've not been anywhere enough ruthless in our games.


i don't buy this line at all -we didn't lose today because we wasn't ruthless we lost today because we were totally toothless...we looked entirely different to the hard working side which closes the opposition down and harries them for the entire game which we have seen for most the season. we were half hearted and not up for the game - something which hasn't been coming at all. a performance totally out of character with what we have seen so far. something which at least has me hopeful that it is nothing more than a blip, which our opponents capitalized on to the fullest
 
The truth is any combination of the four centre mids we have should be quality. But today we were simply out-muscled, out-battled and out-thought.

Seriously a head scratching day that a side with Reid, Tomkins, Nolan, Noble could beat us so convincingly at home. I don't care if it's being disrespectful to West Ham, we were absolutely ******** today, and the players need to realise that there should never be an excuse for being out-fought in a game at home, especially in a derby game.
 
From the moment Michael Dawson couldnt find his friend in the crowd in his pre-match ritual I knew he could have a bad day...
 
i don't buy this line at all -we didn't lose today because we wasn't ruthless we lost today because we were totally toothless...we looked entirely different to the hard working side which closes the opposition down and harries them for the entire game which we have seen for most the season. we were half hearted and not up for the game - something which hasn't been coming at all. a performance totally out of character with what we have seen so far. something which at least has me hopeful that it is nothing more than a blip, which our opponents capitalized on to the fullest

Well said Billy. I truly hope this is the case, and in all honesty I cannot see us repeating this type or level of performance again at home. I expect a big reaction from the team when we next play. Shame it is 2 weeks away.
 
So there's a dispute over who is better between Holtby and Eriksen.

Defoe has been picked to start ahead of Soldado. Paulinho is being thought about as the player to drop to allow a Sandro & Dembele central partnership.

Lamela is being criticised for not meeting expectations.

Chiriches won't displace Vertonghen or Dawson.

Chadli seems to be a bit part player.

Capoue is out injured already.

Did AVB spend the money wisely? I'm not saying that I agree with the points above but those are comments or tactical choices which have either been made, or mooted on this forum.

Is the result today really a demonstration of AVB's failings in the transfer market?
 
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