Transfer Rumour Thread

[Raziel]

going to be a very interesting January

If the club truly believes in Poch, they need to back him and make some signings (even thought we traditionally don't), and probably get rid of a couple (statement to players)

Don't think we can afford to wait till summer

 

[braineclipse]

I think those with 18 months left are often more fruitful to pursue. At 18 months left the clubs are getting twitchy and will make deals. But it's not like 6 months left where the players can demand extortionate signing-on fees that are comparable to transfer fees.

Rodriguez and Moreno are the two on 18 months who are obviously of interest to us.

This list shouldn't necessarily be read on face value though. For instance I suspect that we have an option on Ade and will extend his deal by another year or two (even if just to increase his transfer value ahead of a sale).

Also perhaps of interest - Kaboul, Friedel, BAE and Khumalo are our other players out of contract in June, who can sign pre-contracts with foreign clubs in January (I doubt we have options on any of those; Kaboul's we exercised last summer).

Kaboul himself says his contract runs until 2016:

http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/kaboul-clarifies-tottenham-contract-situation-4043394#.VGn29mdvRSA

transfermarkt also has his contract running until 2016.

I agree that wages often get ignored a bit when the value of a free transfer is considered. Depends on the situation, not like all of them would be good deals.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Indian spur - you seem to be implying that Bosmans equate to rich pickings for 'wheeler dealers' or small clubs..... IMO most of those players would improve us instantly - we should be moving in and getting deals done asap

I disagree. We've turned over about 20 players in the last 2 years. We need consistency to achieve cohesion, not more upheaval.

IMO we should only be buying 1 or 2 really special players a year, plus youth prospects. Not more 'value' journeymen.

going to be a very interesting January

If the club truly believes in Poch, they need to back him and make some signings (even thought we traditionally don't), and probably get rid of a couple (statement to players)

Don't think we can afford to wait till summer

Why not? This was always going to be a transition year. Getting back into EL would be a good season, and we're in touch for that.

The only point of getting players in a January is if we can get one of our summer targets in early to help him bed in for 6 months in preparation for next year.

Generally we don't do business in January because there aren't any good players available, unless you pay extortionately over the top.

January might though be a good time to sell the likes of Lennon, Dembele and Kaboul for inflated fees to clubs teetering above relegation (it's less the time to sell the likes of Paulinho and Chiriches who will probably go back abroad).

Kaboul himself says his contract runs until 2016:

http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/kaboul-clarifies-tottenham-contract-situation-4043394#.VGn29mdvRSA

transfermarkt also has his contract running until 2016.

I agree that wages often get ignored a bit when the value of a free transfer is considered. Depends on the situation, not like all of them would be good deals.

Ok, that's interesting. I thought we might keep Kaboul till June while Dier and Fazio bed in and then release him. But if he's still due a salary next season, we need to actively start moving him on.

 

[LCLC]

Tbf gutter boy Milner, Reid, de Jong etc would walk into our first team.

I agree that we need to stop buying journeymen like capoue, Strombouli etc for relatively small fees and based around potential. We have three 5m pound homegrown midfielders in our ranks in bentelab, Carroll and mason who are all competent/very promising players who can be important parts of our squad.

From now on it has to be guys that will improve us without doubt and will be in the team from the word go.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I think those with 18 months left are often more fruitful to pursue. At 18 months left the clubs are getting twitchy and will make deals. But it's not like 6 months left where the players can demand extortionate signing-on fees that are comparable to transfer fees.

Rodriguez and Moreno are the two on 18 months who are obviously of interest to us.

This list shouldn't necessarily be read on face value though. For instance I suspect that we have an option on Ade and will extend his deal by another year or two (even if just to increase his transfer value ahead of a sale).

Also perhaps of interest - Kaboul, Friedel, BAE and Khumalo are our other players out of contract in June, who can sign pre-contracts with foreign clubs in January (I doubt we have options on any of those; Kaboul's we exercised last summer).

I disagree.

Apparently Reid is asking for £70k a week at West Ham. On a 5 year contract that is a total of £17.5 million. Moreno would probably command a transfer fee of close to £10 million and be looking for at least £50k a week in wages. Over the same 5 years that is £22.5 million with at least half of the transfer fee having to be paid up front.

Assuming he comes back from his injury I bet Southampton would still want at least £15 million for Rodruigez. The player would probably also want at least £50k a week. Over 5 years that is £27.5 million. I would imagine that Ayew could probably be brought in for around £60k a week. So approx £18 million over those same 5 years.

All of the bosmans will want salaries that reflect the fact that they are not costing a transfer fee, however in most cases I think they will still represent value for money (especially as there isn't the same up front cost as there is when signing a player for a fee).

In:	Out
Reid	Chiriches
Delph	Paulinho
Milner	Naughton
De Jong	Capoue
Ings	Soldado
Ayew	Lennon

6 signings that could all easily be brought into our club in the Summer on freebies and make a difference.... 4 young, 2 at their peak. 4 possibly even 5) of them would walk into our first team right away and the other one/two would provide us a better squad option that what we have currently.
Every player coming in would be a better option in the team/squad than the one departing
I don't see any of their wages being a problem (although I admit that Milner's would be high).
5 of the 6 players already know what the Premier League is all about (which is a necessity for us at the moment I think).
We'd also probably bring in around £40 million in transfer fees from those departing which we could use to replace Adebayor with Berahino (with lots of change left over).
The wages of that lot above + Berahino would probably be no more than the wages of all the departees.

 

[Raziel]

Why not? This was always going to be a transition year. Getting back into EL would be a good season, and we're in touch for that.

The only point of getting players in a January is if we can get one of our summer targets in early to help him bed in for 6 months in preparation for next year.

Generally we don't do business in January because there aren't any good players available, unless you pay extortionately over the top.

January might though be a good time to sell the likes of Lennon, Dembele and Kaboul for inflated fees to clubs teetering above relegation (it's less the time to sell the likes of Paulinho and Chiriches who will probably go back abroad).

Honestly, don't think we can afford a "transition" year where the holes are so obvious (it's not just an upgrade, form/injury issue)

We need to start to address the balance, I also think the club/team/fans need the little bit of lift an anticipated new player brings.

Also if Poch is really having issues with certain squad members, maybe time to cut them loose.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I disagree.

Apparently Reid is asking for £70k a week at West Ham. On a 5 year contract that is a total of £17.5 million. Moreno would probably command a transfer fee of close to £10 million and be looking for at least £50k a week in wages. Over the same 5 years that is £22.5 million with at least half of the transfer fee having to be paid up front.

Assuming he comes back from his injury I bet Southampton would still want at least £15 million for Rodruigez. The player would probably also want at least £50k a week. Over 5 years that is £27.5 million. I would imagine that Ayew could probably be brought in for around £60k a week. So approx £18 million over those same 5 years.

All of the bosmans will want salaries that reflect the fact that they are not costing a transfer fee, however in most cases I think they will still represent value for money (especially as there isn't the same up front cost as there is when signing a player for a fee).

In: Out
Reid Chiriches
Delph Paulinho
Milner Naughton
De Jong Capoue
Ings Soldado
Ayew Lennon

6 signings that could all easily be brought into our club in the Summer on freebies and make a difference.... 4 young, 2 at their peak.
Every player coming in would be a better option in the team/squad than the one departing
I don't see any of their wages being a problem (although I admit that Milner's would be high).
5 of the 6 players already know what the Premier League is all about (which is a necessity for us at the moment I think).
We'd also probably bring in around £40 million in transfer fees from those departing which we could use to replace Adebayor with Berahino (with lots of change left over).
The wages of that lot above + Berahino would probably be no more than the wages of all the departees.

That's good reasoning on the frees vs non-frees.

But I think it's basically more too much like-for-like unnecessary trading. Most of those you list in your ins and outs are marginal upgrades (I'd disagree about Ings and Soldado). But most of your ins still aren't good enough for our first 11 either.

We need to stop making quantity signings and start making quality signings. Tell Poch that we'll back him with £40-50m for his new spine - Schneiderlin, Rodriguez and Moreno - but that's all he's allowed for the next 3 years (like Redknapp and his first January). Everything afterwards needs to come from the academy or be nominal fee youngsters.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Honestly, don't think we can afford a "transition" year where the holes are so obvious (it's not just an upgrade, form/injury issue)

We need to start to address the balance, I also think the club/team/fans need the little bit of lift an anticipated new player brings.

Also if Poch is really having issues with certain squad members, maybe time to cut them loose.

What I meant more is that we're already doing things too fast. We're transitioning this season because we've turnover 20 players in the last few years. We should have done things more gradually (esp. starting building a successor team in c.2010-12).

IMO the turnover of players is the problem, not the solution.

Let Poch coach this raw lot, with a sprinkling or 1-3 key individuals. Not 6-7 new faces who will never settle and be turned over again and again.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Patrick Herrmann

Someone give Levy Finney Is Backs phone number!

 

[milo]

What I meant more is that we're already doing things too fast. We're transitioning this season because we've turnover 20 players in the last few years. We should have done things more gradually (esp. starting building a successor team in c.2010-12).

IMO the turnover of players is the problem, not the solution.

Let Poch coach this raw lot, with a sprinkling or 1-3 key individuals. Not 6-7 new faces who will never settle and be turned over again and again.

The problem with that is that there are several reliable reports that Poch does not think that the players are up for it and are mentally weak.

That would suggest that after having time to assess the players, he think significant changes are necessary.

 

[Raziel]

GB, I don't think it's 6 or 7, that would always be a mistake

But I could see (example) = Paulinho/Dembele/Ade out, with a Creative midfielder/Striker in, 3 out, 2 in

The club really needs a lift, a good buy in January could really help that.

 

[Gutter Boy]

The problem with that is that there are several reliable reports that Poch does not think that the players are up for it and are mentally weak.

That would suggest that after having time to assess the players, he think significant changes are necessary.

I don't remember seeing one of those. Just the usual **** stirrers who hate DoFs (Jiggins, Ashton, Samuel)

I thought Poch fancied himself was a proper serious coach, who could build players, not just buy them in?

 

[milo]

I don't remember seeing one of those. Just the usual **** stirrers who hate DoFs (Jiggins, Ashton, Samuel)

I thought Poch fancied himself was a proper serious coach, who could build players, not just buy them in?

I will try to dig them out later.

I think that there are limits to what even the best coaches can do. If the players lack mental strength and natural leaders that is very hard to instill, particularly when results are not going your way.

 

[Gutter Boy]

GB, I don't think it's 6 or 7, that would always be a mistake

But I could see (example) = Paulinho/Dembele/Ade out, with a Creative midfielder/Striker in, 3 out, 2 in

The club really needs a lift, a good buy in January could really help that.

I wouldn't mind 1 big name player from Poch's A list (there won't be the time or resource to do more than one) - one of Rodriguez, Schneiderlin or Moreno, with more than one of Paulinho, Chiriches, Dembele or Lennon making way/raising funds.

Remember how bad signings can equally demoralise though e.g. the Nelsen/Saha, Pienaar or Danny Murphy January windows. Nothing (like the last 2 Januarys) is better than sending the wrong messages.

 

[Mumorn]

I want winners. De Jong is a winner. I'd love him.

 

[Modric THFC]

Are people expecting signings in January really?


We dont do real business in January anymore.
2014 - No one
2013 - Holtby and Fryers
2012 - Saha and Nelson
2011 - Peinaar and Khumalo

 

[Jordinho]

Are people expecting signings in January really?


We dont do real business in January anymore.
2014 - No one
2013 - Holtby and Fryers
2012 - Saha and Nelson
2011 - Peinaar and Khumalo

Nobody do unless they're desperate.

 

[braineclipse]

I disagree.

Apparently Reid is asking for £70k a week at West Ham. On a 5 year contract that is a total of £17.5 million. Moreno would probably command a transfer fee of close to £10 million and be looking for at least £50k a week in wages. Over the same 5 years that is £22.5 million with at least half of the transfer fee having to be paid up front.

Assuming he comes back from his injury I bet Southampton would still want at least £15 million for Rodruigez. The player would probably also want at least £50k a week. Over 5 years that is £27.5 million. I would imagine that Ayew could probably be brought in for around £60k a week. So approx £18 million over those same 5 years.

All of the bosmans will want salaries that reflect the fact that they are not costing a transfer fee, however in most cases I think they will still represent value for money (especially as there isn't the same up front cost as there is when signing a player for a fee).

That ignores agent fees and sign on/loyalty bonuses though. Likely to be inflated significantly if a player is on a free.

The increased wages are also an issue in other ways. Other players hear that someone else at the club is getting significantly more than them they will start asking for more in their negotiations. 2-3 years down the line if we're looking to renew a contract it will be a lot easier with a £50k p/w starting point instead of a £70k starting point. One of the reasons we were able to convince Modric to sign a new 6 year deal was that his initial wages were fairly low, meaning that we could offer him a massive bump in pay to sign an extension.

I'm absolutely certain that there are and will be free transfer deals that make a lot of sense. I wouldn't be shocked if Reid accepted less money for us than he's asking for at West Ham for example.

But I also think GB makes a solid point, the "free" transfer deals won't always make sense and sometimes at least deals for players with more left on their contracts will be better.

In:	Out
Reid	Chiriches
Delph	Paulinho
Milner	Naughton
De Jong	Capoue
Ings	Soldado
Ayew	Lennon

6 signings that could all easily be brought into our club in the Summer on freebies and make a difference.... 4 young, 2 at their peak. 4 possibly even 5) of them would walk into our first team right away and the other one/two would provide us a better squad option that what we have currently.
Every player coming in would be a better option in the team/squad than the one departing
I don't see any of their wages being a problem (although I admit that Milner's would be high).
5 of the 6 players already know what the Premier League is all about (which is a necessity for us at the moment I think).
We'd also probably bring in around £40 million in transfer fees from those departing which we could use to replace Adebayor with Berahino (with lots of change left over).
The wages of that lot above + Berahino would probably be no more than the wages of all the departees.

I would be very surprised if we saw that much action in January. Delph, Milner and De Jong also seems like a bit of an overkill. If we could get only Milner out of those I would be quite happy.

 

[braineclipse]

I don't remember seeing one of those. Just the usual **** stirrers who hate DoFs (Jiggins, Ashton, Samuel)

I thought Poch fancied himself was a proper serious coach, who could build players, not just buy them in?

You still need the right type of player for the system and players that buy into his philosophy.

I've long thought there's been an attitude problem at the club, wouldn't be surprised if some of the reports are correct. Won't be surprised if we have to go through some conflicts as players without the right mentality are sifted out.

 

[DubaiSpur]

I wouldn't mind 1 big name player from Poch's A list (there won't be the time or resource to do more than one) - one of Rodriguez, Schneiderlin or Moreno, with more than one of Paulinho, Chiriches, Dembele or Lennon making way/raising funds.

Remember how bad signings can equally demoralise though e.g. the Nelsen/Saha, Pienaar or Danny Murphy January windows. Nothing (like the last 2 Januarys) is better than sending the wrong messages.

I would argue that doing nothing sends as bad a message as signing Nelsen/Saha did, with the situation we're in: other than that, I largely agree with you.