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UKIP
- Thread starter Gordinho
- Start date
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
The basic problem for the UKIP will be perception vs attention-span.
Unfortunately for the UKIP, they will be (for the most part) tossed in with the EDL and extreme nationalist groups despite the fact they themselves seem to be trying to run on another platform altogether.
The same people who think that Labour are socialists and socialists are communists will, in reverse, view the UKIP as extreme right-wingers on the face of it. Just like radical islamists are seen by some as simply Muslims, and so on and so forth.
IF the UKIP wish to make their agenda and manifesto clear, were I their PR I would absolutely create a message which makes it very clear that it is a party which INCLUDES EVERYONE who understands and accepts the British way of being, and does NOT include extremists.
Personally I find them a bit disingenuous, however IF they are genuine and honest in their intentions, then I would absolutely hope they create a message which clearly, clearly differentiates them from extremist macarons like the EDL.
To be clear, I am not at all saying it's right to bundle them, but I am saying that in the lazy soundbite culture in which we live, it is absolutely the way most people operate (lump 'em all in the same box).
Unfortunately for the UKIP, they will be (for the most part) tossed in with the EDL and extreme nationalist groups despite the fact they themselves seem to be trying to run on another platform altogether.
The same people who think that Labour are socialists and socialists are communists will, in reverse, view the UKIP as extreme right-wingers on the face of it. Just like radical islamists are seen by some as simply Muslims, and so on and so forth.
IF the UKIP wish to make their agenda and manifesto clear, were I their PR I would absolutely create a message which makes it very clear that it is a party which INCLUDES EVERYONE who understands and accepts the British way of being, and does NOT include extremists.
Personally I find them a bit disingenuous, however IF they are genuine and honest in their intentions, then I would absolutely hope they create a message which clearly, clearly differentiates them from extremist macarons like the EDL.
To be clear, I am not at all saying it's right to bundle them, but I am saying that in the lazy soundbite culture in which we live, it is absolutely the way most people operate (lump 'em all in the same box).
Gilzeantoscore
Justin Edinburgh
Oh diddums, all because I said i wouldnt want to meet you in public, you are precious. Ha, ha. I know a good deal more than you, but as I stated in another post... that aint saying much!
Gilzeantoscore
Justin Edinburgh
I would assume that the thoughtfull UKIP voter would be doing so in reaction to a supposed shift by the tories to the centre. These voters advocate a more militant right wing response to issues and have felt let down by the conservatives who are considered to have gone soft re immigration, welfare, law and order etc. They also comprise the 'little Englander' set who want Britain out of the EEC This is why, in the long run at least, I feel they pose more of a threat to the tory vote.
Not just that your overall persona in your posts - lets say you don't come across too well! You know a good deal more than me do ya? :ross: the fact you type that knowing nothing about me speaks wonders (As two people have PMd me to tell me what a taco you come across as!!)
Your post in 64 is laughable too. Ukip aren't a threat at all dear GHod!
Enjoy your day!!!!
AuroRaman
Chris Armstrong
Apologies for taking this completely off-topic, but does this happen a lot between posters (the PM'ing, not the 'taco' bit!)? The reason I ask is because from memory the only times I have ever PM'd or been PM'd is for river purposes or quick messages with a couple of posters on subjects completely unrelated to Spurs or this forum. Reckon I've got less than ten messages in my inbox. Am I missing out on hot PM action?!
Do you think the conservatives have gone soft on those issues?
Crawley
Board Legend
Steff, you have hit the proverbial tickle my balls with a feather there. That is EXACTLY how UKIP are viewed, by those who can not bother to find out the facts.
And yes, it is as you say, the same way that others lump socialists/Labour/ Commies together.
If/when UKIP trend on Twitter, just follow the timeline, and look at the abusive tweets. All it is, is people simply waving the race card at them and very little else.
It all stems from ignorance.
As a UKIP member, I know that they have this rule about no former NF/BNP/EDL members being allowed to join. How you actually stop that I don't know, and I feel to be taken MORE seriously, the leadership need to put something stronger in place.
And as I stated earlier in this thread, there is no way you can control who actually votes for you though, and as such, there will be the ignorant out there who think UKIP are a racist party and vote for them purely for that.
Crawley
Board Legend
Mostly right.
Personally, my early interest in UKIP came purely from a hatred of what the European Union has become/is becoming.
I detest the way we pander to bloated corrupt Euro politicians, but am more upset at how we concentrate our trading with the Eurozone, and dumped so many other worldwide trading partners to do this, especially those in the Commonwealth and beyond.
However, wanting out of the EEC is NOT "Little Englander" syndrome. That was a poor throw-away comment.
UKIP are determined to trade with everyone, especially the developing nations. That is not the sign of a Litte Englander.
Gordinho
Banned
Wasn't Peter Hitchens a member of the Communist Party though? And look at him now, people can and do radically change their views
Crawley
Board Legend
Gilzeantoscore
Justin Edinburgh
Anyone with even a passing knowledge of politics concedes that UKIP pose a threat to the torie's chances of winning seats at the next election, even Crawley a member of UKIP ackowledged that. So I believe that you are the one who is misinformed. I know enough about your political/social views. You have a good day too.
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Gilzeantoscore
Justin Edinburgh
Relative to the views of their more right wing supporter yes.
So you believe that it's the supporters who've moved right rather than the party to the centre? That's pretty much the opposite opinion to every political commentator in the country.
Or were you just playing politics and avoiding saying "Yes" to the fact that the Conservatives have moved to the centre?
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
A fascinating question.
How DO we define the major parties? Do we define them as we remember them from OUR generations, or as they stand NOW?
Thatcher changed the Conservative Party into a more extreme version of it's initial self IMHO. Blair changed the Labour Party to reflect some merge of SDP and New Conservatives. Labour struggled with it's identity post-Bliar and is caught in a massive indentity crisis, afraid to return to core working class values because lets fact it, the working class it once represented has been decimated largely by Thatcherism and modern economics, and as for the Lib-Dems, well, frankly I thought the SDP were one of the worst things to happen to modern politics in so much as they represented a 'liberalism' which hadn't yet fully formed, and the result has been a Lib-Dem Party which is not strong enough to survive on it's own merits.
This has left the country with Cameron, one of the most ineffectual leaders in world politics, and an 'alliance' which struggles so massively with it's identity that it gets caned from all sides.
I see why the UKIP has sprung up. People want options because the two main parties don't know who they are. I personally know some of what the UKIP are about but not enough. I do know that it is very very important that IF they want to be taken seriously as a legitimate political body, they organize and make sure it is very very clear that the Britain they want is INCLUSIVE of EVERYONE who wishes to live a British way of life, in itself worthy of discussion as, frankly, I am not sure what a 'British' way of life is in 2013.
I personally see the average UKIP supporter as someone who just wants a return to some sort of core values in society. Kids being properly raised and taught decent standards. Communities working together and not separating. Extremists told in no uncertain terms that they are NOT welcome here. People being DECENT to each other regardless of race, colour or creed. Thus if the UKIP is a properly-formed organization, it will most certainly take supporters of the major parties. The question remains exactly WHAT the UKIP wants in the long-term. What is their manifesto? What are their social and economic aims? And how do they propose to get them achieved?
I repeat my hope that out of everything which has happened in Woolwich and the days following, that we all recognize that extremists are NOT representative of the larger communities from which they initially sprung. Extreme islam is NOT representative of Muslims and Islam generally, and the EDL is NOT representative of the average, decent British citizen who simply wants to see their homeland free of such extremist behaviours.
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
It's both.
As I went into above, there is no doubt that personality crisis has occurred in all major parties, but equally, as the economic conditions and lack of tangible industry get more disparate, a greater number of society want a reason/a spacegoat to vent at.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
Really? never knew that, the guy makes some good points at times especailly about grammar schools, but im afraid he is to nasty for me, though we do share the same view on liberals.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
Or that socialist or left wing policies like the extension of maternity leave is hurting private business and the people of the country see this and realise with Asia rising we will not be able to compete with the same stanard of social care we have had for the last 20 years and need to realign our expectations.
Gordinho
Banned
Pragmatist or weather vane?
I think you're listening far too much to the noisy minority there. I suspect (and hope) that little of the British public have become extreme with their views on immigration.
In fact, when I spent some time canvassing for the Conservatives nearly 10 years ago opinions were the same. That's one of the reasons I ditched politics (other than voting) for good - I realised that I actually dislike most of the public and their political views - even those who thought theirs were aligned with mine.
Much of what you're seeing/hearing now is the same old views on immigration, just without Labour shouting "racist" at anyone who tries to discuss the issue.