The Elephant On The Forum

[billyiddo]

I don't buy this 'cannon fodder' argument you put forward Jumpers - imv barring two or three of the bottom sides most teams in the league are stronger than they have been for a few seasons now - only Crystal Palace look like being anything close to whipping boys at this point and even they haven't done too badly so far - we've improved (hopefully) better than most meaning we should be picking up more points as a result .

If i was being cynical id say you're just trying to get your arguments in early so you can devalue anything Redknapps successor may achieve.

 

[FatBloke]

Bill Nich was an innovator. Yes he built on what he'd learnt playing under Arthur Rowe a decade before, but he wasn't any sort of traditionalist.

Considering how **** our recent history has been (10 years of freefall in the 90s, followed by 10 years of incremental repairs in the 00s), I'm really pleased AVB is ripping everything up and starting again. Our core/culture was rotten.

Football does progress, and 'tippy-tappy fragile' Spurs doesn't suit this time. Nor does Redknapp's 2 or 3 great players 'express yourself and we'll outscore our opponents' approach.

Look how Germany have adapted by spending a decade adding technique to their traditional power (and see how England are struggling because they didn't do the same). Look how Brazil have done completely the opposite and added power to their technique (compared to Spain, who are arguably being left behind; though their high-tempo pressing does compensate). Actually us having Brazil's CM is a sign of how we are on the same journey.

Yes we are big and powerful now. But we also play with the ball and have a lot of possession. I really enjoy watching us play - so controlled, disciplined, technical. We almost play with our opponents, waiting for a time to pick them off.

We've had wonderful maverick players to watch over the last 20 years - Gascoigne, Ginola, Berbatov, van der Vaart, Bale. But this is the best Spurs team I've ever seen by some considerably distance, and by far the best time to be a fan.

This =D>

I'm not old enough to remember the Bill Nick days, but it seems to me as though that style of play is a museum piece. In the modern game, the opposition is considerably bigger, faster and fitter than they were even 20 years ago, with game plans and pre-match preparation far in excess of anything in the 60s and 70s. Obviously there's no way to be sure, but I just suspect that even the great Tottenham sides of the past would have been blitzed by today's Stoke team. But that's a bit of a straw man.

Who's the best footballing side at the moment? Barcelona perhaps, or Dortmund, or even Swansea. But all these teams press effectively, and the work rate of even the most delightfully skilled players has to be right up there. There's no place for Le Tiss in the modern game, I'm afraid. Even Hoddle and Gazza would have had to shape up and FRAAB!

I think AVB is building a quality modern passing side -- yes, there's plenty of beef, but even the muscle (Dembro, Capoue, Kaboul, Chadli) can lay on a decent pass or three.

 

[indianspur]

even Bill Nick's greatest side had the big bustling Bobby Smith as his main centre forward......

The wearer of the No 9 shirt through Tottenham's glory, glory days was hewn from the oak-tree of the classic English centre forward.

If Mister Smith couldn't get a clean run at the ball he simply went through the largest of defenders to bludgeon in the goals.

Barrel-chested, thick set and heavy muscled, he was also one of the sharpest tools in the penalty box.

Thus, he was not only the perfect, weight-taking foil for that silkiest of all English goalscorers, Jimmy Greaves, but a prolific striker on his own account.

That ledger was filled with 218 goals in 376 League appearances for Chelsea, Spurs and Brighton.

He also averaged almost a goal a game for England - 13 in 15 - including two against Scotland in the landmark 9-3 victory at Wembley in 1961.

In hindsight that seems a meagre ration of caps for the Yorkshireman who scored 33 times for Bill Nicholson's historic Double-winning Spurs team of 1960-61, including one in the FA Cup final.

A year later, he scored again at Wembley when they retained the Cup. Three years earlier, Smith had equalled Ted Harper's Spurs record of 36 goals in a season.

Those feats were due as much to his extraordinary lightness of touch for a centre forward for whom the term battering-ram might have been invented.

Through it all, he lived life to the rumbustious full and after many a match at White Hart Lane it was drinks all round on Smudger at the pub near a corner of the ground.

A part of the grand old game of football as it used to be has gone with him and it is not only in north London that a twinge of sadness will be felt. Bobby Smith dead?

We can't even remember him getting hurt. It was always the opposing defenders who limped away from encounters of his heroic kind.

They used to hate playing against him. Now they, too, will mourn his passing at the age of 77.

..................

im sure the that great team could mix it up when they needed to......to become champions you need to be able to successfully combat all types of opponents

 

[braineclipse]

I don't buy this 'cannon fodder' argument you put forward Jumpers - imv barring two or three of the bottom sides most teams in the league are stronger than they have been for a few seasons now - only Crystal Palace look like being anything close to whipping boys at this point and even they haven't done too badly so far - we've improved (hopefully) better than most meaning we should be picking up more points as a result .

If i was being cynical id say you're just trying to get your arguments in early so you can devalue anything Redknapps successor may achieve.

Agreed with your initial point. The financial advantage in the PL is so big that even mid table and lower half table teams are able to pick up players that would otherwise be playing at top half or even close to top clubs in other strong leagues.

Look at clubs like Southampton, Cardiff and Swansea as quick examples.

Southampton signed Wanyama, Lovren and Osvaldo this summer. Wanyama was reportedly followed by some pretty big clubs. Lovren has 19 games for Boznia at 24 and was a regular starter for Lyon from what I know. Osvaldo obviously a high profile signing from Roma, 9 caps from Italy.

Cardiff signed Caulker from us, we know he's a good player. They also signed Gary Medel, capped 52 times for Chile at 26 he was a first choice player for Sevilla in La Liga until signed by Cardiff. They also picked up the highly rated young Andreas Cornelius for around £7m.

Swansea were able to pick up Wilfried Bony, Shelvey and that seemingly very good Spanish midfielder Canas.

Most of these players are players that even just a couple of years back wouldn't have signed for a lower half PL side, never mind a newly promoted one like Cardiff. Before we swooped in Cardiff were on the verge of signing Capoue too! Capoue! That's the kind of financial muscle even small PL sides have. Sunderland have been disastrous so far this season, but they were able to sign Giaccherini this summer who was getting regular football for Italy in the Confederations Cup this summer.

Most of these sides are very tough in deed. As have been seen with the results too, Cardiff beating City. Southampton beating and outplaying Liverpool at Anfield and obviously Swansea beating Valencia in the EL as examples already this early in the season.

Cannon fodder? Nah...

 

[Jordinho]

I think we need to face the fact we have a squad good enough to challenge City and Chelsea.

 

[Naughton16]

AVB is getting quite irritable in his post-match press conferences these days.

edit. wrong thread

 

[onlyme]

Or last 38 games in the PL: WWLWLLLWWWLWDWWWDDDWWWWLLWDWDWDWWWWLWW

23 - 7 - 8

76 points. Two points per game.

Since New Years (23 games): WDDDWWWWLLWDWDWDWWWWLWW

14 - 6 - 3

48 points. 2,08 points per game. Adds up to 79 points a season.

Should be enough for third/fourth if we keep it up. But we need to be even more clinical to win it.

I have posted on numerous occasions that we have been in comfortable top 3 form for a long time so it is not a major step up to top 2.

AVB has said himself he does not expect us to win the EPL because we do not have lots of players who have done it before. Fergie famously and accurately described the last few games as "squeaky bum time."

Can we overcome history and probability?

Damn right we can!!!!

 

[onlyme]

I wish people would not keep posting that photo.

 

[onlyme]

How can Eriksen have been a panic purchase when Willian wasn't even available for most of the window? He can't have been our first choice because Anzhi only decided to sell halfway during the window and he was gone soon after.

Anyone for poker? Did anybody watch the American TV show last night where they bid for storage units?

Remember Hoddle and Ricketts?

 

[Tinneth]

If you could end the league now and everyone finish in the position they are now.. would anyone do it or would they let the league play out? Baring in mind the top 4 would be Arsenal, Spurs, Emirates Marketing Project, Chelsea..

 

[onlyme]

If you could end the league now and everyone finish in the position they are now.. would anyone do it or would they let the league play out? Baring in mind the top 4 would be Arsenal, Spurs, Emirates Marketing Project, Chelsea..

Whaaattttt!

No flipping way.

 

[THFC6061]

Hard to believe it, but Spurs have now scored twenty times more goals this season than we've conceded.

 

[Superted]

If we don't win SOMETHING in the next 2 or 3 seasons, I will consider AVB's tenure an abject failure. Hell, even Liverpool won the League Cup under Dalglish v2.0.

None of this settle for top 4 bull****. Silverware please.

 

[metalgear]

AVB is getting quite irritable in his post-match press conferences these days.

edit. wrong thread

or wrong forum

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

I don't buy this 'cannon fodder' argument you put forward Jumpers - imv barring two or three of the bottom sides most teams in the league are stronger than they have been for a few seasons now - only Crystal Palace look like being anything close to whipping boys at this point and even they haven't done too badly so far - we've improved (hopefully) better than most meaning we should be picking up more points as a result .

If i was being cynical id say you're just trying to get your arguments in early so you can devalue anything Redknapps successor may achieve.

I'd say we have the top six. Then after that you have Everton, Swansea and maybe Saudi Sportswashing Machine if they get their act together. Fulham and Southampton have the quality where they should be safe, but I wouldn't guarantee it. I think 7th to last in the Premiership this season is anyone's guess and whilst history tells us it's likely that at least two of the promoted teams will go down again I wouldn't be shocked if all three stayed up because the gap between 20th and 7th in terms of team quality is smaller than it has been for years. Sadly the gap between 7th and 6th is also larger than it has been for a long time, but hopefully we'll get a surprise team this season that exceeds expectations, punches above their weight and mixes it up with the top six.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

How can it have been a panic purchase when Willian wasn't even available for most of the window? He can't have been our first choice because anzhi only decided to sell halfway during the window and he was gone soon after.

Because if Willian hadn't fallen through, we wouldn't have purchased Eriksen. I don't think Eriksen is an AVB "style" player at all, but I am hoping that he'll play so well that AVB will have no choice but to keep picking him.

 

[betha]

Because if Willian hadn't fallen through, we wouldn't have purchased Eriksen. I don't think Eriksen is an AVB "style" player at all, but I am hoping that he'll play so well that AVB will have no choice but to keep picking him.

One of the tings we got plenty of good press for during the summer is how we did our business and that we had a clear cut plan for doing it.

So, we had plenty of options, and simply went through our list until we got one of the ones we wanted.

Strikers:
1. Benteke
2. Villa
3. Soldado

left sided wingers:
1. Bernard
2. Chadli

central defenders:
1. Chiriches
2. ....

Central midfielders.
1. Paulinho
2. Capoue
3. ....

etc.
Then of course, when someone suddenly gets available, like Willian we move for them, even if they're not on the list (chance is they are anyway, if not on the "these we think we could get list"). And of course, there are plans if someone leaves, like Bale, which made us go and buy Lamela for instance.

 

[braineclipse]

Because if Willian hadn't fallen through, we wouldn't have purchased Eriksen. I don't think Eriksen is an AVB "style" player at all, but I am hoping that he'll play so well that AVB will have no choice but to keep picking him.

What is an AVB "style" player to you?

What is it that differentiates Willian from Eriksen that makes him an AVB style player to you?

How does Lamela fit into this style? What is so different with him compared to Eriksen? Or how about Soldado? And Holtby?

 

[Gutter Boy]

Because if Willian hadn't fallen through, we wouldn't have purchased Eriksen. I don't think Eriksen is an AVB "style" player at all, but I am hoping that he'll play so well that AVB will have no choice but to keep picking him.

The only thing Eriksen doesn't fit AVB's style of player on is that he's small. IIRC only Eriksen, Holtby and Soldado of AVB's 14 signings have been under 6'.

But he's technical, hardworking, versatile, young and likes to have the ball - all things that make him very much an AVB style player.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

What is an AVB "style" player to you?

What is it that differentiates Willian from Eriksen that makes him an AVB style player to you?

How does Lamela fit into this style? What is so different with him compared to Eriksen? Or how about Soldado? And Holtby?

For central midfield, AVB likes big strong athletic players. I have no doubt that although we currently play with a number 10, that this is purely for transition and that AVB will be looking to remove the need for a number 10 sooner rather than later.

Lamela fits in with the style nicely, as AVB likes inverted wide men who will chip in with plenty of goals.