Tottenham Vs Arsenal Player ratings.

[DHSF]

Apologies for being a downer, but this game has really highlighted my concerns. The win and the spirit was unbelievable, but I have to say that I'm worried by how consistently we are outpassed-and-moved in games - not just against the classy sides like Arsenal, but even midtable teams for long stretches of a match. We constantly seem to struggle to craft some cohesion in midfield, much less the fast and fluid one-touch kind; it's like we've never even heard of triangles or one-twos (though thankfully we finally showed we actually do have a throughball THANK GHod). And I just can't figure out why, because it's not like we have donkeys without technique in our team. I don't think it's AVB or the coaches or our movement alone, I think a large part of it is that our players' standout qualities aren't passing-related so we're lacking in those Xavi-esque players who truly live and breath Pass and Move. You could say Swansea's players are not as "good" as us individual to individual, and yet they are firmly grounded in this philosophy.

It's not just about "attractiveness" for me; I don't really care if we play pretty football, but I think there is a close association between comfort on the ball and results in the long run. For me our form resembles Saudi Sportswashing Machine of last season or Villa a few seasons ago a little too much for my liking - as a counterattacking team with a firm defense we'll get results, but they'll be hard-fought single-goal victories until we figure out a way to develop a coherent passing game. That's why Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Villa's runs couldn't last; that's why goal difference is so closely associated with league position. We can still finish top four this season, but I don't think we are merely a super-striker away from becoming a top-class team. I'm focusing on Levy and the scouts as much as AVB!

I agree totally. We were outpassed today and im not sure if it AVBs intentions to let them have the ball and we hit on the counter or we are actually not that good at keeping possession. I think we have, no pun intended, bailed out the last few games and we have actually been lucky. I was discussing it that if Mourinho is the special one then AVB is the Lucky One as he has been lucky thus far.

I think we are a super striker and a Moutinho/Modric type player away fom challenging for the title. Now whether Levy is prepared to be ambitious enough is another matter entirely I suppose.

 

[Spursalot]

Apologies for being a downer, but this game has really highlighted my concerns. The win and the spirit was unbelievable, but I have to say that I'm worried by how consistently we are outpassed-and-moved in games - not just against the classy sides like Arsenal, but even midtable teams for long stretches of a match. We constantly seem to struggle to craft some cohesion in midfield, much less the fast and fluid one-touch kind; it's like we've never even heard of triangles or one-twos (though thankfully we finally showed we actually do have a throughball THANK GHod). And I just can't figure out why, because it's not like we have donkeys without technique in our team. I don't think it's AVB or the coaches or our movement alone, I think a large part of it is that our players' standout qualities aren't passing-related so we're lacking in those Xavi-esque players who truly live and breath Pass and Move. You could say Swansea's players are not as "good" as us individual to individual, and yet they are firmly grounded in this philosophy.

It's not just about "attractiveness" for me; I don't really care if we play pretty football, but I think there is a close association between comfort on the ball and results in the long run. For me our form resembles Saudi Sportswashing Machine of last season or Villa a few seasons ago a little too much for my liking - as a counterattacking team with a firm defense we'll get results, but they'll be hard-fought single-goal victories until we figure out a way to develop a coherent passing game. That's why Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Villa's runs couldn't last; that's why goal difference is so closely associated with league position. We can still finish top four this season, but I don't think we are merely a super-striker away from becoming a top-class team. I'm focusing on Levy and the scouts as much as AVB!

The long run?

You mean like over the last twelve games for instance?

 

[thfcsteff]

I had prepared a rant, but fudge it, why bother getting dragged in?

For those who continue to BORE ON about NEGATIVES I can only hope that at some point, you will learn to

a) see a bigger picture and
b) relax enough to enjoy what's happening.

 

[Spursalot]

I agree totally. We were outpassed today and im not sure if it AVBs intentions to let them have the ball and we hit on the counter or we are actually not that good at keeping possession. I think we have, no pun intended, bailed out the last few games and we have actually been lucky. I was discussing it that if Mourinho is the special one then AVB is the Lucky One as he has been lucky thus far.

I think we are a super striker and a Moutinho/Modric type player away fom challenging for the title. Now whether Levy is prepared to be ambitious enough is another matter entirely I suppose.

'Outpassed'..


Is a bit of a redundant term in my mind. Arsenal had a lot of the ball, sure. Did they actually do much with it though? No, not particularly.



AVB is lucky?

28 games into the season and the only reason we are where we are is due to luck? That's fudging laughable.

 

[Crawley]

Quite.

We were not "outpassed".

To me, it was quite obvious as the game progressed, what we were doing. Letting them have the ball, pass themselves silly, and then meet a brick wall which they really struggled to break down.
Meanwhile, we soaked it up then broke. Simples.

 

[Rossi22]

We will never out pass Arsenal, just like Madrid will never out pass Barca. That's not the only way of playing football though, as three wins in the last week for the non-passers has showed.

 

[Pirate55]

Lloris 8 - Feel so confident with him in goal. So solid!

Walker 7 - Best game fron him in a while.
Dawson 8 - Some great tackles. Didn't put a foot wrong.
Vertonghen 9 - MOM! Awesome, so composed on the ball.
Ekotto 7 - His casualness does worry me.

Lennon 7 - Took his goal well.
Sig 7 - Great assist but should have scored.
Parker 7 - Did great for the 2nd goal, but wasteful in possession.
Dembele 7 - Much better from him today.
Bale 8 - Great finish for the goal. Not quite at his best but still clinical.

Ade 5 - His head has gone! Didn't he learn from the last NLD?

Defoe 6.5 - Good to have a forward back who can hold the ball up and offers far more than the other bloke.
Livermore N/A

+1. Spot on and the comments too. Ade was a liability the whole time he was on the pitch - needless offsides (again), poor hold up play. lost his man for their goal and generally totally useless. His lack of competiveness was given sharp relief by how much Defoe was involved in his short time on the pitch - he even got in a shot and should have had an assist too. Shock horror - this is what should we expect from a forward being paid north of £80k per week not the shambolic wanderings of that pale imitation of what was once a great striker!

 

[diego_maradona]

To be fair, I totally get what skyfarer is getting at. But I think today for me was largely down to numbers once again, and how we were horribly outnumbered once again in the CM area. I think it was a calculated gamble that if Arsenal deploy their usual 3 in the middle as they did, Bale would get time and space to exploit. But it was a similar pattern in the 2-1 last season where until we threw Sandro on to balance the midfield battle we were being overrun. I think you would have seen a different pattern had we a trio of Dembele, Sandro and Holtby in midfield today. Having said that, the pass and move traditional philosophy of the club is missed on players like Parker and Dembele who don't particularly possess those as part of their make up, well at least not such strong pass and go type players.

Lennon and Bale also are not your Cazorla, Wheelchair type players who are comfortable in possession. But I don't feel we need a whole new team to exercise that sort of control. A midfield maestro not too dissimilar to Modric or Moutinho as DHSF says would for me be enough to act as a fulcrum to the side to get the ball to the dangermen and exercise a certain degree of control on most games. I do have high hopes for Holtby in all honesty.

 

[thfcsteff]

Apologies for being a downer, but this game has really highlighted my concerns. The win and the spirit was unbelievable, but I have to say that I'm worried by how consistently we are outpassed-and-moved in games - not just against the classy sides like Arsenal, but even midtable teams for long stretches of a match. We constantly seem to struggle to craft some cohesion in midfield, much less the fast and fluid one-touch kind; it's like we've never even heard of triangles or one-twos (though thankfully we finally showed we actually do have a throughball THANK GHod). And I just can't figure out why, because it's not like we have donkeys without technique in our team. I don't think it's AVB or the coaches or our movement alone, I think a large part of it is that our players' standout qualities aren't passing-related so we're lacking in those Xavi-esque players who truly live and breath Pass and Move. You could say Swansea's players are not as "good" as us individual to individual, and yet they are firmly grounded in this philosophy.

It's not just about "attractiveness" for me; I don't really care if we play pretty football, but I think there is a close association between comfort on the ball and results in the long run. For me our form resembles Saudi Sportswashing Machine of last season or Villa a few seasons ago a little too much for my liking - as a counterattacking team with a firm defense we'll get results, but they'll be hard-fought single-goal victories until we figure out a way to develop a coherent passing game. That's why Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Villa's runs couldn't last; that's why goal difference is so closely associated with league position. We can still finish top four this season, but I don't think we are merely a super-striker away from becoming a top-class team. I'm focusing on Levy and the scouts as much as AVB!

I'm sorry, IMO you're missing a few very important points.

1) This side has just come through 3 seasons of it's game revolving around Luka Modric and Rafa Van der Vaart.

2) This side is still 'in progress'.

3) This side is missing it's key midfielder of the season.

4) Today's game was precisely the sort of game which happened the other way around years ago. Lots of possession, hardly any incisive finishing, bing-bang-bosh, two goals. Again, it used to happen the other way.

On papar, Wheelchair, Cazola and Arteta are stronger than our midfield. So it proved for 30 mins. But if we hadn't missed our customary two raging sitters today, the score could've been 4-1.

I think your biggest error here Sky is allowing yourself to believe that the manager's resting ambition is this squad. He will upgrade and he will continue our development. It's a project. Have some faith!

 

[thfcsteff]

+1. Spot on and the comments too. Ade was a liability the whole time he was on the pitch - needless offsides (again), poor hold up play. lost his man for their goal and generally totally useless. His lack of competiveness was given sharp relief by how much Defoe was involved in his short time on the pitch - he even got in a shot and should have had an assist too. Shock horror - this is what should we expect from a forward being paid north of £80k per week not the shambolic wanderings of that pale imitation of what was once a great striker!

Amidst your frankly pathological slagging of one player once again mate, did you notice the score today?

 

[Eternal Spur]

Quite.

We were not "outpassed".

To me, it was quite obvious as the game progressed, what we were doing. Letting them have the ball, pass themselves silly, and then meet a brick wall which they really struggled to break down.
Meanwhile, we soaked it up then broke. Simples.

Precisely. Try to play them at their own game and we would have risked creating spaces for them to exploit and we would not have been as solid.

As it was, we played to our strengths, soaking up the pressure - let's be honest, they hardly penetrated our defence and their goal was a simple set piece rather than as a result of outpassing us... To the contrary, we created all the chances and on another day Siggy and Bale would have made the scoreline a lot more comfortable.

 

[thfcsteff]

To be fair, I totally get what skyfarer is getting at. But I think today for me was largely down to numbers once again, and how we were horribly outnumbered once again in the CM area. I think it was a calculated gamble that if Arsenal deploy their usual 3 in the middle as they did, Bale would get time and space to exploit. But it was a similar pattern in the 2-1 last season where until we threw Sandro on to balance the midfield battle we were being overrun. I think you would have seen a different pattern had we a trio of Dembele, Sandro and Holtby in midfield today. Having said that, the pass and move traditional philosophy of the club is missed on players like Parker and Dembele who don't particularly possess those as part of their make up, well at least not such strong pass and go type players.

Lennon and Bale also are not your Cazorla, Wheelchair type players who are comfortable in possession. But I don't feel we need a whole new team to exercise that sort of control. A midfield maestro not too dissimilar to Modric or Moutinho as DHSF says would for me be enough to act as a fulcrum to the side to get the ball to the dangermen and exercise a certain degree of control on most games. I do have high hopes for Holtby in all honesty.

I addressed my thoughts on sky's thoughtful and earnest post.

My initial post up there was in reference to the digital attack which continues to reign in on one player game after game, and how frankly fudging tedious its becoming. It's tiresome (I won't even say what I really think of it)...

 

[diego_maradona]

Its not looking great for Ade with the crowd and most of the comments I heard directed at him for most of the game. For me he's not showing the same strength we so often saw against us. Also to be fair to him I thought Arteta in particular got away with a lot of fouling on Ade today. How often did he and Vermaelen just grapple him. I want him to be that confident beast again who is simply a nightmare to contain.

 

[AdamB]

Apologies for being a downer, but this game has really highlighted my concerns. The win and the spirit was unbelievable, but I have to say that I'm worried by how consistently we are outpassed-and-moved in games - not just against the classy sides like Arsenal, but even midtable teams for long stretches of a match. We constantly seem to struggle to craft some cohesion in midfield, much less the fast and fluid one-touch kind; it's like we've never even heard of triangles or one-twos (though thankfully we finally showed we actually do have a throughball THANK GHod). And I just can't figure out why, because it's not like we have donkeys without technique in our team. I don't think it's AVB or the coaches or our movement alone, I think a large part of it is that our players' standout qualities aren't passing-related so we're lacking in those Xavi-esque players who truly live and breath Pass and Move. You could say Swansea's players are not as "good" as us individual to individual, and yet they are firmly grounded in this philosophy.

It's not just about "attractiveness" for me; I don't really care if we play pretty football, but I think there is a close association between comfort on the ball and results in the long run. For me our form resembles Saudi Sportswashing Machine of last season or Villa a few seasons ago a little too much for my liking - as a counterattacking team with a firm defense we'll get results, but they'll be hard-fought single-goal victories until we figure out a way to develop a coherent passing game. That's why Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Villa's runs couldn't last; that's why goal difference is so closely associated with league position. We can still finish top four this season, but I don't think we are merely a super-striker away from becoming a top-class team. I'm focusing on Levy and the scouts as much as AVB!

Think the reason we were outpassed is simply that it took 60 mins for AVB to tell Bale to pick up their deepest CM when we didnt have the ball. Before that moment you have Parker and Dembele trying to take their 3 CMs

 

[DHSF]

'Outpassed'..


Is a bit of a redundant term in my mind. Arsenal had a lot of the ball, sure. Did they actually do much with it though? No, not particularly.



AVB is lucky?

28 games into the season and the only reason we are where we are is due to luck? That's fudging laughable.

They did have more possession but actually they didnt do anything with it - so it was no bad thing. I dont know the stats and dont care but im sure the stats would indicate that they had the larger share of the possession. We do need to retain the ball better and thats just something to improve on.

You guys who dont see the 'negatives' are not seeing 'areas that need improvement'. Its not a negative - its pointing out the area to improve on. I am sure AVB sees areas of improvement rather than having his head in the sand.

Crawley - I agree it was obvious - we let them have the ball and thats what I alluded to as they lacked that killer instinct however they did outpass us as in our passing isnt that great. Actually we are more effective than Arsenal - Arsenal play tippy tappy football where as we are incisive and far more effective when we have the ball.

Theyre better at keeping the ball we are better at creating clear cut chances. That indicates that we need to improve our retention of the ball which is evident. They need to improve their incisiveness.

 

[thfcsteff]

Its not looking great for Ade with the crowd and most of the comments I heard directed at him for most of the game. For me he's not showing the same strength we so often saw against us. Also to be fair to him I thought Arteta in particular got away with a lot of fouling on Ade today. How often did he and Vermaelen just grapple him. I want him to be that confident beast again who is simply a nightmare to contain.

he was repeatedly kicked, nudged and shoved around today, first time he tries to win a ball ramsey does a triple roll a la Cazorla and effectively halves his game. we've discussed how the away support is far more aware generally (ours) and thus he does not get the caning he tends to from the moaners at home.

 

[Pirate55]

Delighted with the result.

And frankly getting tired of your unremitting defence of a plainly useless Ade. Start watching the game with unblinkered eyes - or even see that Ade scored the lowest by virtually everyone on this board for todays typical non performance.,

 

[thfcsteff]

They did have more possession but actually they didnt do anything with it - so it was no bad thing. I dont know the stats and dont care but im sure the stats would indicate that they had the larger share of the possession. We do need to retain the ball better and thats just something to improve on.

You guys who dont see the 'negatives' are not seeing 'areas that need improvement'. Its not a negative - its pointing out the area to improve on. I am sure AVB sees areas of improvement rather than having his head in the sand.

Crawley - I agree it was obvious - we let them have the ball and thats what I alluded to as they lacked that killer instinct however they did outpass us as in our passing isnt that great. Actually we are more effective than Arsenal - Arsenal play tippy tappy football where as we are incisive and far more effective when we have the ball.

Theyre better at keeping the ball we are better at creating clear cut chances. That indicates that we need to improve our retention of the ball which is evident. They need to improve their incisiveness.

No no, you're wrong. We see where there are improvements to be made, just like we did early doors this season when everyone was whinging on and on and on. We SEE THEM we just understand that we have a manager who not only sees them but rectifys them as he can, and when he can't, adapts the system to suit the strengths he DOES have at his disposal. Thus I frankly don't see the point of hammering every little thing we need to improve upon. Because overall, he's done a great job so far...

 

[DHSF]

I addressed my thoughts on sky's thoughtful and earnest post.

My initial post up there was in reference to the digital attack which continues to reign in on one player game after game, and how frankly fudging tedious its becoming. It's tiresome (I won't even say what I really think of it)...

Im assuming thats Adebayor. I am going off on a tangent but if im paying a vast amount of money the least I expect is a bit of effort. I forgive if a player is actually poor and will forgive if a player misses the odd pass but seriously the guy is not putting in as much effort as a numbe ro fother players out there. Look at Lennon for example in the 90th minute.

I dont have my head buried in the sand - we won great im over the fudging moon - however it doesnt and certainly shouldnt prevent hghlighting weakness. I can wait till tomorrow to talk about it because im sure AVB will, as any Manager would, also think both positives and negatives i.e. areas to be improved on.

People are happy to jump on others who highlight ares to improve but theyre doing the exact same thing that people are accused of doing - jumping on Ade's back. I agree it is tedious - the performances and lack of effort that is.

 

[DHSF]

No no, you're wrong. We see where there are improvements to be made, just like we did early doors this season when everyone was whinging on and on and on. We SEE THEM we just understand that we have a manager who not only sees them but rectifys them as he can, and when he can't, adapts the system to suit the strengths he DOES have at his disposal. Thus I frankly don't see the point of hammering every little thing we need to improve upon. Because overall, he's done a great job so far...

He has - and I hold my hands up like I have done when I have been wrong. AVB has definitely impressed me both ON and OFF the pitch. Exactly and no one is criticisng him. Your point in the post assumes that we are whinging at AVB when it clearly isnt.