ledley's knee injections
Sean Davis
Wrong decision then, wrong decision now.
Said this back at the time too.
Said this back at the time too.
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The decision to fire AVB
- Thread starter Johnny Ray
- Start date
Ultimately, Tim has done no better overall. We can squabble over a point here and there, or more goals scored. But the football remains diabolical. So in that case the decision looks to be a **** one as we have spent money to get rid of him, paid Sherwood more, and now have to get rid of him. Plus the squad's confidence is shot to pieces.
Hindsight is of course a wonderful thing.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
And honestly under AVB the football really wasn't THAT bad. In some, select games, sure it was. But the whole turgid idea got blown way out of proportion.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Because he'd had to oversee the loss of our 4 world class players (Modric, vdV, King and Bale) and overhaul the creaking squad that Redknapp had left him due to his short-termist approach.
And that all happened in 15 months.
And he largely maintained our position in that time and would soon have been ready to start pushing on again.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
would love to no the origins of that saying.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Yeah, people were moaning because we were keeping possession and dictating tempo.
Now we run around like headless chickens and hoof long balls to Ade.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
The masses were clapping their hearts out when we lost to West Ham because we were being more direct, but I think this style is just as ugly. Long balls to Ade, getting it forward quickly, knocking it into the channel. It's rubbish.
I don't think it is actually Sherwood's aim to play that way, but I think he under-estimated how difficult the task was to get the squad doing what he wanted, and he now probably appreciates the value of what AVB was doing, giving the team a structure and a platform to build off of (I would hope).
SUIYHA
Scott Parker
AVB never lost the support of his players (except Adebayor). But he had to go. He should never have been appointed. Regardless of transfer policy, the tactical decisions using the players he DID have available to him were completely incompetent. Baldini didn't force him to drop Eriksen, start games with three defensive midfielders who can't pass the ball or play a high line with slow defenders against fast attackers.
The Spurs team he inherited was the best I'd ever seen. It's not his fault he lost certain players, but when you consider he had the likes of Modric, Van Der Vaart, Bale, Kranjcar and Huddlestone who had entertained us for the last few years with attractive, attacking, passing football, and he sold them all and replaced them with players with vastly inferior technical ability, it's not hard to see where things went wrong.
The Spurs team he inherited was the best I'd ever seen. It's not his fault he lost certain players, but when you consider he had the likes of Modric, Van Der Vaart, Bale, Kranjcar and Huddlestone who had entertained us for the last few years with attractive, attacking, passing football, and he sold them all and replaced them with players with vastly inferior technical ability, it's not hard to see where things went wrong.
but you're blaming AVB for those players being sold?
VdV i can agree with but the others he has had to overcome their losses as they were out of his control - someone using their transfers against him is quite strange to see.
replacements brought in were not up to scratch last summer but iirc AVB was always of the someone else buys the players/iwork with them train of thought.
Van der Vaart world class? I'll never understand why so many seem to believe this. He was an average player, with flashes of quality.
He waltzed around, looking as if he was working hard, like that striker at school who occassionally makes a sliding challenge, but couldn't even complete a game.
He played in the hole, yet was something like 13th in the assist chart, and 13th in the goalscoring chart - and did nothing else. Shocking how a few good goals clouds so many people's opinions.
To claim AVB had to address the loss of this 'world class' player is nonsense. If he wanted him to stay, he would have stayed - or sold for a vastly inflated price. We don't let players go easily, clearly.
He waltzed around, looking as if he was working hard, like that striker at school who occassionally makes a sliding challenge, but couldn't even complete a game.
He played in the hole, yet was something like 13th in the assist chart, and 13th in the goalscoring chart - and did nothing else. Shocking how a few good goals clouds so many people's opinions.
To claim AVB had to address the loss of this 'world class' player is nonsense. If he wanted him to stay, he would have stayed - or sold for a vastly inflated price. We don't let players go easily, clearly.
Parklaner81
Steve Hodge
The decision was correct. How things were handled from immediately after the decision to date have been extremely poor.
superfaisty
Nico Claesen
I hate to say it, but as Chancer put it AVB's position had become untenable, we weren't playing well, we'd stopped scoring goals the team were bereft of any creativity and ideas. timing wasn't great, but that's spurs for you.
Don't get me wrong Tim did come in with a much easier run of games, but as we've seen of late the teams form has markedly declined, albeit against some pretty tasty teams - Emirates Marketing Project Chelsea Benfica are top top sides, and so are Arsenal. Waht's hurt more is the Norwich result, while no where near as bad as the spammers result, jsut shows its not as much the manager as the players.
My biggest worry is given what has happened, and happening right now, Levy should have given the job to one G Hoddle - spurs through and through and an experienced manager. I didn't want him personally at the time but Tim's rawness / naivety as the current manager isn't working for me or the team. Levy would still never sanction it but Hod would have been a decent stand in until LVG or whoever took over in the summer after the world cup.
So hiindsight - Yes to get rid of AVB, no to Tim, should've been yes to the hand of GHod.
Don't get me wrong Tim did come in with a much easier run of games, but as we've seen of late the teams form has markedly declined, albeit against some pretty tasty teams - Emirates Marketing Project Chelsea Benfica are top top sides, and so are Arsenal. Waht's hurt more is the Norwich result, while no where near as bad as the spammers result, jsut shows its not as much the manager as the players.
My biggest worry is given what has happened, and happening right now, Levy should have given the job to one G Hoddle - spurs through and through and an experienced manager. I didn't want him personally at the time but Tim's rawness / naivety as the current manager isn't working for me or the team. Levy would still never sanction it but Hod would have been a decent stand in until LVG or whoever took over in the summer after the world cup.
So hiindsight - Yes to get rid of AVB, no to Tim, should've been yes to the hand of GHod.
Rossi22
Pedro Mendes
I'd like someone to tell me what evidence there is to suggest we'd currently be doing better if AVB were still in charge?
In the league we had 27 points from 16 games, since then we've taken 26 from 13. So was AVB's average suddenly going to improve over those next 13 games? But, but, we wouldn't have been knocked out of the cup against West Ham I hear you all say. On what basis is that again? Not the 0-3 loss to them a few weeks earlier I presume. AVB would've seen us past Arsenal at the Emirates though, I mean his previous couple of games there went well right? P2 L2 GF 2 GA 6. He'd currently be seeing us through against Benfica wouldn't he, afterall it's not like he was knocked out of the Europa the previous season to a lesser side beginning with B.
In the league we had 27 points from 16 games, since then we've taken 26 from 13. So was AVB's average suddenly going to improve over those next 13 games? But, but, we wouldn't have been knocked out of the cup against West Ham I hear you all say. On what basis is that again? Not the 0-3 loss to them a few weeks earlier I presume. AVB would've seen us past Arsenal at the Emirates though, I mean his previous couple of games there went well right? P2 L2 GF 2 GA 6. He'd currently be seeing us through against Benfica wouldn't he, afterall it's not like he was knocked out of the Europa the previous season to a lesser side beginning with B.
a spur from swansea
Naybet
Agree appointing AVB was the mistake.... he be a good manager in five/ten years time but not now...........should have kept harry on for another two years then harry would have gone anyway due to his age and health.....in the meantime the club could have looked around and done a Swansea and appointed someone that fits with the style of play that the club plays not the other way around,appointing a manager that totally reforms a style of play that took us to two top four positions and making us play a different style and then getting someone who has only been here for less than a year(Baldini) an open cheque book in obtaining a mish mash of players just causes confusion on every level
On saying that even though we don't know the politics on his sacking or his mental being at the time,perhaps we should have kept him on after the Liverpool game,with a club statement saying that they will support AVB but are aware that results need to improve etc etc,they could have gone into the January market, got a left back and a proper winger even on loan to give the side a bit more stability.
I don't think we be worse off than we are now to be honest,even if we finish seventh we still be in the europa cup next year.
On saying that even though we don't know the politics on his sacking or his mental being at the time,perhaps we should have kept him on after the Liverpool game,with a club statement saying that they will support AVB but are aware that results need to improve etc etc,they could have gone into the January market, got a left back and a proper winger even on loan to give the side a bit more stability.
I don't think we be worse off than we are now to be honest,even if we finish seventh we still be in the europa cup next year.
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SUIYHA
Scott Parker
My point is, the team he inherited was full of top technical footballers. Yes he wanted Moutinho and didn't get him, but the type of player AVB preferred was big, fast, strong players with a good work rate, instead of those who can pass and control a football. In some lines of work, hard work comes above talent. Not in football. AVB preferred Dempsey to Van Der Vaart. Paulinho and Capoue to Huddlestone. Dembele to Eriksen or Holtby. Sigurdsson to Kranjcar. Physical attributes over footballing ones. He was the complete opposite of Hoddle - who built his team around Sheringham, Poyet, Redknapp, Anderton and Ziege - all very good technical players but no pace or aggression about them.
At the end of the day, you need "tekkers" in your side. If you don't, you can grind out results but you'll never be a top team. And whilst AVB didn't have full control over the transfers, if this is what we're lacking then you make damn sure you scream your ****ing ******** off in transfer meetings to get players like that, and when you do have limited amounts of them you make sure that you get Eriksen and Holtby on the pitch at the same time instead of making it one or the other or neither, and you don't unnecessarily sell players that do fit this mould before your Director of Football has even come in.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Timmeh's run of games have been much easier than AVB's.
AVB was also working to a plan - we were always going to settle and push on in the second half of the season, where now we are in freefall.
The thing is AVB would have been out of our league in a few years' time.
Just as with our players, we can never get a top manager at his peak. If we want the highest calibre, we either have to go for prospects on their way up (AVB) or those just entering the twilight of their careers (LVG). Otherwise it's just substandard journeymen, because we'll never be able to attract a Guardiola, Mourinho or Klopp.
Rossi22
Pedro Mendes
All speculation and conjecture.
chancer
Gudni Bergsson
So why didn't he communicate that to Levy and Baldini in the aftermath of the Liverpool humiliation? Why not whip out one of his famous presentations and explain where the team was going? For some reason he was unable or unwilling to do that.
Communication, interpersonal skills and maturity are AVB's weaknesses. Without those, all the talent in the world won't bring you success in a collaborative endeavour like a football club. I'd even go so far as to say those things are more important than chalkboard smarts. Brian Clough, SAF, Jose and several of the Liverpool boot-room managers are examples of that.
