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Victimpool FC - Klopp leaving, grown men crying

Stouty said:
When is the Heysel enquiry due to release it's recommendations?
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What is it the Liverpool fans want to get out of the releasing of the documentation? they say on some sites that they want the truth! that it will prove that it was not the fault of the liverpool fans and that they have been engulfed in a massive cover up to deflect blame towards them and not the authorities.

I just cant see what they expect to find. From what i know, there was crushing outside the stadium from fans desperate to get into the game. To eleviate that problem they let them into the area next to the stadium which led to them rushing in and crushing the supporters in the middle pens. So there is blame there for everyone. If the fans had not been crushing outside the ground then this would not have lead to the opening of the gates.

Im probably speaking out of turn, i dont know the full facts. So would love for someone to explain exactly what the liverpool fans want to get out of this documentation and how it will make them feel better about it all.
 
The Liverpool fans were essentially blamed for everything. From rioting outside the ground thus forcing people in, to fighting inside the ground and robbing from the dead. All lies.

Only a few years earlier a similar situation occurred when Spurs played at Hillsborough in an FA Cup Semi final yet no lessons were learned.

Read in the article in the Mirror today, it was written by a journo who was there, as a Liverpool supporter that day. Yes there was crushing outside, there was huge traffic problems going into Sheffield compounded by the police doing a lot of roadside stop and searches. Due to this the majority of the 30,000 Liverpool supporters were late to the ground. They were in the older part with inadequate turnstyles (20 I think it was) and kick off was fast approaching. If the police/authorities had delayed the KO then this may not have happened.

To eleviate the crowd, they opened one of the exit gates (that allows for mass exit) and fans poured in. When inside the ground, instead of being funnelled into the seperate pens (there were 5 in the Lepping Lane end), only the middle two were open. People coming in at the back didn't have a clue that those at the front were slowly being crushed to death.

The police thought that it was hooligans in the crowd so they kept the gates at the front, on the fences, closed which meant that noone could escape the crush without climbing the fences. Despite CCTV the police commander refused to open the gates. Even when fences were either opened, climbed or torn down, the police refused to let any ambulances in to treat the injured/dying because they said they were fighting.

Were the supporters to blame, perhaps to the tinyest extent but I fully expect that neither you or I would do anything differently. Those that were in Seville a few years back know what it's like when there is trouble getting in and the police panic.

I think the main issue now is that the coverup was almost as big as the event. The police lied to cover their arses, fed mis-information to the press which stuck and even to this day, people still beleive it.

Today is not just for those 96 who died and the survivors on that day. This is for all of us as football fans. Not one person should go to a match and not return.

Justice for the 96!
 
1244: The PM says the report is "black and white" in concluding "Liverpool fans were not the cause of the disaster".
 
1236: Mr Cameron says the report reveals the shortcoming of the amubulances and emergency services response. He says there was a delay when people were being crushed and killed.
1235: Mr Cameron says many of the reports findings are "deeply distressing".
1234: David Cameron says the families have not heard the truth and have not found justice
 
BREAKING NEWS Mr Cameron says newspapers reported false allegation about the behaviour of fans. He says the report finds flaws in the police operation and new evidence that the police carried out checks on those who had died in order to "impune their reputations".
 
1248: Nick Ravenscroft BBC North of England correspondent Among the headlines from a quick reading reading of the report: The ambulance service failed to implement their major incident plan fully. South Yorkshire police sought to deflect responsibility onto fans. The source of negative stories about fans (including by the Sun newspaper) was a local Sheffield news agency informed by senior police, and a local MP.
Robert Bagrie, Newark, Notts emails: It was very convenient to blame rowdy fooball supporters for the Hillsborough tragedy. Poor policing and strewarding were to blame and I have said this from day one. Nothing I have seen or heard since has altered my opinion.
1247: Mr Miliband says all government's since bear some share of responsibility and apologises on behalf of his party.
1246: Ed Miliband says it "shames us as a country" that it took 23 years to get to the truth.
 
BREAKING NEWS The prime minister makes a "proper apology" to the families of those that have denied. "I am profoundly sorry," he says
 
PaulH said:
BREAKING NEWS Mr Cameron says newspapers reported false allegation about the behaviour of fans. He says the report finds flaws in the police operation and new evidence that the police carried out checks on those who had died in order to "impune their reputations".
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That's their 'victim' status confirmed for the next 50 years
 
ArcspacE said:
That's their 'victim' status confirmed for the next 50 years
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Quite.

I don't understand why common sense isn't being applied here. Clearly the police were wrong to alter the statements, but does that mean a city full of scumbags all clubbed together and started acting like angels for one day only on an away trip? Of course not.
 
Good summary by PaulH is post #2982.

But is there anything in the new report that we didn't know?

We know the Sun invented stories. We know the police covered up their mistakes. We know the Leppings Lane end was a death-trap waiting to happen after previous incidents were ignored. We know that the fans were left to be crushed because police believed it was hooligans in the crowd (which was not an unreasonable assumption given the times) and that ambulances were delayed for similar reasons. Lots of people made mistakes that led of the accident: continued use of Hillsborough by the FA, opening the gate to relieve pressure outside, not directing people to other pens, not allowing fans on the pitch to escape the crushing, and so on. Most of these mistakes were people trying to react to the situation and making bad choices, not an evil plot.

We can have inquiry after inquiry and report after report and the basic facts about the tragedy will remain unchanged. Perhaps a few people can be prosecuted for the the cover up but what will it change? A lot of people went to a football match and didn't return and won't return whatever they do now.
 
scaramanga said:
Quite.

I don't understand why common sense isn't being applied here. Clearly the police were wrong to alter the statements, but does that mean a city full of scumbags all clubbed together and started acting like angels for one day only on an away trip? Of course not.
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No one is saying they acted like angels just they didn't rob the dead and tinkle on the police and they didn't force a gate open.
 
scaramanga said:
Quite.

I don't understand why common sense isn't being applied here. Clearly the police were wrong to alter the statements, but does that mean a city full of scumbags all clubbed together and started acting like angels for one day only on an away trip? Of course not.
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Jesus fudging Christ.

Edit - how do I delete my account? Or could you do it for me please? Thanks.
 
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Modric THFC said:
Because there isn't a shred of evidence any of this happened.
There's enough brick to throw at Liverpool fans and people from Liverpool without having to use Hillsborough.
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You're right about the second point, but there's no way I'll believe that all of those thousands of fans changed habits of a lifetime for a day and then went back to their usual selves the day after - simply doesn't ring true.
 
SandroSays said:
Jesus fudging Christ.

Edit - how do I delete my account? Or could you do it for me please? Thanks.
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How about a comprimise - I'll change your avatar for you:

drama-queen-2.gif
 
I am not a fan of Liverpool, or their supporters, but I really feel for them based on the news that has come out today. Cover up of epic proportions. Yes Liverpool fans acted disgracefully in Heysel, but to make stories up about them urinating on dead bodies is sickening! And for the police to be involved in this cover is frightening! They just assumed that everybody would swallow the lies purely because it was "scummy football fans".
 
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