Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Wenger rarely changes the way Arsanal line up or play. They always set out to impose their system and style on the opposition. I feel thats what Sherwood wants us to do and thats why he was happy to go in with the same line up and tactics yesterday as against Utd, Stoke, West brom and Southampton.

Exactly what I was about to post.

 

[indianspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Tottenham have been doing that for years since the 80s...just trying to do that alone has got us nowhere. You need a deeper strategy than just 'go out there and attack'

it is what brought Fergie's Utd and Wenger's Arsanal success

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Yeah, ok. The last manager who set out to impose a style and system on the opposition was sacked for not being flexible enough. Approaching a game against Stoke in the same way you do the league leaders is called naivity

That style and system did not suit the players and we were shockingly bad whilst playing it. That's why he got sacked.

What gives you a better chance of getting something out of a game. Picking a system that the players are comfortable with and have played the last 3 games and making some minor tweaks or forcing them into a system that they have not played since AVB left and whilst he was there were no good at anyway?

 

[indianspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Are you surprised? unfortunately this is the biggest reason that I think Levy ****ed up with appointing TS.

With a name/brand, people are far more likely to accept the person's experience/achievements as indicators that they can/will get it right.

Every time TS losses, he will be under the spotlight, questions on naivety, tactics, systems, player choices, subs, because he is an unknown quantity.

Personally, I think it has him doomed to failure .. the inevitable blip in fortune will come .. I expect he's gone in summer.

but its exactly the same for David Moyes who is a known quantity with years and years of top level management experience.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

That style and system did not suit the players and we were shockingly bad whilst playing it. That's why he got sacked.

What gives you a better chance of getting something out of a game. Picking a system that the players are comfortable with and have played the last 3 games and making some minor tweaks or forcing them into a system that they have not played since AVB left and whilst he was there were no good at anyway?

So you're basically saying that all of a sudden our players are totally not capable of playing a 4-5-1 or a 4-3-3 at all? It's as if they had never played that way and won before TS was in charge.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

but its exactly the same for David Moyes who is a known quantity with years and years of top level management experience.

Yes. People think BOTH managers are probably out of their depths

 

[indianspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Yes. People think BOTH managers are probably out of their depths

yeah so lets not use the lack of experience stick to beat Sherwood with

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

So you're basically saying that all of a sudden our players are totally not capable of playing a 4-5-1 or a 4-3-3 at all? It's as if they had never played that way and won before TS was in charge.

Of course I'm not saying that. I'm saying you have to weigh up the pros and cons and TS obviously felt we had a better chance of getting something from the game going with the system that we have done since he's been in charge. Having read his justification for that in his post match comments, watched the game and seen the post match stats, I can understand his decision.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

You're probably right, but with Ade hitting form, i would have liked to see what would have happened if we had started Capoue for Soldado and played him in a holding role in a 451 with Ade up front. Having someone sit back and break up their fluid passing game then using Ade to launch a fast counter would have been the simplest way to threaten imo - we were never going to out play that Arsenal team at their place, especially while they held the numerical advantage. Having a proper DM would have allowed the fullbacks, Dembele and Bentaleb to press more effectively too as we gave them far too much space.

It's a fine question, and as you know from many posts I've made going back to THAT Feb game a few seasons ago, I always believe personally that you have to play 5 across against the goons at the deathstar.

What you're suggesting is along the lines of the more measured, patient football that AVB got caned for, and for better or for worse, we won't see much of that from Sherwood IMO as he has set his short-term stall by playing 'The Tottenham Way'…

I think what we all want is a blend of both. Some nous and some verve…having said that, I still maintain that had we taken any one of the three chances I personally felt were golden, we'd have been bang-in there. Each of their goals came from switch-offs in defence/by defenders. If ever there was a game where we missed Sandro...

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

When we have the likes of Ozil, Cazorla et al in our midfield and a system that developed over more than a decade in which new players fit into the system seamlessly, then we can try that. Until then, we need to run horses for courses.

Cazorla is a fantastic player. The moment they signed him I grimaced. I actually spent some time last night imagining how a player like that could end up with us. He's so good.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Yeah, I'd just hate to see us playing exciting football, finishing top 4 and getting to the QF of the Champions League again. The horror of it all.

Has Tim Sherwood done that in his managerial career mate? I mean, this is the Tim Sherwood -Head Coach thread, right?

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

This is the only upside of Levy not giving a sh!t about what the fans say or think. He won't be swayed by loons on forums writing off TS after every loss.





Seeing it all from block 29.

=D>

 

[Rossi22]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Has Tim Sherwood done that in his managerial career mate? I mean, this is the Tim Sherwood -Head Coach thread, right?

The poster said he fears Sherwood is Harry mk.II, so my post is relevant, no?

 

[Raziel]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

but its exactly the same for David Moyes who is a known quantity with years and years of top level management experience.

No it's not mate, Moyes has got a bye so far from the media/fans, partially because the media is so accustomed being bullied by utd, partially because they all chose a pro Moyes view of the appointment, which in my mind was extremely poor journalism, there wasn't a single major media outlet that published or ran anything that really questioned did Moyes have the qualifications for the job, and, was he really the best appointment that Utd could make? imo, it was a last power gesture by SAF for a buddy (bad judgment call).

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

no he was sacked because his style and system was too defensive and we were struggling to score goals.

tbh, what ive always wanted is my team to play with 2 forwards. Sherwood is giving me that so im very happy. I want to see us attack the opposition with pace and power and i feel thats what Sherwood is trying to deliver. I dont care about possession stats, i just want us to have a go and dare to score goals.

yesterday it didnt quite work, so be it.

Out of interest, why 2 forwards?

If 2 is automatically more exciting than 1, why not 9 strikers? That would be really exciting, right?

 

[SUIYHA]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I seem to remember Emirates Marketing Project playing 4-4-2 against Arsenal a few weeks back and sticking 6 goals past them...

It is risky though. And it does require certain qualities from the players to make it work. Namely:

A strong and fast central midfield who are able to quickly close down the opposition and make up for the fact that they have a man less
Midfielders who can control a pass well and move it around quickly, to make up for the lack of options in the centre
A forward who can drop deep to provide an extra option for a pass and carry the ball forwards
A defence who can handle the odd occasion when an opposition player gets a bit of space to run at them

I personally don't feel we had all of those qualities on show yesterday. If we'd had Sandro, Lamela, Kaboul and Vertonghen fit, things might have been different. Now if they'd been fit and hadn't played, I'd be having a go at Sherwood right now. But I don't think he had many options. With hindsight, it may have been better to start Capoue instead of Soldado and pack the midfield with a tackler in Capoue, a passer in Bentaleb and a dribbler in Dembele who could also press them when he doesn't have the ball too. But then I fear our attack may have been too blunt. And can you imagine the backlash Sherwood would have had if he'd switched from a 4-4-2 that had just won him a game at Old Trafford and taken 10 points from 4 games to the old system and lost the game?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

no he was sacked because his style and system was too defensive and we were struggling to score goals.

tbh, what ive always wanted is my team to play with 2 forwards. Sherwood is giving me that so im very happy. I want to see us attack the opposition with pace and power and i feel thats what Sherwood is trying to deliver. I dont care about possession stats, i just want us to have a go and dare to score goals.

yesterday it didnt quite work, so be it.

I'm partly in agreement with you and partly not

I don't care if it's 2 strikers or none - as long as it's effective results driven football that has an element of entertainment

Likewise I look at yesterday and thought meh.... It didn't work but the nano yanks was you could predict before the game that they would effectively play with 6 midfielders and no real forward

What was annoying for me as someone who paid the £63 to go was the actual casual nature of our play... Our passing stats must have been poor as we gave the ball away to their defence a lot and that's got nothing to do with the system, it was purely poor technique and arguable tiredness after the frequency if games we have had.

What arsenal did do yesterday was bring on string substitutions... Again I don't get why TS didn't make more subs if we were tiered which was one of his defences against the performance

But I'm happy to just let TS carry on as he is doing as we are looking better and this week with no mid week games will be a bonus and we also,now have some weekend frees which is of benefit when trying to implement a new system... That breathing space in three weeks time will be great if we can take the squad off to sunnier climes and get them assimilated in new ways of working

 

[onlyme]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Out of interest, why 2 forwards?

If 2 is automatically more exciting than 1, why not 9 strikers? That would be really exciting, right?

I think you are repeating yourself.

How about 9 defenders? We surely would never lose.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think you are repeating yourself.

How about 9 defenders? We surely would never lose.

I'm not, and that wasn't the question.

 

[onlyme]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I'm not, and that wasn't the question.

You are, and it was.