Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[Rossi22]

Re: Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?

Pulis can be regarded as good/excellent at what he does because he's done it before. All he's doing at Palace is continuing the same excellent (evil) work he was doing at Stoke.

You can't say that for Timmeh unless you know how good the tea he made Levy was and how neat the paperwork on the loans to Swindon deals were.

So you can only get credit if you're repeating something you've done before, right. Let's say Tim gets the job for next season and gets us into the top four or wins us the league, would you give him credit? Or would you claim he's just benefited from St. Andre's hard work and how AVB would've won it more comfortably? Somehow, I think it would be the latter.

 

[Rossi22]

Re: Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?

asides from a select few i think most people think his ppg at Spurs is very good, the debate as far as i see it isn't 'has he done well here?' - it's 'is he good enough to get the job going in to next season?' - and to answer that question you have to look way beyond a 20 game ppg stat

That's not it though, plenty on here blame Sherwood for this season.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?

So you can only get credit if you're repeating something you've done before, right. Let's say Tim gets the job for next season and gets us into the top or wins us the league, would you give him credit? Or would you claim he's just benefited from St. Andre's hard work and how AVB would've won it more comfortably? Somehow, I think it would be the latter.

After a season and a half that would be a big enough sample size for a YTS boy - he'd get credit.

I can confidently say that I won't have to though.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?

How about Tony Pulis then? He's been in charge of Palace for 23 games(three more than Sherwood), does he deserve no credit for what he's done at Palace then? Too small a sample size? There's nothing to say Holloway wouldn't have done the same or better? When does the sample size become relevant? Also when did AVB's unsettled team become settled? Let me guess, right after he was sacked?

Look, I don't want Tim next season either but you lot are funny, you staunchly defend your side of the argument and will reject anything thrown at you. Are there any reasonably objective posters on here? Are there any others on here like me who don't want Tim for various reasons but at the same time can give him credit for him statistically having us as the 4th best side since he took over? Why does being against Sherwood mean we have to be pro AVB? Can't we see the good and bad in both? No, ok, carry on then.

I've asked this to Scaramanga on two occasions with no response.

Scaramanga (and others) clearly stated that it will take a season (or possibly even more) for our new signings to become settled when AVB was in charge. As soon as Tim has come in he's now stating we have a "settled squad". I find it weird.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?

I've asked this to Scaramanga on two occasions with no response.

Scaramanga (and others) clearly stated that it will take a season (or possibly even more) for our new signings to become settled when AVB was in charge. As soon as Tim has come in he's now stating we have a "settled squad". I find it weird.

Actually I said that it would take that time for a team to settle and for a manager to implement a system of play.

If a manager pours scorn on a system method of.management he doesn't get that extra time as he has effectively said he doesn't need it.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?

That's not it though, plenty on here blame Sherwood for this season.

you think so? we had minimal chance of making top 4 when he took charge so id like to see who actually thinks he is at fault for us not doing so...


my view is that we would be a more settled side at the end of this season had AVB stayed by way of him having a whole season with the squad, but i very much doubt we'd be any closer to the top 4 than we currently find ourselves

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?

Actually I said that it would take that time for a team to settle and for a manager to implement a system of play.

If a manager pours scorn on a system method of.management he doesn't get that extra time as he has effectively said he doesn't need it.

ohhhhh nooooo you didn't scaramanga.

Well no that's unfair, you did say what you said but you also said (and i'm 100% sure of this) that new players from abroad take a year or more to get accustomed to the premier league thus we wouldn't have a settled squad until next season. You said you would give AVB as much time as he needed REGARDLESS of results or where we finish because of this. I then pushed you and said you'd still be ok with a 10th placed finish...you said again that you won't judge him due to the system he is trying to implement AND the fact that new foreign signings need a season or more to settle.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?

ohhhhh nooooo you didn't scaramanga.

Well no that's unfair, you did say what you said but you also said (and i'm 100% sure of this) that new players from abroad take a year or more to get accustomed to the premier league thus we wouldn't have a settled squad until next season. You said you would give AVB as much time as he needed REGARDLESS of results or where we finish because of this. I then pushed you and said you'd still be ok with a 10th placed finish...you said again that you won't judge him due to the system he is trying to implement AND the fact that new foreign signings need a season or more to settle.

I stand to be corrected, but I'd be very surprised if I did say that. The reason being that the acclimatisation time isn't my opinion - I don't really have one either way. I just go on the general opinion in football where the concensus seems to be pretty tight around 6 months.

Now I remember saying a season or even more. And I do know that my belief is that it takes at least 6 months (if not more) for a coach to settle a system in. So it would logically follow that no more than 6 months of that time could have been acclimatisation for the players.

Looking from another angle. Regardless of how long I think (or anyone else thinks) players need to settle, do you think Timmeh is suffering from a team still acclimatising to the PL? I don't think he is.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?

No it was definitely not 6 months you stated because the later parts of our conversation was regarding a 10th placed finish to which you said you would still stick with him because of the reasons stated above. You 100% also spoke about the need of foreign players to adopt to the league and it takes a year or more to settle.

I take this debating **** seriously and remember EVERYTHING mate

 

[Kenyan Spur]

Re: Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?

I'm sorry, but did you watch the game against Stoke? We ended up with a midfield three of Siggy, Paulinho and Eriksen whilst attempting to hold a one goal advantage and being completely and utterly overrun.

It takes management of epically bad proportions to allow the state of the game to come to that dire situation against a 10 man Stoke. We had TWO midfielders on the bench (arguably three) who would have been perfect to stabilise the situation.

We did absolutely EVERYTHING wrong against 10 men, everything, and that is 100% a product of appalling management.

Your reading of the stats in this instance is bordering on farcical I'm afraid. If you think Chadli and Paulinho in a midfield two is best we can manage with our resources, if you think Sherwood has represented the club in a good, professional manner so far, if you like managers who opt to sit in the stands (when for everyone else its actually a punishment) then words fail me.

Great post. Dim OUT NOW.

 

[Superhudd]

Re: Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?

It means absolutely nothing unless.. AVB continued managing Tottenham in some parallel universe whereby he was put in the exact same situations as Tim Sherwood.

its one of the many reasons why I am not a fan of stats when comparing.

 

[chancer]

Re: Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?

All of that second group have far more experience than Timmeh and have shown that at some point in their careers they can at least attempt to put in place a credible plan for management.

But the problem is you still can't go to that list and pick a name you want. Or can you? If so, please do.

Because I'd really love to hear the case for any of those guys being given 3 seasons of our emotional commitment, several tens of millions of £'s to spend and power over the future shape of our squad for years to come, whilst at the same time blocking the job from the likes of de Boer, FSW or Ancelotti if those boys become available.

And I don't buy the "It's not my job to know who in world football suits" line. This is nonsense. If you want Sherwood out you have quite enough knowledge to make at least a reasoned layman's case for a replacement. Nobody is asking for professional, DoF, Anusman levels of knowledge - just a brief outline in fanspeak.

 

[Kenyan Spur]

Re: Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?

No I do not want him to stay on, I do not actually want him at the club at all. I can not believe in this day in age when even a dinosaur like me knows about public relations that this guy can be so poor with the media. The media and interaction with them plays a large part of the modern managers job and Sherwood lacks that understanding.

On the football side of things though he has not been a disaster he has shown to be severely lacking in tactics when it comes to the top teams, his predecessor was not a whole lot better either so it is something I would like to see more of in our next appointment.

His football philosophy is a strange one because the way he sets out our midfield is bizarre, add to that how we have started games and the number of mistakes our players make, Sherwood is not up to the job he had his chance he should move elsewhere and learn his trade.

Great post Chic , Tunisia Spur.

I know he has done ok on the field. However, I think that is not really because of him.

My biggest problem with him is the PR side, which you mention.

He is an embarrassment. I want him OUT.

 

[Kenyan Spur]

Re: Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?

How about Tony Pulis then? He's been in charge of Palace for 23 games(three more than Sherwood), does he deserve no credit for what he's done at Palace then? Too small a sample size? There's nothing to say Holloway wouldn't have done the same or better? When does the sample size become relevant? Also when did AVB's unsettled team become settled? Let me guess, right after he was sacked?

Look, I don't want Tim next season either but you lot are funny, you staunchly defend your side of the argument and will reject anything thrown at you. Are there any reasonably objective posters on here? Are there any others on here like me who don't want Tim for various reasons but at the same time can give him credit for him statistically having us as the 4th best side since he took over? Why does being against Sherwood mean we have to be pro AVB? Can't we see the good and bad in both? No, ok, carry on then.

I have no problem with Dim's Stats. He has done well.
I don't want Dim at the club, and that is NOT because I am pro AVB. I have never been.

There are just TOO many things about DIM that I cannot accept in any Spurs manager.
And these are not necessarily related to the football side.

 

[sc25]

Re: Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?

Shows how weak the opposition were. We had the incorrect starting line up, played badly, made the wrong subs. We won despite Sherwood's best efforts, not because of them.

That's pure conjecture. Fact is, we won with that line up and those subs. Its also a fact that nobody knows if we'd have beat Stoke with your lineup and subs. We may have, or we may not have.
BTW, not sure how 'weak' Stoke are but they are in 10th and have been on a good run.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?

But the problem is you still can't go to that list and pick a name you want. Or can you? If so, please do.

Because I'd really love to hear the case for any of those guys being given 3 seasons of our emotional commitment, several tens of millions of £'s to spend and power over the future shape of our squad for years to come, whilst at the same time blocking the job from the likes of de Boer, FSW or Ancelotti if those boys become available.

And I don't buy the "It's not my job to know who in world football suits" line. This is nonsense. If you want Sherwood out you have quite enough knowledge to make at least a reasoned layman's case for a replacement. Nobody is asking for professional, DoF, Anusman levels of knowledge - just a brief outline in fanspeak.

I don't want any of those managers, but I'd take them all if nobody better is available. They're bad options but they're less bad than not changing manager.

I don't buy that they'd block us from better ones becuase Levy's already shown he's happy to switch a perfectly good manager for another.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?

No it was definitely not 6 months you stated because the later parts of our conversation was regarding a 10th placed finish to which you said you would still stick with him because of the reasons stated above. You 100% also spoke about the need of foreign players to adopt to the league and it takes a year or more to settle.

I take this debating **** seriously and remember EVERYTHING mate

I don't think I explained that properly.
I said it would take a season or more. Based on it taking 6 months for players to settle and a minimum of 6 months for a manager to get a system in place - that's the season. It could have taken more to get a settled system in place but we'll never know.

 

[Cochise]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The more I watch us play the more I'm convinced that Sherwood is trying to implement a 442 like they play at Emirates Marketing Project. I think the idea is for the front three (Ade, Kane and Eriksen) to pull the opposition back line apart with the aim to get one of them in possession unmarked and on the turn. Paulinho and Chadli are likely our preferred midfield two atm because they are the only two players we have that are close enough to what TS wants from his central two (players who are forward thinking).

I think this is why we see no signs of a set formation/plan, because Sherwood seems to only have a rough outline on what he wants, the rest is open to the players improvisation. This is partly why we look so random but also why we are unpredictable. With a set formation even when players are having an off day they can fall back on the system but with this 442 if you aren't having a good game then there is no where to hide. There are more pro's and con's here but the biggest restricting factor would be player quality. We can see that without midfielders who are comfortable defending or good at retaining possession, we look brittle defensively.

Anyone else got thoughts on this?

 

[metalgear]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

sherwood doesn't believe in a DM while Emirates Marketing Project have yaya toure.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

sherwood doesn't believe in a DM while Emirates Marketing Project have yaya toure.

I think you'll find that's exactly the kind of DM he does believe in.